Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464

[Frandoxxx]

Bear with me new player here who has never gotten that far into the game yet, but will soon! [:D]

So what happens to the fuel once it reaches Singapore? Do you keep it all there to supply your fleets in the area? Do you ship all or most back to Honshu?

Do you keep 50 pecent in Singapore for fleet actions and ship 50 percent back to Honshu?

What sort of Task Force do you then need to shuttle the fuel/oil from Singapore to Honshu? [&:]

Before I got into AE did not realize how much fun you could have with oil transportation!

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: Frandoxx
Before I got into AE did not realize how much fun you could have with oil transportation!

That's funny! [:D]

The majority of the folks around here feel that the small TKs should be used to ship oil/fuel to major hubs (bases) and then from there to where it's needed. I do that, with a twist. I don't think there are enough small TKs (Type-1 TS or 1250 capacity) so I am going to try using the slow TKs (small and Manzu TM or 7950 capacity - 12 kts). They both have the same ratio of capacity to tonnage (1.11) so it shouldn't matter, other than with the very small ports.

My goal is to base a large part of the IJN in the SRA when not on missions. All fuel for the fleet comes from the SRA. I'll keep a fuel reserve (I currently have no idea how much) for the fleet. All unrefined oil and all excess fuel will go to the Home Islands. That's where the large, fast TKs come into play. The major hubs (Singapore, Formosa, Manila, Babeldoab(?)) will ship the fuel/oil by fast TK to the Home Islands.

The SRA will produce ~600k fuel a month. That is, by far, most of fuel produced by the Japanese. The initial Japanese holdings need ~137k, fuel a month just to keep the HI fueled. I'd say, 2-300k fuel will need to go to the Home Islands a month. Basically, those fast TKs will be hauling oil and fuel constantly.

[BrucePowers]

You live for this stuff, don't you?[:D]

[Mike Solli]

Yeah, when I can.  It's been slow today.  I worked my butt off last week and got ahead of the curve.  I was able to relax a bit today.

[thegreatwent]

Hi Mike,

I may have missed it but I'm planning on sending the 4th to Manila. What do your plans entail?

[Mike Solli]

I am sending the minimum to the Philippines. The 4th and the 38th will go to Java early, mid to late Jan I hope. Everything else basically to Malaya to clear out Singapore. We'll see how it works out.....

[vlcz]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli
I just played around with some numbers concerning Palembang. ....
... Here's my solution (please let me know what you think):
3x Manzu TM (7950 capacity)
2x Type-1 TS (1250 capacity)
1x To'so PB
This gives each TF a total capacity of 26,350. The distance to Singapore is 7 hexes, 1.5 days for a 12kt convoy. It'll take 2 days to load and 1 day to unload, and finally 1.5 days to return to Palembang. That's 6 days per run, or 5 runs per month. ...
What do you think?

I dont make (unwilling, unable...[8|]) to make so exact calculations but its very similar to my results... I simply taked a big bunch 7950 and some 1250 TK to palembang and made TF to the maximun size on docked capacity, a Naval support unit just arrived there to help with handling

My current full "liquid dispositive" completes with....
- Tarakan to brunei (1 x 7950)
- Miri to brunei (one 2x1250 for fuel and another for oil)
- Brunei to japan 1 x 10k+TK... currently thinking about substituting with some 7950 to singers...load times are killing me

- Balikpapan/Samarinda fuel is being hauled by AO to support fleet operations two replenishment fleets are almost constantly moving between balik and truk. Quite a lot of Naval support is in balikpapan

- Soerabaja fuel/oil is still not being put seriously on use (not controlled for so long) , Naval support is moving there and probabbly some 10k+ TK will be redirected here.

- Now every 10k+ TK that I cant find sets towards singapore and gets integrated in a well escorted convoy to the homeland.

