Sand in the Vaseline - Wobbly vs PzB

[Thayne]

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[Hornblower]

ORIGINAL: wobbly

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Hornblower: Yes, I would say I have been a little unlucky but I can't take too much from PzB - he has run a masterful campaign. The balance is very difficult to get right, I still get caught out. Basically you must realise that your position is untenable and start retreating from a location where the forts are not able to equalise your shortfall in men. If you don't retreat in time your troops will not be able to conduct a coherent defense behind the next set of forts.

agreed. he has run an impressive game so far. and i agree with your above comment, that to hold out to long at place "A" will mean that you can't hold out at all at "B"... Time, if not space, is on your side. Perhaps the silver lining is that with his focus on the east that he may have overlooked something cruitial in the west.

[mlees]

Great AAR! I (as Allied player) would have suffered severe mental distress long ago![:'(]

Good to see you fighting on. What is the total VP situation? How close is PzB to Autovictory? I was just wondering if conquering China, India, and USSR would give the Japanese player enough VP's to get an auto-win...

[ElvisDaKing]

Wobbly,
I join my fellows to congratulate you for your AAR, which I am reading with a high interest, and for your fierce fight against your opponent.[&o]
Well, I am not a WITP master tactician, but I understand that your defense is mainly based on your fort level. Japanese did not bring them down because of their disruption, so :
Should you bomb the ground units to keep a high level of disruption and so reduce their ability to destroy your fortification.
I know you don't have plenty of planes, but you will bring him to LRCAP his troops from distant airbase, decreasing his capability to escort his bombers and increasing his ops losses....
Just an idea..

[wobbly]

What an awful turn. My bombers that I had moved into Calcutta to attack his airfields at Chandpur don't fly but his bombers based at Chandpur do and they are aimed at Calcutta. They of course flatten my bombes still sitting in their redoubts! He also start bombarding Columbo. My fighter bombers get spanked at Lae.

An awful turn. I loose 50 aircraft! He had been complaining about his bombers not flying, so I thought I would move bombers in to try and take advantage of this by hitting them on the ground. Murphy - that snake in the grass that dogs me at every turn - then does exactly the same thing to me while he bombs the airfield I am based at. I loose 10 fulmars that were CAPing the base - he bought 20 oscars and 40 zeros - and then hit the 3 sqds of Beuforts and 1 sqd of Blenheim IVs I had on the ground. 10 of each are smashed and the rest are damaged - so now of course I cannot move the bloody things out and his continued raids will keep smashing the ACs gaining him points. You get one piece of bad luck and then pay an pay an pay for it. If it wasn't the RAF bombers damaged on attacks out of Tarakan, just before it was invaded; it was the P-40s based at Balikpapan caught there by the next invasion; or the notorious dauntlesses bombarded with split second timing in Batavia.

Well I go back to hiding the naval bombers in the Hinterland - they are only good for targets anyway. I know he reconned Diamond Harbour - that was the location of all my other bombers - so I am not leaving them there, instead they go to Jamshedpur. Calcutta is home to all the Hurricanes, Kittyhawks and Warhawks. He has been bombing with his sallies at 6000 feet every time so I put my P-40s at 7000 - I can afford to loose the aussie and Yank pilots more than I can afford to loose the hurricanes: which are flying at 15K feet. My bombers at Jamshedpur are targeting the ground forces and are escorted by some Mohawks.

I lost the KB for a turn there and they reappear south of Ceylon - and just out of range of one of my retreating and wounded AKs. The tankers waiting on a location for the KB (in the north) put on full steam and head south. Hermes and her task force are all but out of fuel. A tanker loading fuel in Broome has 4000 units of fuel aboard and will load for one more turn before heading north.

My fighter-bombers at PM were heavily intercepted by has Lae-based zeroes this turn. I have had the Kittyhawks at PM on escort - as well as the Warhawks in turns before - neither will escort the fighter-bombers on the naval attack mission??? Why is this??

All of the pieces in the two South Pacific operations are moving into position. I updated the patch to ver 1.4 and whether that has anything to do with things or not but I now have 4700 japs located at Tarawa. This feels far more realistic. It also should not be enough to hold the Americal Division plus another RCT a tank Brigade and engineers. What I have to worry about - and what PzB has admited to having ready - is the fast react group he has loaded with elite small naval groups. I do have the carriers and they will have to move such that they get in the way of this incoming reinforcement. This turn he noticed subs I have been loacating around some of the Islands in the Gilberts - more red herrings! I cannot move just yet - even if units are almost in position for Nighthawk (Tarawa invasion) because Whiskey needs to start very quickly after nighthawk starts. I hope to have some of these response units out of position for the main invasion. I am also looking to add a part to Whiskey: a sortie of surface ships to Lunga. I want his naval bombers to have a crack through the tomahawks and wildcats. Hopefully I can cull numbers before I attack Rabaul.

