Hairy Asian Experiences - GreyJoy (J) vs. Q-Ball (A)

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

I thought Kamikaze only activated earliest Jan 1, 1944? If your post date is accurate (1943), I assume it's a bug.

He's actually in 44, so the date above was a mistake.

[veji1]

ORIGINAL: obvert

He's actually in 44, so the date above was a mistake.

He has done extremely well in the last 6 months. I remember when Qball got that foothold in the DEI, the fear I had was that if he could expand it quickly enough, a snowball effect would make Greyjoy's position untenable very quickly, but he managed to slow him down to a crawl a lot longer than expected, and all this is great bonus in terms of oil and HI.

Kudos Greyjoy !

[Chickenboy]

I am curious about the use of SR=1, long-range, high-speed kamikazes. In my thinking, groups of these could be sent to some 'cut off' airfields and operate from them with few restrictions. Allied supply or fuel TFs transiting these 'cut off' areas would be subject to interdiction, particularly if not LRCAPed or accompanied by CVEs.

As we know that Q-ball's CV/CVE fleet has been degraded substantially, I wonder if this may mean some opportunities for such a deployment. A sudden appearance of long-range kamikazes (Oscar IVs?) in a hitherto quiet theatre may really throw a curve ball at Q-ball's supply 'tail'.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

I am curious about the use of SR=1, long-range, high-speed kamikazes. In my thinking, groups of these could be sent to some 'cut off' airfields and operate from them with few restrictions. Allied supply or fuel TFs transiting these 'cut off' areas would be subject to interdiction, particularly if not LRCAPed or accompanied by CVEs.

As we know that Q-ball's CV/CVE fleet has been degraded substantially, I wonder if this may mean some opportunities for such a deployment. A sudden appearance of long-range kamikazes (Oscar IVs?) in a hitherto quiet theatre may really throw a curve ball at Q-ball's supply 'tail'.

I really like this idea. Remind me not to play Allies against you...

[btbw]

Oscar (2a-2b-3a-4), Ki-100-1, N1K2, Ki-84-a
Ki-45-kai-a, Sen Baku
outdated level bombers
earliest Judy, Jill
Any plane with range 6+ which can carry 250kg bomb or two - your kamikaze plane.

[Cribtop]

Also, don't underestimate the ability of a massed attack with both conventional and kami groups at different altitudes.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

I am curious about the use of SR=1, long-range, high-speed kamikazes. In my thinking, groups of these could be sent to some 'cut off' airfields and operate from them with few restrictions. Allied supply or fuel TFs transiting these 'cut off' areas would be subject to interdiction, particularly if not LRCAPed or accompanied by CVEs.

As we know that Q-ball's CV/CVE fleet has been degraded substantially, I wonder if this may mean some opportunities for such a deployment. A sudden appearance of long-range kamikazes (Oscar IVs?) in a hitherto quiet theatre may really throw a curve ball at Q-ball's supply 'tail'.

Yes, it is important as the Allies to just keep bombing the heck out of any rear base that you suspect have supply. Once the supply is gone then it becomes more of a problem and Japan can transport in a small bit of supply> You will have to sacrifice some critical aviation support as well. which raises the question, does Japan need aviation support to fly off one shot Kamikazes? Perhaps not.

[crsutton]

Actually this might be a better use for you non kamikaze aircraft since it is unlikely that the Allies would have much air protection in the rear shipping lanes anyways. Ark has pulled this on me a couple of times.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: btbw

Oscar (2a-2b-3a-4), Ki-100-1, N1K2, Ki-84-a
Ki-45-kai-a, Sen Baku
outdated level bombers
earliest Judy, Jill
Any plane with range 6+ which can carry 250kg bomb or two - your kamikaze plane.

I like the idea of using Judy 1 and Judy 2 for kamikazes. They carry 500kg bombs, and if you produce a pool of 500 Aichi Ha-60 engines for the research bonus on models 1 and 2 (to get to models 3 and 4 faster, of course), then you'll have at least 500 D4Y1/2's in the pool if you build out the engine pool once the D4Y3 comes online. They're reasonably fast (350-360 mph IIRC) and carry 500kg bombs out to a medium distance.