Secretly hoping you detect some gross fault in my settings more than specting it helps you anyway [:(] [:)]

[bklooste]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

ORIGINAL: Frandoxx
Before I got into AE did not realize how much fun you could have with oil transportation!

That's funny! [:D]

The majority of the folks around here feel that the small TKs should be used to ship oil/fuel to major hubs (bases) and then from there to where it's needed. I do that, with a twist. I don't think there are enough small TKs (Type-1 TS or 1250 capacity) so I am going to try using the slow TKs (small and Manzu TM or 7950 capacity - 12 kts). They both have the same ratio of capacity to tonnage (1.11) so it shouldn't matter, other than with the very small ports.

My goal is to base a large part of the IJN in the SRA when not on missions. All fuel for the fleet comes from the SRA. I'll keep a fuel reserve (I currently have no idea how much) for the fleet. All unrefined oil and all excess fuel will go to the Home Islands. That's where the large, fast TKs come into play. The major hubs (Singapore, Formosa, Manila, Babeldoab(?)) will ship the fuel/oil by fast TK to the Home Islands.

The SRA will produce ~600k fuel a month. That is, by far, most of fuel produced by the Japanese. The initial Japanese holdings need ~137k, fuel a month just to keep the HI fueled. I'd say, 2-300k fuel will need to go to the Home Islands a month. Basically, those fast TKs will be hauling oil and fuel constantly.

The main reason on the thread was that someone measured the fuel usage and the smaller ships pretty much used what they carried for long voyages though this applied a bit more to the allies

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: vlcz

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli
I just played around with some numbers concerning Palembang. ....
... Here's my solution (please let me know what you think):
3x Manzu TM (7950 capacity)
2x Type-1 TS (1250 capacity)
1x To'so PB
This gives each TF a total capacity of 26,350. The distance to Singapore is 7 hexes, 1.5 days for a 12kt convoy. It'll take 2 days to load and 1 day to unload, and finally 1.5 days to return to Palembang. That's 6 days per run, or 5 runs per month. ...
What do you think?

I dont make (unwilling, unable...[8|]) to make so exact calculations but its very similar to my results... I simply taked a big bunch 7950 and some 1250 TK to palembang and made TF to the maximun size on docked capacity, a Naval support unit just arrived there to help with handling

My current full "liquid dispositive" completes with....
- Tarakan to brunei (1 x 7950)
- Miri to brunei (one 2x1250 for fuel and another for oil)
- Brunei to japan 1 x 10k+TK... currently thinking about substituting with some 7950 to singers...load times are killing me

- Balikpapan/Samarinda fuel is being hauled by AO to support fleet operations two replenishment fleets are almost constantly moving between balik and truk. Quite a lot of Naval support is in balikpapan

- Soerabaja fuel/oil is still not being put seriously on use (not controlled for so long) , Naval support is moving there and probabbly some 10k+ TK will be redirected here.

- Now every 10k+ TK that I cant find sets towards singapore and gets integrated in a well escorted convoy to the homeland.

Secretly hoping you detect some gross fault in my settings more than specting it helps you anyway [:(] [:)]

This is good info. A couple of questions though. What's your game time? Also, do you have enough TKs to do the job or are you using AOs to send fuel to Truk because of the lack of TKs? Have you converted the Std-Cs yet?

[vlcz]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli
This is good info. A couple of questions though. What's your game time? Also, do you have enough TKs to do the job or are you using AOs to send fuel to Truk because of the lack of TKs? Have you converted the Std-Cs yet?

16/03/42 - And I am beginning to realise there are no sufficient TKs for the job (specially now that my oponent is beginning to concentrate subs in their route...) , I use the AOs for truk/babel/kwaj because the main fleet (KB and Combined) is over there so I have the AOs occupied and at my inmediate disposal -only half of them are doing the run at the same time- .

I will convert the std-C for sure, this is an idea I borrowed from one of your posts [8|] and definitelly they will be put to good use

[Mike Solli]

30 Dec 41
 
This was a very interesting turn.  Not everything I had hoped would happen did, but it was still interesting.
 