Hornblower: that is exactly it - knowing when a location is untenable AND knowing how long it will take your troops to retreat from the hex where the action is taking place. I am getting better - but as this turn will show you I am no master. Hopefully his response of SNLF units will not be enough against Divisions and this is the weakness we are looking for!

MLees: thanks for joining in. There have been times - I don't mind telling you - that the helplessness factor has nearly scuppered me. However, I soooooo want to return the favour. Every time PzB and I play he seems to get the side with the kickarse aircraft. Well this time he has done the same - but it wont always be so - nooooo it wont, and I am hanging in there until the P-38s et-al start to roll [:D]

Elvis: I knew it! You live! The weather in India is thundestorms at the moment (although they manage to stop my planes from hitting Chandpur they do not stop his Chandpur placed planes form hitting Calcutta - grrrrr). As such the ground attack I had planned from Diamond Harbour to Calcutta did not go. I moved them to Jamshedpur to try again. I am at level 7 forts and 97% to level 8 again. His timely attack on my airfields meant the engineers were fixing holes rather than building forts this turn - bugger.

[ElvisDaKing]

Don't give in boy, The King is on your side...

[Strv103C]

Oh dear what a turn, i really hope that you can avoid autovictory so you can return those favors to the jap. I also have to bend over before a competent jap player with luck, sigh. Lost 24 P-40 to a sub this turn and that is of course my most needed plane type at the moment. I wonder if the pilots went down also...[&:]

[denisonh]

Keep at it Wobbly. As long as you keep Karachi, you can come back in India. Be patient and do not be stupid, cause that devious Norwegian will extract a toll. LIke many others, I have learned volumes about how to prepare and defend India from this AAR.

I want to see you win, as I had to recently concede my last ongoing UV PBEM to PzB. He is a crafty devil.

[rroberson]

ORIGINAL: Strv103C

Well, I´m not so lycky either as Singapore may fall before january 1942. Or rather I must be the worst allied general there is. If i would be rated in witp I would have got like minus 38 in leadership... [8|]

Nothing beats losing four Japanese carriers on december 10th...trust me

[Strv103C]

December 10th??? What did you do to loose them?

[mlees]

An awful turn. I loose 50 aircraft! He had been complaining about his bombers not flying, so I thought I would move bombers in to try and take advantage of this by hitting them on the ground. Murphy - that snake in the grass that dogs me at every turn - then does exactly the same thing to me while he bombs the airfield I am based at. I loose 10 fulmars that were CAPing the base - he bought 20 oscars and 40 zeros - and then hit the 3 sqds of Beuforts and 1 sqd of Blenheim IVs I had on the ground. 10 of each are smashed and the rest are damaged - so now of course I cannot move the bloody things out and his continued raids will keep smashing the ACs gaining him points. You get one piece of bad luck and then pay an pay an pay for it. If it wasn't the RAF bombers damaged on attacks out of Tarakan, just before it was invaded; it was the P-40s based at Balikpapan caught there by the next invasion; or the notorious dauntlesses bombarded with split second timing in Batavia.

Did PzB sucker you? Sounds like he did. Are you playing the stock #15 scenerio? Lemur's beefs up the Hurricanes for more air to air parity...
I'm gonna guess that PzB doesn't let you get your fighter pilot experience up above 70ish, that might be why you still get spanked...

[2ndACR]

Nope, this is a stock scenario 15. Me and Pzb just started his first Lemurs game. So hush with the Hurricane talk.[:-]

I would rather he did not know about that a/c.

[rroberson]

ORIGINAL: Strv103C

December 10th??? What did you do to loose them?

Let's just say I was hunting carriers off of pearl...with four of my own...let's just say his birds launched and mine didnt...instant four holes in the water .

[Hornblower]

Are you planning on driving north up the solomans and Ng from Henderson and PM?

[wobbly]

3 Days of quiet in the Pacific - while in the Indian the continuing torture of Calcutta continues.

MLees - yes the pilot issue is now critical - no more trained British pilots in the pool. I don't know about suckered me - he just sent only zeros in against my fighters rather than letting the bombers come as well. I am now only flying the Hurricanes on high altitude settings. They did manage to shoot down 15 or so zeros themselves. From now on the Kittyhawks and Warhawks will be doing the lion share of the defense - they replace with Oz and Yank Pilots.

