Tokyo Rose was a Hussy! Chez (J) vs. Canoe (A)

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

As a youngster Heinlein was my favorite author. I read every book he ever published.

"Never appeal to a man's better nature, he may not have one. Appeal insted to his self interest"

I read them all as well. "Starship Troopers" in 4th grade. It was a central impetus to my eventually serving in the Navy.

I posted those lines both as a gentle nudge to CR (too subtle?) and as an Are You a Geek? test. [:)] You, sir, have passed with flying colors, while it seems as if our own ChickenDoc might have failed to grasp the source. That Lazarus fought in WWI, WWII, but was writing the Notebooks from approximately 4000 A.D. is a little joke. Well, maybe.

Hail, Geeks!!!! [;)]

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

I cannot envision a way that any fuel or oil from anywhere in the DEI could be shipped back to the home islands if it's bombed enroute. N. Borneo or Palawan, combined with Cebu in the Central Philipines combines with Leyte/Samar east of there forms an impenetrable barrier over any oil shipments through the region. Morotai or Palau / Bobble-do-rag would complete the eastern border of the 'no ship' zone.

CR's still 1.5 years from kamikaze enablement, so there's really no downside to getting as high up the Philipine chain. I'd do this in preference to landing directly on those respective oil sources. Reinforcing already held islands in the Philipines is essentially a zero cost option to this opportunity. This would be my preference-accomplish the strategic goal at zero cost.

You are objectively correct that POL out of Miri is not going to happen much longer one way or the other. But there are several reasons I still think standing on Miri is the best option right now, and why the PI route is riskier:

1) Miri is recon-visible. The PI is a leap into some degree of darkness.

2) Given 1), the PI would need carriers. Even then, depending on how far north the intrusion occurred, Chez woudl have a good strategic backfield to rally a response from. Marianas?

3) The PI invasion options need to be "bigger" and thus would take longer to mount.

4) Biggest reason to go at Miri is psychological. Not to go all Nemo here, but Miri "going green" would be a huge psychological blow to Chez. As the saying goes, nothing focuses the mind like the prospect of a hanging at dawn. Loss of Miri would be a back-breaker; Japan would have to respond in a massive way. It takes a Japan which is already on its heels in reactive posture and escalates that 150%. It does it quickly, in a low-risk way for the Allies, but would require an all-in move by Japan to eject the landings. Leyte Gulf in the DEI if you will.

The PI is a slow bleed over the next 8-12 months. It might take Chez a while to grasp that his home-bound convoys are in danger once credible air forces were established in the PI. But Miri is a right to the jaw. It's unmistakeable. Sometimes CR likes to be subtle, to feint, to jab, to bleed out his opponent. But sometimes an all-in challenge is the right move, particularly when you've already prepared the gorund for it. The Sink. battle and take-down is the prep. Taking Miri is the harvest.

[Grfin Zeppelin]

After reading Bullwinkles posts I have a strange urge to reinforce Miri

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

I cannot envision a way that any fuel or oil from anywhere in the DEI could be shipped back to the home islands if it's bombed enroute. N. Borneo or Palawan, combined with Cebu in the Central Philipines combines with Leyte/Samar east of there forms an impenetrable barrier over any oil shipments through the region. Morotai or Palau / Bobble-do-rag would complete the eastern border of the 'no ship' zone.

CR's still 1.5 years from kamikaze enablement, so there's really no downside to getting as high up the Philipine chain. I'd do this in preference to landing directly on those respective oil sources. Reinforcing already held islands in the Philipines is essentially a zero cost option to this opportunity. This would be my preference-accomplish the strategic goal at zero cost.

You are objectively correct that POL out of Miri is not going to happen much longer one way or the other. But there are several reasons I still think standing on Miri is the best option right now, and why the PI route is riskier:

1) Miri is recon-visible. The PI is a leap into some degree of darkness.

2) Given 1), the PI would need carriers. Even then, depending on how far north the intrusion occurred, Chez woudl have a good strategic backfield to rally a response from. Marianas?

3) The PI invasion options need to be "bigger" and thus would take longer to mount.

