Reporting bugs (post v.1.02)

[NeverMan]

Did the bug of garrison factor disappearing from ceded provinces when access was terminated ever get fix? Is this in 1.03? I have 1.02k and it's still happening. I was ceded three provinces by Turkey, all of which had garrison factors in several cities and depots too (one of which I placed AFTER the war was already over). The all just disappeared when the temp access time was up. Just wondering.

[Marshall Ellis]

Neverman:
 
I have added a message in 1.03 because what looks to be happening is that the garrisons are being transfered out to other city locations and/or possible being added to other garrisons if space is available. The good news is that you should NOT be losing them.
 

[NeverMan]

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

Neverman:

I have added a message in 1.03 because what looks to be happening is that the garrisons are being transfered out to other city locations and/or possible being added to other garrisons if space is available. The good news is that you should NOT be losing them.

That is good news, but not having them moved would be better. Just the fact that depots (supplying Corps) are removed and then I have to move the Corps or re-create the depot (costing MP money) and then take time to re-garrison the provinces I have already garrisoned. Can't wait for 1.03, the game is getting sharper.

[Marshall Ellis]

Neverman:
 
What would you propose we do with them when the temp access runs out?
 
 

[Jimmer]

Garrisons should be vaporized.
 
Corps should be allowed to continue movement, so long as:
 
1)  They are heading directly home, and
2)  They are moving at the maximum possible speed (without forced marches).

[NeverMan]

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

Neverman:

What would you propose we do with them when the temp access runs out?

In my case, they should be left where they are. If you are ceded a province by a Sue For Peace why should your depots be destroyed and forces sent back home in those provinces that you NOW own, UNLESS of course, there is a rule I am missing.

If you have forces left in areas you don't control then by all means, send them home and destroy the depots.

[Jimmer]

I want to correct my statement: I didn't notice the "ceded province" part of the question.
 
So, I agree with NeverMan: Keep them. The problem is a bug or logic flaw, not a programming decision.

[Marshall Ellis]

Wait! I missed the ceded province portion as well.
 
Jimmer: The problem with the corps is that I could not really make him move in one direction or make him move at all. The auto-evac is basically me making him move.
Are you sure you would vaporize garrisons? You get a city size of 4-5 and that could be a lot of inf???
 
 

[Jimmer]

Actually, there are two problems:
 
1)  End of 3-months movement, and
2)  Bug where factors/corps are repatriated from a ceded province the current player owns
 
For the bug (# 2), send them to the person's home nation or something. But, fix the bug, too, so it no longer happens. People should be able to garrison their own property.
 
For the end of 3 free months worth of movement (#1), yes, vaporize them. If the owner couldn't pick them up in time, that's his problem. However, for this to work, he may have to move something IN to the territory (a corps to pick up the factors), so make sure that's allowed. Alternately, all the owner to place a corps with garrison factors as if it were his home nation (for the 3 months only). These could be very difficult to code.
 
So, before implementing "vaporize them" (for problem number 1, now), make sure all potential avenues properly exist to get them out.
 
NOTE: It is entirely possible that a person cannot move out in time with only three months. The original rules basically said you had to move them out by the most direct route. There was no time limit. For a war against Russia, for instance, France can easily require more than 3 months to get them home. If at war with GB, he may have to march them overland, even if they originally squeezed in from sea.
 
So, as a compromize, using "3 months, then repatriate randomly" is reasonable (I think this is the way you currently do it).

[NeverMan]

I don't agree with the vaporization and I'll tell you why:

WINTER MOVEMENT. Corps move at 1 space a turn in the winter. If the MP surrenders in the winter 3 months is not enough time. Think if you just took Moscow? You aren't going to get your Corps out in time, much less some factors scattered here and there on depots and in cities. Getting out of Russia starting at Moscow or St. Petes if you are Turkey or Austria is hard enough in 3 months in non-winter months without having to forage.

Personally, I think the temp access should be 6 months OR you should move them to their own country. 3 months and vaporization is not fair IMO.

[currerij]

There is a major bug in the 1.02k release. I am not sure exactly the root cause, but when a major power surrenders, the game then freezes during the Spanish build phase. This does not happen for every war, but when it does, it is consistant. Even if you go back to a previous turn, when the power unconditionally surrenders, it still occurs. Attached is zip file with last save I made. The game cannot get past the Turkish surrender.