RRoberson - that is soo painful. Without the carriers you can't hope to gain any tactical advantage. I am at least lucky in that he has lost two of these precious commodities. With the start of Nighthawk and the continuation in Whiskey I am likely to suffer the loss of some myself.

Hornblower - yes - operation Whiskey is the liberation of Rabaul. If I hold Rabaul the taking of the Solomons will be far easier.

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 05/12/42

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Naval bombardment of Colombo, at 14,24 - Coastal Guns Fire Back!

27 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Japanese Ships
CA Kako, Shell hits 1
CA Kinugasa, Shell hits 6
CA Aoba


Allied ground losses:
77 casualties reported
Guns lost 2

I think I can expect many more of these naval bombardments. I tried a bit of bluff and bluster by saying I would meet the cruisers with some royal navy ships but that will put the ships at the mercy of any naval bombers out of Madras and Trim. I get the Illustrious in 2 days. With her and Formidable, I might be able to mount seaborne LRCAP a surface attack - if I time it to happen on conjunction with crap weather - you never know.
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Day Air attack on 6th NLF , at 67,97


Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 13
SBD Dauntless x 13


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
28 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:
13 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet

The level 3 (now) airfield at Lunga is in business at last. Bombers kill more japs for far less than the RCT attacking them.
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Day Air attack on 64th Chinese Corps, at 46,29

Japanese aircraft
Ki-27 Nate x 13
Ki-48 Lily x 19
Ki-49 Helen x 12

No Japanese losses


Allied ground losses:
59 casualties reported

The Japs, on the same level of road have managed to get back from Lanchow faster than I could move 1 hex on the same type of road. With that kind of handicap I am going to be very hard pressed to mount any kind of surprise attacks - they just arent' possible. Therefore my attack on Sian has been abandoned.

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Ground combat at Calcutta

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 128091 troops, 754 guns, 792 vehicles

Defending force 57242 troops, 282 guns, 480 vehicles

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 6

Japanese assault odds: 0 to 1 (fort level 6)


Japanese ground losses:
2271 casualties reported
Guns lost 33
Vehicles lost 2

Allied ground losses:
1314 casualties reported
Guns lost 38
Vehicles lost 6

Oh crap - the forts are starting to tumble. I am at level 6 now with 67% on the next level. The ability of the engineers to construct new forts is getting reduced - probably due to battle damage. He has managed a few 1-1 hits on my and they are very bad for my chances of holding. I am making preparations to retreat yet again. The problem with this of course is that he can choose to bypass where I retreat to.
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The tanker TF and the Oz 2nd are now at the most dangerous location. Trying to get past search planes based at Madras and Trim. The KB has disappeared - I have based Catalinas at Columbo for a one off search to see if I can find them.

2 more days until I get the UK 5th Division and the other little RCT.

It looks very much like he is going to try and take bangalore. I only have 1 fort there so it is almost an instant retreat. India is being consumed one bite at a time. I have had another intel snippet of a construction battalion going to Madras - I think he may be looking to make this location his new area for attention.

Nighthawk and Whiskey are very slowly getting into position. I have noticed that the carriers - which haven't been into port for a while - are very low on fuel. They are sent down to Pago Pago to top up the tanks. The should be back on station ready for Nighthawk which should be in about a weeks time - Merry Christmas PzB!

[wobbly]

The worst turn yet for the RAF. Calcutta manages to keep its forts but losses more men than the enemy.

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 05/13/42

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Sub attack at 16,15

Japanese Ships
SS I-4

Allied Ships
AK Santa Teresa, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

One of my tripwire transports gets located by a sub and is in a dire way. I will probably have to scuttle her.
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Day Air attack on Calcutta , at 29,23

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 55
Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 21
Ki-21 Sally x 83

Allied aircraft
Hurricane II x 26
Kittyhawk I x 28
P-40E Warhawk x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 21 destroyed, 2 damaged
Ki-43-Ib Oscar: 36 destroyed
Ki-21 Sally: 5 destroyed, 5 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Hurricane II: 57 destroyed, 7 damaged
Kittyhawk I: 42 destroyed, 3 damaged
P-40E Warhawk: 17 destroyed, 4 damaged
Beaufort V-IX: 9 destroyed, 2 damaged
Blenheim IF: 6 destroyed, 6 damaged
Blenheim IV: 3 destroyed, 3 damaged


Allied ground losses:
132 casualties reported
Guns lost 4

Airbase hits 19
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 67

Aircraft Attacking:
10 x Ki-21 Sally bombing at 6000 feet

An absolutely lethal day. What is left of the hurricanes is splashed to the four corners and the Kittyhawks join them. One sqd has no planes left after the day! I haven't seen that before. I do manager to take a large chunk out of his oscar sqds but the 2 to one odds - when he losses 35 is too steep for me to take. I fear I cannot continue to defend the skies above Calcutta. What disturbs me further is the Warhawks were specifically set at 7000 feet - 1000 above the Sallies you can see here - and yet they still refuse to hit them. It is the bombers that I really want to take apart - they are stopping my ability to raise forts.