4) Biggest reason to go at Miri is psychological. Not to go all Nemo here, but Miri "going green" would be a huge psychological blow to Chez. As the saying goes, nothing focuses the mind like the prospect of a hanging at dawn. Loss of Miri would be a back-breaker; Japan would have to respond in a massive way. It takes a Japan which is already on its heels in reactive posture and escalates that 150%. It does it quickly, in a low-risk way for the Allies, but would require an all-in move by Japan to eject the landings. Leyte Gulf in the DEI if you will.

The PI is a slow bleed over the next 8-12 months. It might take Chez a while to grasp that his home-bound convoys are in danger once credible air forces were established in the PI. But Miri is a right to the jaw. It's unmistakeable. Sometimes CR likes to be subtle, to feint, to jab, to bleed out his opponent. But sometimes an all-in challenge is the right move, particularly when you've already prepared the gorund for it. The Sink. battle and take-down is the prep. Taking Miri is the harvest.

I'm still in favor of the insidious expansion of forces in the Cent PI theatre:

Chez has demonstrated a disinterest or unwillingness to thoroughly recon Allied axes of expansion. He is coming into the fight blinded about CR's build in supporting bases elsewhere in the DEI.

Clearly something is 'up' at Miri now and Chez is alerted to the threat here. Allied capture of this base will now require a good deal more force than it once did against an alerted opponent. Allied carriers will likely be required to support troops en route. LRCAP from LBA will be insufficient for a Miri invasion. I agree that an exploitation of the central PI would require at least transient carrier support, as would Miri, in my opinion.

However, lodgements could be secured inexpensively and-quite possibly-concealed from the prying eyes of the IJ forces, because they've not been properly dealt with by the Japanese. Allied air supply can transport some small base forces (and aviation support) to N. Borneo bases right now. A couple DB units there would be easily supported by air supply. Air transport in some LCUs if you're concerned about a counterinvasion. A couple xAKs on a one-way mission could provide supplies en masse.

Cebu in particular, with its supply production, could be a real hub for Allied expansion in this area. CR knows the distance his air transport units can fly: if they're in range of modest-range reconnaisance assets (e.g., F-4 or F-5s), they're within range of Allied transport aircraft.

Miri may be the right cross to the jaw. Quietly building the central Philipines is like waking up in the morning and finding your midsection missing. No warning, no hint it's just not there one day. Maybe some diagnostic discovery could have been done, but it's too late now. This is the more subtle and nuanced play in my book.

Chez hasn't indicated that he'd be 'knocked out' by a landed blow before now. Heck-if he can fight on without Palembang (and not put up a knock-down fight for it), why should he care about lesser (much lesser) oil centers now? He'll likely look at it as "Well, that sucked. Now what?" and fight on. Removing his midsection will make the 'fighting on' aspect that much easier for CR to exploit in the future.

[Canoerebel]

Well....the next strike is probably going to be Balikpapan.  There is a beehive of Japanese activity all around Miri.  Once Singkawang falls it should be pretty easy to really stir up the bees:  some recon flights over Miri and Brunei, lots of shipping plying the waters, sub activity, patrols out of Groet Natoena, and suddenly a big force moving that way...while the real force moves on Banjermasin and Balikpapan.  (This wouldn't work the other way around, because Steve is primed to believe that Miri is the target and he won't be dissuaded from that belief.)

I won't do any recon of Banjermasin and Balikpapan until just before the operation gets underway.  But the Allies may go ahead and transport some base force and garrison troops into Sampit, which is still an Allied-controlled base.

None of this will happen for at least a month.  Singkawang has to fall first and the Allies have to begin prepping troops.

In the meantime, the Allies may proceed with the invasion of Victoria Point, assuming it remains vacant or lightly guarded, and assuming the Indian division prepping for Singkawang and just departing India isn't needed for that oepration and can be diverted.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: vettim89

BTW, I love Beeble-bo-bub

Then you might also enjoy its brotiher in the southern PI: ""Bojangles."

And the one on the eastern end of Java "Banjos and Wookies".

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: vettim89

BTW, I love Beeble-bo-bub

Then you might also enjoy its brotiher in the southern PI: ""Bojangles."