Reinforcements:
-28 Mountain Gun Regiment (Harbin) - Kwantung Army
-Maizuru 2 SNLF (Kwajalein) - Really odd.  That unit landed at (and is garrisoning) Wake, but it appeared at Kwajalein with 4 SNLF squads and 4 support squads.
-II/84 Naval Guard (Saipan) - headed to Truk.
-Hong Kong Det (Tokyo) - 30 Avn spt that'll be around for a couple of months.
-31 Special Base Force (Takao) - is heading to Billiton
-Wotje Base Force (Wotje)
-Kwajalein Base Force (Kwajalein)
-Jaluit Base Force (Jaluit)
-Maleolap Base Force (Maleolap)
-50 JNAF Co (Tokyo)
 
Suva
 
A midget sub attempted unsuccessfully to enter the harbor.  Some day.....
 
Hawaii
 
The I-2 put 3 torps into the AK Steel Voyager.  I love subs in this game!  Well, until US subs become effective....
 
Philippines
 
I took Legaspi and Manila, both deserted.  It looks like Ted is going to defend Clark Field and then withdraw into Bataan. 
 
I attacked Bayombong (where the isolated 11 PA Division was) and captured that unit, yielding 5300 prisoners to 30 Japanese casualties.
 
I attacked Clark Field, getting only 1:2 odds.  Ted brought their forts to level 1 again.  I lost 562 to 363 Allied casualties.  While I have plenty of supporting units, I have only 2 infantry regiments there (from the 48 Div).  If Ted only knew how weak I was in infantry there.  The 65 Bde as well as the remaining regiment of the 48 Div are now enroute to that hex.  I was hoping to take Clark Field cutting off about half a dozen units that I could kill outside of Bataan.  That ain't happening any time soon.  He is getting weaker each day though.
 
Hong Kong
 
I had hoped to take Hong Kong today, but that wasn't meant to be either.  I tried a shock attack and got only 1:1 odds, although I did knock down the forts to level 0 again.  I lost 190 to 525 Brits.  His strength is weakening daily.  I'll bombard a couple of days and then try again. 
 
Malaya
 
Things are progressing here.  I took Georgetown, destroying 3 units in the process, including 2 infantry battalions.  I captured 3100 for no loss to the IG Div. 
 
In addition, I attacked the beat up 22 Indian Bde at Temuloh, in central Malaya, killing 337 for no loss.  The remnants of the bde retreated south toward Singapore.  Just about all my forces are on the rail lines heading south at a decent clip toward Singapore.
 
Singkawang
 
I attacked and successfully secured the base.  I am working to upgrade the airfield to level 4.  There are now about 113 aircraft based there.  These include Zeros, Oscars, Nells, Babs (naval) and Dinahs.  In addition, the 22 Air Flotilla HQ is present.  The Allies lost 1044 casualties to 147 Japanese.
 
The Billiton Invasion force is loading.  It should happen in early Jan 42.
 
SE Fleet
 
The Pt. Moresby invasion force is 2 days out.
 
4th Fleet
 
Wake finally has a construction unit to begin work on the forts.
 
Other Stuff
 
The last 6 To'so class xAKLs are headed to the Home Islands for conversion to PBs.  I also began conversion of 4 Lima class xAKs to AKVs.  I'll get those in 21 days.  I wish I could begin conversion of ARs.  Not yet...

[crsutton]

Mike,

Which would it hurt more to lose refineries or oil?

[Mike Solli]

In my opinion it would hurt more to lose oil.  The Japanese has excess refinery capacity.  If the Japanese captures the entire SRA and Burma oil centers intact, there would still be excess refinery capacity.  I repair all oil but no refineries.

[Mike Solli]

Duplicate.