Here is an addendum to the way aerial fights occur: why do the fighters attack enemy fighters without fail? The escort fighter's job is to intercept CAP fighters before they get to the bombers. The trouble is they weren't always successful. WitP plays combats as if they are. When you have such disparrities in capibility this means trying to target the bombers is an impossibility. In short my fighters do not survive the multiple rounds of fighter versus fighter to get a crack at the bombers: their intended target. Do others agree that when multiple sqds defend that there should be a possibility that a sqd attacks from an undefended location? Have a combat replay pop-up saying something like 'interceptors bypass escorts - attacking bombers".
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Day Air attack on 93rd Chinese Division, at 30,34

Japanese aircraft
G3M Nell x 24
G4M1 Betty x 20

No Japanese losses


Allied ground losses:
39 casualties reported
Guns lost 2

I hav movd a couple of Chinese Divisions along the rail linebetweenRangoon and Moulmein.He notices them and decides to bomb them. He has also moved a unit out of Rangoon to the location my Burmese units occupied for so long. I don't know where this will eventuate but I am doing it to try and make him think twice about moving the Rangoon defenders up to India.
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Ground combat at Calcutta

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 93386 troops, 550 guns, 732 vehicles

Defending force 56030 troops, 260 guns, 477 vehicles

Japanese assault odds: 0 to 1 (fort level 6)


Japanese ground losses:
746 casualties reported
Guns lost 13
Vehicles lost 3

Allied ground losses:
1162 casualties reported
Guns lost 26
Vehicles lost 16

Thankfully I don't loose another level of forts but I do loose twice as many troops as he does - this is a very poor result. Forts are at 78% completion to level 7. He also does not appear to be attacking with all his troops??? He has more than 93K at Calcutta.
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I have been worried about the depletion of the RAF for the last few turns - well this killed what was left. There is nothing to fight back with. The Oz Kittyhawk Sqd needs a complete overhaula nd the Warhawks are not much better off. He has control of the skies and I didn't even manage to dent his bomber force with all those fighter losses.

I have set the bombers at Diamond harbour to attack the airfield at Chandpur. I need it to be bad weather at Calcutta and good weather at Chandpur and Diamond Harbour. My bombers are so far refusing to fly so I doubt much will happen anyway. He may have too many fighters up over his airfields - man I am outnumbered!

In the first bit of good news the 15th Indian Division and another Brigade arrive at Karachi. The Division is on its way south to try and resist the incursion starting at Madras, while the bnrigade will stay in Karachi. I can't afford to loose the place. 1 more day until I get the Illustrious. I have not seen the KB again so it my be worth trying to intercept the cruiser runs to Columbo. A Us base force has also arrived and is sent to Lucknow.

Off the coast of Ceylon both the tanker force and Oz 2nd pass each other - I am sweating bullets that the KB will come out of the dark to find these ships.

In Noumea I start loading the 2nd Marines with Rabaul as their target - they are to be a further floating reserve.

More ships are coming together between Canton Island and Lunga. I am still a few days off commencing operation Nighthawk.

[Andy Mac]

Wobb I think you are going to have to sit still with the airforce and take your punishment for now

You need to waitfor Spits and just cling on.

In about 4 weeks you will have some Spits but at this rate no experienced pilots.

Andy

[toraq]

Wobbly,

You were kicked out of the skies. There is no way to beat the Zeroes with Hurricanes or Kittyhawks. The problem is not the aircraft, but the pilots.

Try to retire your airforce back to a save place and use some hit and run tactic (when possible). You won´t get results but this may disturb him and distract some air attacks to other places.

I agree with you. Building forts in Calcutta is your priority.
What are you going to do with the Victorious?. How many RN ships left?

[wobbly]

Man my luck just isn't in on this game. Cacutta bombed again while Dimaond harbour is once again hemmed in by weather.

Andy and Toraq: You can't have your cake and eat it I am afraid. There is no "retire your airforce AND build forts at Calcutta". While I give up the skies over Calcutta his bombers will hit the airfields and my engineers wont build the forts. Andy - I have retired my two best sqds of Hurricanes to wait for the spitfires - they wont take part in any more action in Hurricanes. I am still in mid May so no spits for a month.
It is a nice idea to retire your pilots from the front line to save them, but continuing the cake metaphor, this does not increase their experience. Using training to increase experience takes MONTHS - obviously I don't have months. Now I have no pool pilots I am going to have to find a quiet location to run escorts to bombing raids and the like (as at Darwin). However, even doing this is not increasing their experience at a really noticable rate. My Dutch Demon sqd for instance has gone from average 33 to average 40 in about a month, and this is flying escort to live bombing missions as opposed to training.

