War in the Pacific Release thread

[BillRunacre]

Hi

Shell replenishment can be set either:

using the Min Shells setting
using Shell Production tech, as this automatically increases the shell supply by 1 per turn per level.

Hopefully that explains what you're after?

[Elessar2]

Hopefully that explains what you're after?

It does, as in I didn't think there were any other factors involved. Note that the WW2 engines/vanilla scenarios don't have Shell Production. I have 2 levels, you have 1, but I simply halved the upgrade increments from 1 to 1/2 for all relevant fields, but didn't change anything from the defaults for the shells.

Yeah, I just tested it, shot the entire clip with the Japanese arty in China, next turn it has 3 again.

Which means this is a bug in the core game engine, unless I am missing something VERY obvious. I just checked my scenarios against vanilla's, and both the core arty stats and the arty tech are the same for all relevant shell fields.

[El_Condoro]

Was it Field Artillery (#UNIT_ID= 17)? If so, that gets 2 shells per turn - its MIN and MAX (Manual p. 61).

[BillRunacre]

Hopefully that explains what you're after?

It does, as in I didn't think there were any other factors involved. Note that the WW2 engines/vanilla scenarios don't have Shell Production. I have 2 levels, you have 1, but I simply halved the upgrade increments from 1 to 1/2 for all relevant fields, but didn't change anything from the defaults for the shells.

Yeah, I just tested it, shot the entire clip with the Japanese arty in China, next turn it has 3 again.

Which means this is a bug in the core game engine, unless I am missing something VERY obvious. I just checked my scenarios against vanilla's, and both the core arty stats and the arty tech are the same for all relevant shell fields.

I'm not sure I fully understand the issue, can you explain it from scratch please?

[Elessar2]

Yeah, he was reporting that the Japanese HEAVY Artillery was getting all its shells replenished each turn, something I confirmed on my end, but something that nobody else had reported in prior scenario builds. I checked both my settings as well as your vanilla settings, they each had 1 for Min and 3 for Max shells. Checked Arty tech, likewise neither vanilla nor mine has any changes to the Shell settings.

I am now going through all of the right-hand techs to see if anything got snuck in on the Automatic Upgrades...nope. Which means either (a) I am misunderstanding what the editor is telling me, (b) there is some other Shell setting somewhere that I don't know about, or (c) there is a bug in the core game code, which might have snuck in during a recent patch. I don't think this has been reported in any of the vanilla scenarios post the recent patch note.

Crazy thought-is Normalization to blame, tricks the engine into thinking "extra" turns were in between the actual turns, and thus fully restocked the guns?

[OldCrowBalthazor]

@Elessar
I have on going 3 different SC MP matches and 1 test.
WiE 1943 Kursk Scenario.
ACW 1846 Mexican War Scenario.
WW1 1916 Lion of Africa Scenario.
WW1 Shadow of the Czar revamp Test.

All the shell replacements are working as intended with these at least.

Don't know about WaW. Don't know if this helps or not.
Haven't heard anything amiss from my opponents either.

[El_Condoro]

The Shell Production research slot that you are using for Aircraft Production must have a hard-coded shell addition in it. If you reduce Aircraft Production to zero, artillery replenishes as it should.

[Elessar2]

There ya go. Devs I think that is on your end, if El_Condoro is right, esp. if that isn't even a parameter in the WW2 games. Note Japan now has 2 levels in that tech in my latest build.

[El_Condoro]

I can confirm that this is the cause. I have edited your campaign and the Japanese heavy artillery in China acts as it should when Aircraft Production is zero. I have also made changes in my own Orb and Crown campaign as I have a couple of gunpowder using units in it - if #RESEARCH_ID= 21 (Gunpowder in my game, Aircraft Production in yours, and Shell Production in vanilla) has any levels, they are added to the shells MIN/MAX.

So, if at Level 2, as in your campaign, each turn the artillery gets 3 ammo (1 for normal and 2 for each level of research). You can see this if you increase the MAX to 10 - every turn it will gain 3 ammo, instead of 1.

[BillRunacre]

The Shell Production research slot that you are using for Aircraft Production must have a hard-coded shell addition in it. If you reduce Aircraft Production to zero, artillery replenishes as it should.

This is correct, it is a hard coded shell increase. So it may be best to use a different tech, or keep min/max shells the same.

[Elessar2]

Hmm, seems like it could be made soft coded in the editor, since there appears to be space above Min Shells and Max Shells for Shells Reload or such. Kind of a shame to have to ignore a useful tech slot just because the WWII titles have this hidden setting that isn't even used.

[El_Condoro]

The other one just to be aware of is that the only slot for Amphibious Warfare is the one that it now occupies (19). I spent ages trying to work out why my transports weren't increasing when I moved the slot. This one (21) makes 2 that modders need to know about.

[Elessar2]

A bit mortified over these two fixes, which are actually reversions...