[offenseman]

I use the 1250 TKs to take oil/fuel as needed from Medan to Singapore and Miri to Bangkok to keep the HI going there.  I hate using them for long runs because the fuel cost vs. tons transported.  They are useful for those small ports though. I expand Miri to size 3 and leave it there as it will produce all the fuel I need for Bangkok while the convoy is making its run.  Medan I will expand to 4 and run a larger convoy of 1250 ton ships to Singapore and an occasionally as a port of call for an ASW TF I like to run up and down the straights.  

[Mike Solli]

Dec 41 Review
 
Interesting month overall.  In the Philippines, I moved faster than I expected but have been stymied lately.  The opposite has occurred in Malaya.  Things started out at a crawl, but I have broken out lately.  We'll see what happens once I reach Singapore....
 
Concerning ships, the only warship upgrades in Jan 42 are the 9 Fubuki Is.  They are all in Kobe set to upgrade.
 
Now the meat of this post - the economy.
 
Resources
 
I was hurt a bit before patch 2 when 800k resources vanished into the ether.  Yeah, there are a lot of resources, but man do they vanish quickly.  I'm actually producing a surplus of resources now, about 25k per month.  I still am not going to repair any resource centers but so far, I've captured 258 of a posslble 260 resource centers.  Yup, only 2 have been damaged so far, at Nauru Island. 
 
I've started to reconsider the value of moving resources back to Honshu from the SRA.  Honshu is short 3.3 million resources a month.  Late in the war, when the Allies are able to cruise the Japanese coast, Japanese merchant shipping is dead meat.  That means very little resources will flow to Honshu, which means that half the HI centers will cease to operate.  That's almost 300k supply a month that is gone, not to mention half the HI for the war economy.  A significant surplus can postpone that.  I think I am going to attempt to move as many resources to Honshu as possible.  I still am not going to repair damaged resource centers, not yet.
 
My current on hand # of resources is 6.46 million, down 900k.  Given that I lost most of that, I'm not unhappy with that.  I'm not doing too badly moving them either with a 1.1 month reserve at Honshu (vs. 1.2 months at the start of the war) and the fact that I had to spend about a week to set up the convoys.  Hokkaido is up about 300k and Indochina is up about 50k.  I'll have to adjust those convoys a bit.
 
Overall, I'm happy with resource movement.
 
Oil
 
Oil supply is a battle you are going to lose.  If you take all of the SRA and Burma oil fields intact you will still refine about 120k more oil points than you get each month.  Don't build any refineries!  I still firmly believe that you need to ship every excess oil point to Honshu that you can.  Fuel should be second priority.  We'll talk fuel in a minute.
 
I've done well with the two oil centers I've captured.  Brunei was captured with no loss (10) and the capability of increasing by an additional 10, which I have done.  Miri was captured at 149 (1) with the ability of increasing it by an additional 150.  It currently stands at 157(143).  I ran into a problem with the supply flowing from Miri to Brunei (Brunei has a larger port).  I have fixed this by increasing the supply draw at Miri to suck it back to Miri.  I'll keep supply flowing into Miri and repair all of the oil.  The refineries at Brunei and Miri were 10(10) and 149(151).  I repaired one refinery at Miri just because I like round numbers. [:D]
 
The monthly oil defecit (based on the refinery capacity) is 235k (down from 243k last month).  Like I said above, it'll get better, but it'll never go away.
 
Fuel
 
I underestimated fuel (actually I never really thought that much about it).  It didn't dawn on me that the fuel levels could climb where there were refineries.  The only places it may be a concern are Manchuoko and, to a lesser extent, Kyushu.  Right now, China/Manchuoko/Korea (C/M/K) are stable, but that may not last.  I'll have to keep an eye on it.  Kyushu's fuel is slowly rising, but is not a concern yet.  It also didn't dawn on me how much fuel is used by the merchant fleet.  I am going to have to plan for that and ship fuel (using xAKs) to the islands that need it.  I plan on using the stores in Kyushu first and then pull from Pt. Arthur (where there is a 120 point refinery).
 