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 05/14/42

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Day Air attack on Calcutta , at 29,23

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 45
Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 7
Ki-21 Sally x 84

Allied aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21 Sally: 5 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-40E Warhawk: 2 destroyed, 5 damaged
Kittyhawk I: 15 destroyed, 8 damaged
Blenheim IF: 2 destroyed, 6 damaged
Blenheim IV: 1 destroyed


Allied ground losses:
88 casualties reported
Guns lost 2
Vehicles lost 1

Airbase hits 24
Airbase supply hits 3
Runway hits 79

Now I have nothing with which to defend the airfields. His planes fly in and hit EVERY SINGLE PLANE in my kittyhawk sqd. I therefore cannot transfer it out to replenish it's numbers elsewhere. Of course the only thing I can do is to turn on replacements to get fresh planes in. These will all be damaged and with his fixation on Calcutta - bombed on the ground - The is so f'ing frustrating! With the damage his low flying Sallies are doing to my airfields I am not building forts. The weather isn't helping one bit.I get a cloud icon over DIamond Harbour and Calcutta. His bombers diregard this phantom restrction but mine don't want to get wet - grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
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Day Air attack on 55th Chinese Division, at 30,34

Japanese aircraft
Ki-48 Lily x 12

No Japanese losses
These are the chinese untis I moved down to put pressure on Moulmein. POintless with the new zones of control - he can too easily surround me. So the Chinese are ordered to retreat.
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TF 88 troops unloading over beach at Mannargudi, 16,23


Japanese ground losses:
98 casualties reported

He is taking another of the small southern Indian port towns. There is no-one here to stop him.
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Ground combat at Calcutta

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 101215 troops, 615 guns, 796 vehicles

Defending force 55922 troops, 255 guns, 467 vehicles

Japanese assault odds: 0 to 1 (fort level 6)


Japanese ground losses:
1303 casualties reported
Guns lost 21

Allied ground losses:
914 casualties reported
Guns lost 15
Vehicles lost 8

He does not tear down a fort level but I don't put any up either. I want the weather to stop him from bombing - the cloud icons are just window dressing - they don't actually mean anything.
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Ground combat at Bangalore

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 20086 troops, 210 guns, 6 vehicles

Defending force 13295 troops, 184 guns, 9 vehicles



Allied ground losses:
31 casualties reported
Guns lost 3

Hmm - well it appears it is onwards and upwards for him in India. he has landed one hell of a lot of unit at Madras it appears - 6 more are on the rail line to Bangalore.
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Operation Reciprocity is put into action at Karachi. The Illustrious has arrived and the Fulmars from Hermes are loaded upon Her to provide a modicum of AC support for the surface fleet comprinsing most of what remains of the RN - 5 CAs, 4 CLs and 10 DDs. they are going to try to defend the port of Columbo - or more importantly - put some hurt on the Jap Cruisers and persuade ships moving to the Pacific to return.

I bolster the escorts at Diamond Harbour so that the bombers go to Chandpur. Their lack of courage is causing the defense of Calcutta to stumble. If this flight doesn't happen I have to move all teh planes out to Asansol anyway as sitting in one location for too long attracts Jap bombers and they are invincible.

The Oz 2nd continues north. Baring attack from Jap planes it will be making landfall in Bombay in about a week.

Hermes meets her tanker and speeds on the rest of her way to Broome. Waiting here is a sqd of Wildcats and Warhawks.

Port Moresby is groaning under aircraft! I have sent my recreated TV 1a's, 3 sqds of beauforts and 55 Warhawks and P-39s. I notice some of the ships heading to LAe are not AGs but APs and DDs - he will be CAPing them but I hope - oh please for once - to outnumber and out gun him!

A surface TF is created in Noumea to run to Lunga - they are aircraft fodder to attract bombers at Rabaul.

Nighthawk is a couple of days from go.

I fear for my attacks in the South Pacific now. I have not seen his BBs for ages and now the KB has disappeared. He no longer need the same attention he had in India (in the sea anyway). I am starting to loose heart - everything else I plan turns to shight so why should this be any different.

In China my troops continue to retreat from Sian.

[Andy Mac]

Dont lose heart...

Stretch him out.


Perhaps prepare a "oh crap line" at the Northern Line (Delhi/ Ahmabad)