Before the recent updates I had gone in after some feedback and equalized stats between countries. I thought I had only done it with air units (the feedback involved air unit ranges), but apparently in a braindead moment I did it for ships as well.

This means that the Yamatos and Montanas only have the naval attack/defense stats that the Lions (UK Dreadnought slot) have (6's), and the Iowas the British battlecruiser stats (4's) and not the same ones that the Lions have. [since they were effectively equivalent and both a bit inferior in guns and armor to the aforementioned heavies]

So:

WitP and NK updates .951
---------------------------------
Japanese and American Dreadnoughts have their proper surface naval ratings (7 for Naval and Transport attack and defense), and American Fast Battleships have 6 for those same 4 stats.

[jjdenver]

What is the state of this one? I don't care for the official SC Pacific release as it's too easy to knock out China (my view is that historically the large population and difficult geography made it too difficult for Japan to advance deep into China just as it was too tough for Germany to advance and maintain their forces at Stalingrad and beyond in USSR with long beleaguered supply lines and huge population to control). Anyway, is this one still active and working? How is the war in China? Japan rolls it over in a few years or it's a sticky quagmire as it was historically for Japan?

[OldCrowBalthazor]

What is the state of this one? I don't care for the official SC Pacific release as it's too easy to knock out China (my view is that historically the large population and difficult geography made it too difficult for Japan to advance deep into China just as it was too tough for Germany to advance and maintain their forces at Stalingrad and beyond in USSR with long beleaguered supply lines and huge population to control). Anyway, is this one still active and working? How is the war in China? Japan rolls it over in a few years or it's a sticky quagmire as it was historically for Japan?

Latest version works. It's only intended for multi-player however. Theres no AI scripting thats mod specific. In my experience playing this as the Japanese multiple times vs Elessar, China is a real sticky quagmire. Sticky enough that's best not trying to go too deep in. You can try, but it takes all of Japan's meager resources to achieve anything meaningful. It's the USA that needs trimming.
Also...yes agree about China in the new Pacific game. At least it was repeatedly strengthen during the Beta tests. It was a stroll in the park with pre-release versions. Now it can put up a fight, at least in multi-player.

[BillRunacre]

What is the state of this one? I don't care for the official SC Pacific release as it's too easy to knock out China (my view is that historically the large population and difficult geography made it too difficult for Japan to advance deep into China just as it was too tough for Germany to advance and maintain their forces at Stalingrad and beyond in USSR with long beleaguered supply lines and huge population to control). Anyway, is this one still active and working? How is the war in China? Japan rolls it over in a few years or it's a sticky quagmire as it was historically for Japan?

Hi

In the official release, is it in PBEM or against the Allied AI that you have found China to be too weak?

It may be something easily fixable and therefore everyone could benefit from a change in a patch.

Ideally it is perhaps best to discuss this in the official Pacific forum rather than here:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... hp?f=11997

[Elessar2]

I (original mod maker) will have to call in one of my beta-testers over here, since he is apparently working on converting it to the Pacific engine. Meanhoo I've been hip-deep in totally revamping my Europe map over the last month or so, and waiting for the official patch to finally come out so I can begin beta-testing (with a small group of private testers).

[Nginear]

I'm working on porting this map to the Pacific engine, with airfields added. I would stop short of saying it's "completely different," but it is definitely different.
Airfields, 10% of geography, units, and tech are all different. Feinder and I have played Pacific and this map, and Elessar's mod was way more fun, mostly because of more units (Japan only has 8 air units in Pacific). In my rework, airfields add a second strike/intercept ability to air units.
Ultimately, I would like to combine the "extras" of the dev's Pacific with this map.

It's almost to a "playable" state. I just finished the convoys. I just have to add existing units to the map and production que.

[jjdenver]

I'm working on porting this map to the Pacific engine, with airfields added. I would stop short of saying it's "completely different," but it is definitely different.
Airfields, 10% of geography, units, and tech are all different. Feinder and I have played Pacific and this map, and Elessar's mod was way more fun, mostly because of more units (Japan only has 8 air units in Pacific). In my rework, airfields add a second strike/intercept ability to air units.
Ultimately, I would like to combine the "extras" of the dev's Pacific with this map.

It's almost to a "playable" state. I just finished the convoys. I just have to add existing units to the map and production que.

Fantastic and exciting. Ty for the update.

[Nginear]

Fantastic and exciting. Ty for the update.

I would also like to add that my goal is to up the realism, within the limits of the engine. Supply was a huge issue in the ocean; to mimick this I deleted most ports. Therefore, ports are an extremely valuable resource- they are only located (with some exceptions) where ships historically refueled. This will work great with the new Naval Construction feature too. With ports only on critical islands, you have to be careful what units are sent where and watch your ships' supply.
For even more added realism and difficulty, I have designed it so that major ports represent dockyards (and of course hisorically placed). If you want to repair a ship, then you can house rule large ships only repaired at major ports (IRL most ships had to travel back to the homeland for all but emergency repairs).