My fuel reserves dropped by 440k this month.  About 100k was used for industry and the remainder, the fleet.
 
Supply
 
I was pleasantly surprised here.  Supply rose modestly by 112k.  I am very stingy about economic changes that cost supply (which is everything).  I did splurge on increasing Tokyo's repair shipyard by 10.  I'll set aside 80k of that surplus for expansion next month.  30k will go to Miri's oil fields.  I haven't decided what to do with the rest of it yet.
 
Other stuff
 
Manpower:  807 (+10 - I don't repair any of these)
Manpower points:  107,498 (+85,086)
Heavy Industry:  6954 (+4 - Georgetown)
HI Points:  60,613 (+30,294 - after an 18k drop for pilot trainees)
Light Industry:  9460 (+120)
Refineries:  1185 (+150 - Miri)
Resource centers:  14,088 (+258)
Resource Points:  6,172,345 (-785,701)
Oil centers:  401 (+177)
Oil points:  3,021,854 (-210306)
Naval Shipyards:  1384
Nav. Ship. Points:  423 (+423 - dropping by 7 each day - 3 DD & 3 CV accelerated)
Merchant Yards:  807
Merch. Ship. Points:  8672 (+8672 - nothing accelerated)
Ship Repair Yards:  667 (+27 - +7 for Tokyo and 20 for Manila)
Armament centers:  620
Arm. Points:  34,272 (+14,272 - I'm cautious with replacements)
Vehicle centers:  72
Vehicle points:  1867 (+867 - I rebuilt the 2 Tk Reg after half was sunk.  It's completely rebuilt now.)
IJN Pilot pool:  1591 (-109 - many extras in training queue)
IJA Pilot Pool:  1981 (-221 - many extras in training queue)
IJA Group Reserve:  74 (+58)
IJN Group Reserve:  287 (+212)
IJA Reserve:  7 (+7)
IJN Reserve:  19 (+19)
IJA TRACOM:  4 (+4)
IJN TRACOM:  9 (+9)
MIA Pilots:  33 (+33)
WIA Pilots:  19 (+19 - 1 return to duty in addition)
KIA Pilots:  85 (+85)
 
More to come tonight when I have access to more stuff.

[Mike Solli]

31 Dec 41
 
Frustrating turn today.  I wanted to rush things a bit, hoping for an early Hong Kong resolution and send 9 DMS one hex outside of Hong Kong to see if they would sweep mines.  They did so exceedingly well, but then moved into the hex. [:@] The CD guns did a number on them.  7 are gone and another won't last a day.  Only one survived intact (relatively).  Pissed me off.
 
Reinforcements
 
SC CHa-25 at Niigata
xAK Toko Maru at Tokyo
 
China
 
I attacked Chengting with (what I thought) was a pretty good force, but no dice.  I got 1:2 odds and lost 226 to 54 Chinese casualties.
 
Malaya
 
I attacked 2 hexes SE of Kota Bahru, destroying the FSMV Bde and pushing the remaining rabble south, causing 774 to 32 casualties.
 
Elsewhere, my forces are flowing south.
 
Philippines
 
Another disappointing day.  I attacked Iba getting 1:2 odds but at least I lost only 20 troops to 119 Allies.
 
Mindinao
 
I took Dadjangas, killing 160 troops for no loss.  Unfortunately, they didn't surrender, so I need to garrison Dadjangas.
 
Hawaii
 
My subs continue to wreak havoc.  The I-5 put a torpedo into an AG.
 
SE Fleet
 
The Pt. Moresby invasion force will hit tomorrow.  KB is still tooling around guarding the southern flank.  A couple of Allied subs found them.  The US sub didn't do squat but the Dutch sub put a torpedo into the DD Akigumo.  Her damage is 30-51(38)-9(6)-0.  She's heading back to Rabaul (3 days out).  Fingers crossed.
 
