What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? Now allowed for Oloren!

[terje439]

Railroads

[Baelfiin]

Looks like a lot of opportunities to grind away to the east and northeast

[randallw]

Oloren is asking for bad side effects with those triple stacks at the front; when they retreat some of the units will have to rout; it also increases fatigue and attrition.

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: Baelfiin

Looks like a lot of opportunities to grind away to the east and northeast

So, I went NorthWest [:D]


Terje

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: randallw

Oloren is asking for bad side effects with those triple stacks at the front; when they retreat some of the units will have to rout; it also increases fatigue and attrition.

Well, it is getting harder to rout them now, it seems that the trimming of # of units is having some effect in that there are now fewer USSR units fighting for the replacements.


Terje

[terje439]

Turn 59

Overall
We keep reducing the pocket, and anticipate its elimination next turn. In the mean time, we switch our panzers NW, and will now deal with the USSR frontline running along the river towards Riga (see below). I doubt we will get any pocket similar to the one we have now, but I think there is a good chance of capturing some more USSR units with this move. We shall see. All in all we made 136 attacks this turn, scoring 14 helds, 57 retreats, 15 routs and 50 surrenders.

USSR units in pockets at start of turn
98 spotted.

USSR units in pockets at end of turn
33 spotted.

Losses
USSR : 452.000 troops, 5.488 guns, 250 AFVs, 280 AC.
Axis : 49.000 troops, 466 guns, 74 AFVs, 80 AC.

USSR units lost
1 cavalry corps, 28 rifle divisions, 2 guards rifle divisions, 9 tank brigades, 29 rifle brigades, 7 naval rifle brigades (515 AP).

Partisans hunted down
6.

German pools
Manpower : 676
Vehicles : 209.372
Armaments : 121.966
Hiwi : 2

[mevstedt]

A closeup of the Vitebsk area would be nice Terje =).

Anyway, how did the small pockets end, did Brad open any of them? From what I can see it seems you destroyed most of those smaller ones (most importantly the Smolensk one).

If you remain idle during mud turns in October you should be able to stack up some manpower for a winter offensive as well but now I'm getting a bit too far ahead.

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: mevstedt

A closeup of the Vitebsk area would be nice Terje =).

Anyway, how did the small pockets end, did Brad open any of them? From what I can see it seems you destroyed most of those smaller ones (most importantly the Smolensk one).

If you remain idle during mud turns in October you should be able to stack up some manpower for a winter offensive as well but now I'm getting a bit too far ahead.

Will show that closeup after next turn (as I once more failed to make a pre-end save...). Nah the small pockets all held, and account for the cav corps, 1 guards rifle div and some regular rifle divs.

First I have to complete the summer before thinking about the winter [:)]


Terje

[terje439]

Turn 60

Overall
The USSR sees the threat and move forces from the Moscow approaches to the NW, but we brush them aside. Speed is however not as high as we would have preferred. We shall have to see how this turns out.
We launch a total of 111 attacks, scoring 19 helds, 66 retreats, 26 surrenders and 8 routs. The results give me a small warning shout about things to come. We get more helds (in terms of %) and less routs each turn now. The OFFENSIVE CV of the USSR is growing as well. I think we might see the USSR try a few counterattacks soon. However, since the main pocket is now reduced to 2 infantry divisions and 1 infantry brigade, we have nigh on 2.5 infantry armies moving to the line now.

USSR units in pockets at start of turn
37.

USSR units in pockets at end of turn
3.

Losses
USSR : 214.000 troops, 2.773 guns, 95 AFVs, 258 AC.
Axis : 49.000 troops, 501 guns, 77 AFVs, 75 AC.

USSR units lost
13 rifle divisions, 4 tank brigades, 15 rifle brigades, 2 naval rifle brigades (235 AP).

Partisans hunted down
4.

German pools
Manpower : 1.511
Vehicles : 208.000
Armaments : 99.942
Hiwi : 13
Armaments are dropping like a stone now. A major concern.

Things to note
Look at the AFV strength of Germany AND the USSR in the picture below!!!
Also note the USSR gun strength, now THAT is a nice read!

[janh]

Nice job!

turn 49:
German OOB: 3.44M men, 34.8k guns, 2823 tanks, 3801 aircraft
USSR OOB: 7.11M men, 73.0k guns, 4693 tanks, 10845 aircraft

turn 56: (two turns after the big Smolensk-Minsk-Gomel-Chernigov pocket closed)
German OOB: 3.50M men, 35.4k guns, 2310 tanks, 3748 aircraft
USSR OOB: 7.18M men, 70.7k guns, 3911 tanks, 11222 aircraft

turn 60:
German OOB: (differences to turn 49)
3.49M men => +40k
34.8k guns => 0
2299 tanks => -500
3721 aircraft => -80

USSR OOB: (differences to turn 49; includes some smaller battles and pockets in turns 49-53)
6.15M men => -1M
57.4k guns => -15.6k
3482 tanks => -1200
11367 aircraft => +500

Unfortunately the turns 49-53 also include several small pockets, some 200k if I guesstimated that right, but I am too lazy to dig that out now. The majority of the losses of the Soviets occured since turn 56, so most is from reduction of the pocket and some from pushing out the main line further and doing this last breakthrough. The majority of German losses occured before turn 56, aka the actual forming of the pocket and fending off the initial counterattacks.