And the one on the eastern end of Java "Banjos and Wookies".

and don't forget my all time favorite...the island of F_ckit...err I mean Phuket

[BBfanboy]

HB, when I first saw the name I thought the same, but friends quickly corrected me about the letter K being in the second syllable. It is pronounced Foo-ket if you wish to mention it in polite company. I was lucky enough to visit the place a couple of years ago. Beautiful island overall. The beach in the centre of the west side is a tourist trap where young people go to party. I much preferred the quieter beach we found at the southwest corner.

[Canoerebel]

11/27/42
 
Borneo:  Things are heating up.  Steve seems to have slipped a fast transport convoy into Singkawang during the afternoon phase, thus missing three Allied combat TFs that visited earlier in the day.  The IJ garrison is up to 14k, so this may be a tough battle.  Another IJ fast transport dropped off a small detachment of artillery units at Kuching.  I assume this is a scouting force belatedly diverted to this base after the Allied parachute assault.  PBYs out of Kuching report a variety of Japanese TFs in the South China Sea, including at least one carrier TF (appears to be the small force that stood watch near Kuching a few turns ago, not the KB).  The Allied army moving on Singkawang again covered 11 miles - the remaining distance is 41 miles, so perhaps the army will arrive in four days.  The Allies continue to send in reinforcements to Kuching and Sambas via air transport - those going to the former were intercepted by enemy fighters.  Kuching has clearly incited Steve, which is good.  However, I want to hold it if possible (Marine 'chutes won't be able to do so very long against a determined counterattack), so my transport aircraft will be committed to this operation for a few days.  As soon as they can get free, though, they'll begin transporting troops to Sampit, way over near Banjermasin.  26th Indian Div. 100% prepped for Singk is well on its way now.  I'm going to hold it in reserve somewhere south of Sumatra.  If needed at Singkawang, she'll be called in for duty.  If not, she'll form the backbone of the Victoria Point invasion. Lots going on here.
 
Singkep:  No enemy counterattack yet, but it's coming.  Like Kuching, the Allies would love to hold this base, but its going to be tough given its proximity to Singapore.  9th Marine CD unit, 100% prepped for Singkep, arrives at Oosthaven in a day or two.  Don't know how to shoe-horn these guys in, but I'm going to try.
 
Sumatra:  One of the big decisions is which troops I can afford to stand down from their current prep in order to develop of force of 1,000 to 1,500 AV to prep for Balikpan.  The threat to Sumatra is dimished considerably after the big naval battle that took Yamato out of the war for a good while, but there is still some concern.  I can't afford to lose Palembang, Oosthaven, Benkolen or Padang.  On the other hand, the American carriers will be back on station in about two weeks (unless the Allies pull the trigger on the Victoria Point invasion), so at that point I think the Allies are safe to act.
 
Burma:  Allied units will arrive at Prome the day after tomorrow.  Unlikely I have enough to take this base, but we'll see.
 
NoPac:  Para port goes to level four in a couple of days, which will bump up the supply limits, which is important.

[Capt. Harlock]

9th Marine CD unit, 100% prepped for Singkep, arrives at Oosthaven in a day or two. Don't know how to shoe-horn these guys in, but I'm going to try.

Fast transport TF's seem to work pretty well.[;)]

[Canoerebel]

Not mine.  There is default coding in my copy of AE that reads this way:  "Fast Transport:  Fast Transport TFs will proceed at mission speed until they speed up enough to arrive at exposed bases under hazardous duty just in time to stay throughout the entire day, standing down long enough to permit massive enemy air raids in retaliation for their intrepidity in engaging in such missions."

[Cribtop]

Dan,

Select the target base before loading troops. In theory, this will make the ships load only what they can unload in the night phase.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

Dan,

Select the target base before loading troops. In theory, this will make the ships load only what they can unload in the night phase.

The subtleties that this game expects you to remember never cease to amaze me! Advice like yours is why forums are the best learning tool of all. Would have taken me more years than I have left to find that one out on my own [if ever]. [8|]

[Cribtop]

Thanks, BB. I have a pretty much photographic memory and I've always joked it helps in this game. Be warned, my memory of this particular data point is of reading it in another thread. Therefore my certainty I saw it is 100% but my certainty the information is accurate is not. [;)]

[Saros]

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

Dan,

Select the target base before loading troops. In theory, this will make the ships load only what they can unload in the night phase.