[Marshall Ellis]

currerij:
 
I have loaded this game and have seen the lock up!
I am looking into this and will advise...
 
 
 
 

[j-s]

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

currerij:

I have loaded this game and have seen the lock up!
I am looking into this and will advise...

I have same situation here. Game freeze during spanish build phase.

[pzgndr]

Garrisons should be vaporized.

Vaporized may not be a good term. Could garrisons just become prisoners when temp access runs out? Then, because a state of war does not exist, they should automatically be released. Those factors could then become available the following turn.

[delatbabel]

ORIGINAL: NeverMan

I don't agree with the vaporization and I'll tell you why:

WINTER MOVEMENT. Corps move at 1 space a turn in the winter. If the MP surrenders in the winter 3 months is not enough time. Think if you just took Moscow? You aren't going to get your Corps out in time, much less some factors scattered here and there on depots and in cities. Getting out of Russia starting at Moscow or St. Petes if you are Turkey or Austria is hard enough in 3 months in non-winter months without having to forage.

Personally, I think the temp access should be 6 months OR you should move them to their own country. 3 months and vaporization is not fair IMO.

No, since they fixed up Domodedovo airport, getting out of Moscow is much easier than it used to be. Oh hang on, you mean in the early 19th Century! Doh!

Seriously though, the original EiA rules do in fact state that garrisons that are not picked up and/or moved out of the occupied nation within 3 months are eliminated. Vaporised being too strong a word I guess for the original writers of those rules.

However EiA didn't implement winter movement, so I'm not sure how they should tie together.

[NeverMan]

ORIGINAL: delatbabel

ORIGINAL: NeverMan

I don't agree with the vaporization and I'll tell you why:

WINTER MOVEMENT. Corps move at 1 space a turn in the winter. If the MP surrenders in the winter 3 months is not enough time. Think if you just took Moscow? You aren't going to get your Corps out in time, much less some factors scattered here and there on depots and in cities. Getting out of Russia starting at Moscow or St. Petes if you are Turkey or Austria is hard enough in 3 months in non-winter months without having to forage.

Personally, I think the temp access should be 6 months OR you should move them to their own country. 3 months and vaporization is not fair IMO.

However EiA didn't implement winter movement, so I'm not sure how they should tie together.

EXACTLY MY POINT!!

Winter Movement is something that most games I am in are playing with. You simply CANNOT get from Moscow to AU/TU in 3 moves (1 move/turn in winter movement months). I'm just making this case because this kept happening to me in an solo game I was playing against the AI.

[Jimmer]

ORIGINAL: pzgndr

Garrisons should be vaporized.

Vaporized may not be a good term. Could garrisons just become prisoners when temp access runs out? Then, because a state of war does not exist, they should automatically be released. Those factors could then become available the following turn.

That's an excellent idea, I suspect. I think that should remove some of the programming barriers to implementing the other ideas that have been presented.

Good thinking!

[Jimmer]

ORIGINAL: NeverMan

3 months and vaporization is not fair IMO.

I agree, and said so in my post. 3 months and gone is NOT the complete contents of that post. In order for that to work, 3 months has to go bye-bye, and be replaced by a system that allows the person to get the troops home. The original rules say that you have to move them directly towards your nation, and you had 6 months to do it. The game would have to have some set of processes by which the person could get them home.

My post did not address what that process would be, only that it needed to be there (and, it provided an example). But, Pzgndr posted an idea that WOULD work (3 months and then make them prisoners).

NOTE: The corps counter itself would also have to be considered a prisoner, though. Otherwise, one could lose cavalry or guard by not having a place to put them the next month. This could be alleviated by having them become prisoners at the beginning of an econ month only. Then, the player would have a chance to re-purchase the corps counter(s) for the following month, when the factors would be returning.

[pzgndr]

I guess while I'm on a roll with ideas, how about for corps units they're automatically displaced toward their home country when temp access runs out after 3 months?  This gives the player a chance to manually move them, else they get moved for him which may or may not be to an ideal province.  That would keep unit counters intact and avoid having to deal with other programming issues?
 

[Marshall Ellis]

What about garrisons in provincial capitals at surrender?
Do they become prisoners (effectively going to the reinf pool)?