Other Stuff
 
The I-123 made it to Davao.  I'm pretty sure she'll survive.  The I-122, on the other hand, is headed to Miri (nearest port).  Her flot damage is up to 94 and she's still 11 days out.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

[:@] The CD guns did a number on them.

After the recent invasion thread - good to know they work.

[Mike Solli]

1 Jan 42

Well, 1941 is over. I still owe you guys some more stats that I'll get to this weekend. There is one bright spot that I want to mention though. I didn't lose anything larger than a PB. No warships were lost. The I-122's survival is in doubt but we'll have to wait and see what happens.

Reinforcement: 37 JNAF AF Unit in Tokyo.

Sub War

Midget subs were released at Dutch harbor (again) and Auckland. Both were lost attempting to penetrate the harbors. On the bright side, the I-22 found and sank a Canadian AM near Dutch harbor, hopefully before she dropped her mines.

Malaya, Philippines, Hong Kong and China

Daily bombing/bombardment. Nothing of note.

Mindinao

The only thing to mention in this area is the stalemate at Manado. I am sending two SNLFs as a reinforcement to oust the Dutch.

5 Fleet

An infantry regiment landed at Etorofu and Paramushiro Jima. The third will land at Kushiro. There is an engineer regiment headed to Paramushiro Jima. More stuff awaiting transport.

SE Fleet

Pt. Moresby was invaded today. Ted was working overtime to stack units there. Below shows his defenses. I suspect I don't have enough strength to take it. I'm going to bombard tomorrow to give my troops some time to lower their disruption. Then I'll attack with KB and bombard with the BBs when the attack does go in. I may try a shock attack, but probably not. I have decided to divert the 4 ID to Pt. Moresby to take the place. I'm not sure what that'll do for the early Java invasion, but the Java invasion isn't going to happen until Hong Kong falls anyway. I may attack Java with the 38 Div, 21 Bde and supporting units.

I think using the 4 ID for Pt. Moresby may work to my favor. Pt. Moresby is doomed. It's just a matter of time. When PM falls, I can grab the 4 Div and send them west past Thursday Island to invade the southern SRA. We'll see....

When the invasion occurred, 6 PBs, a CL and 1 xAK were all hit by CD fire, mostly minor damage. One PB is doomed and a second may not survive either. We'll see.

Six Catalinas attacked the BB TF at Pt. Moresby hitting the Mutsu with a 500 lb bomb. I think the bomb just scraped off some barnacles, because she is showing no damage at all.

Ship Damage Report

Akigumo is still 2.5 days from Rabaul, but repaired a point of flot damage and is currently at 30-50(38)-9(6)-0.

Other Odds 'n Ends

I have a question for the group. With Ryujo out of action for almost 2 months, mini-KB is composed of Hosho and Zuiho. They total 28 Zeros and 22 Kates and are very fragile. They are currently idling at Takao. Do you guys recommend I let them sit and train up their air groups (they're not too bad but there's room for improvement) or should they go on a mission? I'm reluctant to send them out because of the TBs at Singapore as well as the lack of enemy shipping in the entire SRA. I could send them to the SE Fleet area, but I'm not sure what 22 Kates could do. I could add Taiyo (collecting dust in Japan) after putting some planes on her. That would add another 27 planes, but make 3 fragile carriers in one group. Not sure what to do....

[SqzMyLemon]

Hi Mike,

In my game I've used them primarily to escort high priority reinforcing TF's from Japan to different bases or set to training. This is strictly because of the non-existence of any Allied shipping in combat areas, and I don't want to risk them to a lucky torpedo hit. They'd help around Malaya if you are concerned about a British navy appearance at all, or if there's any chance of an Allied raid in a key area of your game I'd have them snooping around there. Otherwise I'd probably just get them training aircrews until you start getting some target rich environments again to pick off strays and draw fire away from more important ships.