And of course, the D4Y3 is another valid choice if you can get the Y4 early enough/produce enough of them to fill out your frontline, regular combat units. Of course you can only use these for some Navy kami units, so you need something for the army too... I think the later Oscars, with 2x250kg bombs on the wings, are easiest in terms of level of investment.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

ORIGINAL: obvert

Wow. That's big.

Are there any dots that never changed hands, and might be within range. Like those islands off Borneo, in the PI or between Luzon and Formosa?

oh yes, they are. But doesn't the rule says that only "conquered" bases can activate the Kamis provided they are within the "line of Kamikaze"?
If it's so, i'm not happy about it. Was clearly not wanted by both of us and i will restrict myself in order to activate more Kami just when he will be in the said range.

Seems to me that kami's activated legitimately here ... kami's are to activte when the allies encroach upon IJ's "sphere of influence" and threaten the ability of the empire to defend herself. If Brad has some bases within that range that are now his, however that control ocurred, you are definitely threatened. Any of those that can be built to AF>/=5 can base 4E's and dominate that area (and a lot of dot bases can be built to 5 or 6). of course any that can reach AF=7 can base B-29's and then you're really in trouble, but I doubt any of those flipped.

I applaud your decision, but just pointing out that in my mind kami's would be legit now ...

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Something strange happened and neither me or brad are able to explain it: Kamikaze got activated[&:] He's still far away from HI, Saigon or Mariannas and, despite that, i managed to activate a sentai of Oscars...who were sent to action...sinking 1 PC and 1 xAP at Molu, losing 25 of them... was just an attempt in order to see if they were really active...and they are! How can it be possible?
I decided not to use them anymore for the moment (a part from that single 36 planes sentai)...doesn't seem right. The Kamis were a desperate weapon...and Japan is still far from being in a desperate situation.

Any ideas of how were they activated?

I recall that there has to be an Allied hex within 20 hexes of Saigon, Formosa, the HI or one other location (it's in the manual) after January 1, 1944. I think this hex has to have either a size 1 airfield or port (I think the latter). What do you have within this zone?

If it's clearly spelled out in the rules, then it's OK by me. You're kind to restrict your Kamikazes for now, but you certainly aren't morally obliged to hold back on your most powerful weapon because of some game SNAFU that didn't happen.

[GreyJoy]

Ok Guys, GreyJoy is finally back from his well deserved vacations... It's over[:(]

The game will now resume to a more decent pace and i will have more time to devote to this AAR.



Jan 27, 1943

The Allies are moving lots of stuff around Hollandia (where my garrison, despite having lost the base, is still pinning down the 2nd Marine Division...not bad!)
After the fall of Kaimana the allies have now several options: they can proceed North towards Sorong or the Mollucces, or they can move NW, bypassing Timor and aiming at Kendari... i'm doing all my best in order to be ready.
We've had a pretty intense air battle over Ambon on the 25th. 75 P-47s swept the skies of that base, obtaining an astonishing 50-2[:o]... but the Liberators that followed were'nt so lucky and we killed 26 of them. Not bad

I still think he may try something in the CENTPAC. Woleai was reconned and attacked by 4Es... Wake and Makin are both heavy reconned and several DDs are operating east of Wake...testing the waters...

We have created a decent reserve in the Mariannas, with 2 CAs and 15 DDs, along with 500 planes. Pagan, Saipan, Tinian and Guam they all have at least 500 AVs, with heavy arty, support units and 5 or 6 forts.Not bad

We've also re-created the Mini-KB. 5 CVEs are operating togheder with 70 Zeros and 60 D4Y4s. For the moment they are all stationing at Java, along with a decent SAG (1 BB, 3 CAs and 2 CLs + 10 DDs) so to be able to get to the Southern DEI or to Sumatra very fast if needed.

The KB is operating South of Babeldoap... to keep him honest in his advance towards Sarmi (North of Hollandia), while the build-up of my Mindanao defensive line continues.

Supply convoys are running everywhere in order to keep my units in force...but it's clearly becoming a problem...my Empire loses an average of 20k supplies every turn[X(][X(][X(]

Burma seems pretty quiet.. 3 new Bdes arrived at Bankok and are now securing the coast of Thailand.