...That is certainly some very important information I did not know. We really need to make a thread with a whole massive list of quirky important things like that.

[John 3rd]

Heck...I NEVER heard of that Chickieboy! Take a look at the screenshot I will now Post in my AAR...

[8|]

[Canoerebel]

11/28/42
 
The contest over southwestern Borneo continues to blaze furiously.

Pontianak:  An eight-DD Japanese TF came into Pontianak and tangled with a SC/xAKL force, sinking three of the latter.  Upon retiring, the Japanese TF bumped into two Allied TFs, one led by Royal Sovereign and the other by CA Pensacola.  The Japanese acquitted themselves well, sinking three low-value DD and a DMS.  I think four Japanese DDs went under, possibly five, with two more left in flames.

Kuching:  Japan is really hot after the Allied garrison at Kuching - diverting precious attention (IMO) from more important places.  BBs Kongo and Kirishima bombarded the base effectively.  Massed waves of IJA and IJN strike aircraft targeted the troops with relativley little impact.  Wtih the airfield shut down, the Allies are moving the PBY squadron to Groet Natoena - that ought to ruffle Steve's feathers if he notices!

Singkawang/Sambas:  Allied 4EB target Singkawang without opposition.  In the process, we learn that the Japanese garrison consists of three regiments (one a Cav unit), an AA unit, and a base force.  (There is one more unit there of unknown type).  The Allied army marching on Singk made 11 more miles - just 30 to go.  This is where Steve is making two important mistakes, though with everything going on I can understand why.  He wants to reinforce, so time is important.  He should be doing two things:  (1) bombing the Allied army to slow the rate of advance to a crawl, and (2) counter-invading Sambas so that he can land troops there and at Singk (it would be harder for the Allies to effectively shut down both ports).

Allied Naval Power:  BB Washington TF (commanded by Halsey) will patrol Singk tonight, as will the remnants of the Royal Sovereign Tf, plus the newly replenished CA Cornwall TF.  BB South Dakota and CA San Francisco are in a TF moving tonight from Oost to Billiton Island.  The Allies are playing all their cards now in an effort to either halt Japanese reinforcement efforts at Singk or make the effort as bloody as possible.

Burma:  Allied probing attacks at both Prome and Pegu tomorrow.

SWPac:  Garrison troops have unloaded at Taberfane and will unload at Saumlauki tomorrow.  No sign of detection.  So while the hot action is taking place in the western DEI, the Allies are taking the first steps toward making inroads in the eastern DEI.

[princep01]

Nice intercept on that DD raiding party. 5 more DDs gone. You just keep bleeding those IJN units. They are hard to replace and it will get tougher as the oil intake drops lower and lower. Good work. Maybe some bigger fish will swim in sensing the blood in the water.....and join their brothern. BB Washington can handle almost anything, With HAlsey in command of the TF, they are liable to pursue back to Saigon or Cam Rhan Bay:). Keep him on a leash....he's not called Wild Bill for nothing.

On to Balikpapan....or whereever the next stop is.

[paullus99]

Ouch - this is where his lack of CA's is really going to come back and haunt him. They are / were some of his best surface combatants & now that he's forced to use the remainder as either carrier escorts or risk them against superior allied numbers, he is caught between a rock and a hard place.

Where are his Betty's & Nell's? I can't believe he isn't flooding the area with LBA on anti-shipping missions - and he should still have plenty of airframes to go around. He's now fighting a war that he is well ill-equipped to win - surprise isn't on his side, he's having to react to your offensive moves now, and you have plenty of reinforcements in the pipeline.

I can see exactly why the Pacific has almost no priority for you - better to funnel everything into the DEI where you have major bases to stage from & shorter distances to his major arteries.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: paullus99

I can see exactly why the Pacific has almost no priority for you - better to funnel everything into the DEI where you have major bases to stage from & shorter distances to his major arteries.

At this point I think CR would be nearly ecstatic to see the IJN bringing any strength into the Pacific. He's working on mid-43-44 objectives in late 42! By the beginning of 43 the Japanese economy should be feeling the pinch and the Allies might be re-stablishing outposts in the PI. Crazy.