THE THREAD

[Dixie]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

ORIGINAL: Dixie

ORIGINAL: Terminus




A type of umbrella drink, IIRC...[:'(]

Well, drinks with umbrellas are classy [:D]

If you're a girl...[:'(]

Or you don't like girls [:D] Seeing as I don't drink it's not that important. [:)]

[BrucePowers]

For six long days and weary nights they tried to find her trail

[Wirraway_Ace]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

So she's not entered the You-Must-Do-Nothing-That-Isn't-About-The-Baby phase yet?

That sounds suspiciously like experience talking.

[Apollo11]

Hi all,

Good evening!


Leo "Apollo11"

[Apollo11]

Hi all,

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Sky Rockets in Flight...
Afternoon Delight...

[:D]

What song is that Kristian?


Leo "Apollo11"

[Dixie]

I'm off to bed.  Catch you later chaps [:)]

[Historiker]

Good Night, Dixie!
Hello Leo!

[Historiker]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

No offense, Historiker (Torsten, right?), but Germany should never have built a battlefleet in the first place. It only came about because the Kaiser had such a massive inferiority complex towards England.

Germany could have been a great power without a single battleship to its name, although I would have to say that it was good for Europe and the world (in the end) that she diverted so many resources towards shipbuilding.

Sort of like the old saying that Hitler was working FOR the Allies in the second half of WWII.

And of course, this wasn't offensive. It was also very costly (and we still pay the "Sektsteuer" that was introduced to finance the fleet. One day, I'll go for our Supreme Court, the Bundesverfassungsgericht, and will demand that all the money earned by this tax has to be spent for battleships!


If I had lived a hundred years ago, I'd volunteer for the High seas fleer for sure! [:)]

[DuckofTindalos]

ORIGINAL: Historiker

ORIGINAL: Terminus

No offense, Historiker (Torsten, right?), but Germany should never have built a battlefleet in the first place. It only came about because the Kaiser had such a massive inferiority complex towards England.

Germany could have been a great power without a single battleship to its name, although I would have to say that it was good for Europe and the world (in the end) that she diverted so many resources towards shipbuilding.

Sort of like the old saying that Hitler was working FOR the Allies in the second half of WWII.

Mahan, ol' northern neigbour, Mahan!

His majesty adored Mahan's book...

Well, a nation with colonies needed ships, but Germany wanted too much. You can't have an army to compete with both france AND Russia while building a battlefleet big enough to be a risk for the RN...


The BBs in WW2 might have been a nice fleet in being, if used properly (and the air threat wasn't in existance).
Imagine Bismarck, Tirpitz, Scharnhorst, Gneisenau, Graf Zeppelin, Admiral Scheer, Lützow, Prinze Eugen and Admiral Hipper in Brest (and in a BB-bunker, if you want so).

A recce flight over the harbour without finding ships would've ended all shipping in the atlantic immediately...

I know. Mahan's fleet-in-being concept was flawed, but Wilhelm ate it raw.

[Historiker]

Not just he. It was equally adored by Japan and by Teddy Roosevelt.

[DuckofTindalos]

I know. It was still wrong.

[Historiker]

Have you read: "From Mahan to Pearl Harbor"?

[DuckofTindalos]

No.

[USSAmerica]

I'm lurking, just feeling too lazy to post.  But, I'm enjoying the fleet in being discussion.  [;)]

[Historiker]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

No.

me neither, but it's lying in front of me. It's from Sadao Asada by Naval Institute Press and seems quite intersting. Gonna read it when I'm done with History of Aircraft Carriers and Japanese Cruisers in the Pacific war.

[Historiker]

Don't always know what I'm talking about
feels like Im living in the middle of doubt
Cause I'm eighteen! *sing*

[DuckofTindalos]

Germany and Japan both wanted and thought they needed fleets in being. The former didn't need it and the latter couldn't afford it, and they both tried to keep up with an immediate competitor (Britain and the US, respectively) that they had absolutely no chance to compete with.

[Wirraway_Ace]

ORIGINAL: USS America

I'm lurking, just feeling too lazy to post.  But, I'm enjoying the fleet in being discussion.  [;)]

I also. Although I only felt that Mahan's fleet in being concept was wrong if your enemy could afford to build overwhelming naval, ground and air power, and you couldn't. The economy of force principle was otherwise generally valid.

[Apollo11]

Hi all,

Zsssssss time... [>:][>:][>:]


Leo "Apollo11"

[Historiker]

I agree.

But can a country in central europe be a great or even world power without an adequate fleet? It needs ships to project power and to deter other powers from seizing their small colonies.
That outbuilding UK wasn't possible then - though without the war maybe 20 years later - is known, but can Germany afford to have a smaller fleet than Italy, France, Japan and Russia?