I've also found out, probably, why the Kami got activated... i haven't conquered all the bases in the PI...so when 1944 rolled in, the Kami got activated cause there were allied bases close to Saigon...defently something that should be corrected.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Erik, i didn't have to push Brad or to convince him in order to accept this HR. We even didn't have an HR about night bombing when we started...simply we both found it "borked" and none of us use night bombing even if we never talked or agreed about it. Few months ago, when 1943 we almost over, we talked about it and we decide not to ruin our game.
When me and Rader did attempt to test the night bombing in our previous game, we easily found it was too easy to wreck Japan...and we were talking about a Japan who was very advanced technologically speaking...Even with jet NFs Rader wasn't able not only to stop, but even to slow down the masses of 4Es that destroyed chirurgically all his factories at night... and so we decided to stop it.
I think even for the allies it's more fun to try to wreck japanese economy against an opponent who has the ability to try to stop/slow him....

I get this but even playing Japan I think there has to be a concession to allow some kind of night bombing of Manpower at some point. Maybe not factories, as the precision stuff is whacked, for sure. Manpower destruction is more egalitarian, so a lot of stuff is wiped out but nothing the player can control. This randomness and the slowness of the destruction compared to direct oil/HI/factory means that for me this is a good compromise. We haven't formally HRed this in my game with Jocke, but he seems also judicious about his use of night-bombing. He tries to get manpower when he can. My recent rant about Miri was due to not having any manpower there to hit and him attacking the oil directly.

To not allow any really goes too far toward the Japanese side I think where we can build so many fighters the Allied pools get ridiculously whittled, and if the industrial stuff can only be hit in daylight, it's nearly impossible. Also the later B-29 models really can't protect themselves in the daylight, so that is a problem.

We each have to figure out what works for us, but Jocke and Torsten in my games have been great at considering and reconsidering situations to get the best experience throughout the game. I don't want to limit their side either so they're too bitter when my guys sink a CV or turn back an invasion.

Maybe a limit on number of bomber per attack to help things can work also.

I understand what u mean Erik and i agree with the fact that the allies do not have to be nerfed by too many HRs. At the same time i didn't have to ask for this. Nor Brad. We simply think the same about night bombing. We haven't performed a night bombing mission since dec 7 1941 and this game has just been fine, for both of us. In 1942 Japan, for example, could easily use those superhuman early navy pilots to bomb, with 800kg bombs, the allied fleet in ports at night but i never tried it because i felt it was not kosher...just as Brad never tried to wreck my AFs in Burma at night when he wasn't able to do so during the day.
For strat bombing it's more or less the same. Far too precise. Far too easy to take out a Whole city in a single night... as you have just starting to experience in your game with Joc.
However i'll raise again the problem with Brad and see if he's still ok with it or if he thinks this HR is, somehow, unbalancing the game

Ark and I simply limited it to one unit per theater per turn. This left the novelty in and created some use for the scads of night fighters I have but did not let it get out of hand. There is a valid argument to allow the Allies more flexibility in 1945 but to be truthful, even in a scen 2 sort of situation I do not think the Allies need night strategic bombing to win the game-or to enjoy it for that matter.

I would think it would be simple to nerf both the accuracy of night bombing and raise the op losses and missed missions as well in a future patch but really do not know the limitations on the game and will leave that decision to the folks who do the hard work.

[koniu]

Supply convoys are running everywhere in order to keep my units in force...but it's clearly becoming a problem...my Empire loses an average of 20k supplies every turn[X(][X(][X(]

To many. If You will lose supplies so fast You will be out of supplies in 4-5 months.
And after that only darkness.

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: koniu

Supply convoys are running everywhere in order to keep my units in force...but it's clearly becoming a problem...my Empire loses an average of 20k supplies every turn[X(][X(][X(]

To many. If You will lose supplies so fast You will be out of supplies in 4-5 months.
And after that only darkness.

I think it all depends on the refineries not producing supplies. I produce 26k supplies every turn and there is no way I can do better.
I may stop building forts in the HI... but am not so sure that would change much the overall situation. However i'll try to save a bit more... we'll see

[GreyJoy]

Jan 28, 1944

Ok, our predictions were correct: Several enemy TFs (including CVs) popped up 10 hexes east of Wake Island. They are coming...

We've just had the time to resupply Wake (thanks God), which now have 30K supplies and a decent combat garrison... let's see.
The KB is fighting against subs south of Bab...we're pretty close. I may spring eastwards and try to catch them as they land... subs are gathering into position...

Brad is also testing our search capabilities west of Sumatra...

Several LSI(L)s arrived at Akyab... Are they finally coming for Ramree? Or Moulmein?

In the Southern DEI the USMC Paras conquered Misol (north of Boela), while 75 P-47s swept Sorong, losing 15 of them for 50 Japanese fighters... not good.

The J5M5 is online, along with the KI-43 IV
2 more days and the Grace will start its production

[koniu]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

ORIGINAL: koniu

Supply convoys are running everywhere in order to keep my units in force...but it's clearly becoming a problem...my Empire loses an average of 20k supplies every turn[X(][X(][X(]

To many. If You will lose supplies so fast You will be out of supplies in 4-5 months.
And after that only darkness.

I think it all depends on the refineries not producing supplies. I produce 26k supplies every turn and there is no way I can do better.
I may stop building forts in the HI... but am not so sure that would change much the overall situation. However i'll try to save a bit more... we'll see

There is many places when You can save supplies.

1.Check if Your air units using drop tanks. Single fighter units can use ~50 supplies daily flying CAP or training, with drop tanks it is doubled.

If You have 20 air groups You can save 1000 supplies daily or more.

2. Need to confirm that but probably units in rest mode using less supplies. So check Manchuria units what mode they are.

3. Supply spoilage. Check if You not overstocking supplies is small bases that not need them. You will awoid spoilage

It is not much but it is better than nothing

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: koniu

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

ORIGINAL: koniu



To many. If You will lose supplies so fast You will be out of supplies in 4-5 months.
And after that only darkness.

I think it all depends on the refineries not producing supplies. I produce 26k supplies every turn and there is no way I can do better.
I may stop building forts in the HI... but am not so sure that would change much the overall situation. However i'll try to save a bit more... we'll see

There is many places when You can save supplies.

1.Check if Your air units using drop tanks. Single fighter units can use ~50 supplies daily flying CAP or training, with drop tanks it is doubled.

If You have 20 air groups You can save 1000 supplies daily or more.

2. Need to confirm that but probably units in rest mode using less supplies. So check Manchuria units what mode they are.

3. Supply spoilage. Check if You not overstocking supplies is small bases that not need them. You will awoid spoilage

It is not much but it is better than nothing

The drop tanks suggestion is really a good one Koniu! Never thought of that! Thank you

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: koniu

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
KI-48b: 140

Ki-48b bombers. I hope You misspell and actual You building Ki-49IIB

Ki-48 sucks with those 100kg bombs

Sure, I meant the Ki 49IIB!

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Something strange happened and neither me or brad are able to explain it: Kamikaze got activated[&:] He's still far away from HI, Saigon or Mariannas and, despite that, i managed to activate a sentai of Oscars...who were sent to action...sinking 1 PC and 1 xAP at Molu, losing 25 of them... was just an attempt in order to see if they were really active...and they are! How can it be possible?
I decided not to use them anymore for the moment (a part from that single 36 planes sentai)...doesn't seem right. The Kamis were a desperate weapon...and Japan is still far from being in a desperate situation.

Any ideas of how were they activated?

I recall that there has to be an Allied hex within 20 hexes of Saigon, Formosa, the HI or one other location (it's in the manual) after January 1, 1944. I think this hex has to have either a size 1 airfield or port (I think the latter). What do you have within this zone?

If it's clearly spelled out in the rules, then it's OK by me. You're kind to restrict your Kamikazes for now, but you certainly aren't morally obliged to hold back on your most powerful weapon because of some game SNAFU that didn't happen.

Kamis are a waste of HIs at the moment CB. I still have a decent pool of good pilots and not enough Sentais to spare. The fewer planes I lose, the better.

Take the Oscars for example. Even if outdated and outclassed, they still can be very usefull for escort missions or, at worst, for LowNav attack missions against un-capped targets. Converting Sentais to Kami role (remember that once you convert you cannot go back) it will just weaken my overall air defence at the moment