turns
54 Losses USSR : 114.000 troops, 1.283 guns, 181 AFVs, 448 AC. Axis : 42.000 troops, 341 guns, 108 AFVs, 101 AC. USSR units lost 1 rifle D.
55 Losses USSR : 108.000 troops, 1.352 guns, 1422 AFVs, 238 AC. Axis : 40.000 troops, 288 guns, 123 AFVs, 84 AC. USSR units lost 2 rifle D, 1 rifle B, 1 naval rifle B, 1 PVO AA R.
56 Losses USSR : 102.000 troops, 1.331 guns, 147 AFVs, 156 AC. Axis : 45.000 troops, 381 guns, 98 AFVs, 79 AC. USSR units lost 1 rifle D, 1 rifle B.
57 Losses USSR : 556.000 troops, 7.420 guns, 496 AFVs, 160 AC. Axis : 51.000 troops, 500 guns, 138 AFVs, 46 AC. USSR units lost 43 rifle D, 1 guard rifle D, 5 tank B, 33 rifle B, 2 naval rifle B, 1 AT artillery B (675 AP).
58 Losses USSR : 413.000 troops, 5.447 guns, 386 AFVs, 165 AC. Axis : 47.000 troops, 376 guns, 86 AFVs, 82 AC. USSR units lost 33 rifle D, 2 guards rifle D, 8 tank B, 22 rifle B (500 AP).
59 Losses USSR : 452.000 troops, 5.488 guns, 250 AFVs, 280 AC. Axis : 49.000 troops, 466 guns, 74 AFVs, 80 AC. USSR units lost 1 cavalry C, 28 rifle D, 2 guards rifle D, 9 tank B, 29 rifle B, 7 naval rifle B (515 AP).
60 Losses USSR : 214.000 troops, 2.773 guns, 95 AFVs, 258 AC. Axis : 49.000 troops, 501 guns, 77 AFVs, 75 AC. USSR units lost: 13 rifle D, 4 tank B, 15 rifle B, 2 naval rifle B (235AP)


That sums up to:
USSR : 1.959.000 troops, 25094 guns, 2882 AFVs, 1705 AC.
Axis : 323.000 troops, 2853 guns, 704 AFVs, 547 AC.
10% of the Wehrmacht in exchange for >25% of the Red Army... Good loss ratios!

USSR units lost
rifle D: 121
guards rifle D: 4
rifle B: 101
naval rifle B: 12
tank B: 26
cavalry C: 1
AT B: 1
PVO AA R: 1

That speaks for itself... Even if you deduce some part that was not in the pocket, this is still the biggest haul I have ever seen. Amazing punch your Wehrmacht still packs. Looks like you really have a chance to turn this around now. Just keep the tempo up...

[mevstedt]

It's looking good so far Terje. The question is what Brad does now, I don't think he has the troops to contain that breakthrough and the pocket forming on your left flank is likely going to cost him some losses whether you achieve your objectives or not.

Like Janh says, keep the tempo up and you should be able to keep Brad off balance until the mud hits.

One more thing I forgot, you'll need one of the two rail lines going north just keep that in mind.

[Schmart]

I'm a bit surprised not to see any Tank Corps around anywhere. Maybe he's waiting to build them or keeping them back. The early Tank Corps TOE is pretty weak, but the upgrade in Jun (or Jul) 42 should give them enough reason to at least show up.

[ErsteKavallerieDivision]

Amazing performance!

I'm still seeing some of your best infantry divisions resting along the Dvina, with 16th Army. CV of 7, 8, 9, and 10. These could be replaced by regiments and used for your northern pincer.

[randallw]

Having so many forces aligned to the west was asking for the Soviet side to risk disaster, especially with so much in the marshes; trying to retreat without a rail line required maybe three turns after the Axis attack began...too many considering how fast the panzers could move through swooshy tank country.

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: janh

Nice job!

That speaks for itself... Even if you deduce some part that was not in the pocket, this is still the biggest haul I have ever seen. Amazing punch your Wehrmacht still packs. Looks like you really have a chance to turn this around now. Just keep the tempo up...

Thank you. Well the problems I face now are;
1. My panzers are really really depleted, I doubt they are much use in containing pockets after we conclude operations in the north, so they really need some rest.
2. As the minimap shows, there are still ALOT of UUSR units out there [X(]


Terje

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: mevstedt

It's looking good so far Terje. The question is what Brad does now, I don't think he has the troops to contain that breakthrough and the pocket forming on your left flank is likely going to cost him some losses whether you achieve your objectives or not.

Like Janh says, keep the tempo up and you should be able to keep Brad off balance until the mud hits.

One more thing I forgot, you'll need one of the two rail lines going north just keep that in mind.

Well, he has the troops, just not the CV [;)]
I am not sure how much longer I can keep attacking this season, I have to look at things, but my panzers are in desperate care of some R&R now...
Yes, I am aware of the rail needs, I am just backlogged in that area due to the mere size and the time it took to reduce the pocket.


Terje

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: ErsteKavallerieDiv

Amazing performance!

I'm still seeing some of your best infantry divisions resting along the Dvina, with 16th Army. CV of 7, 8, 9, and 10. These could be replaced by regiments and used for your northern pincer.

They could I suppose, but I fear placing regiments on the line. I do not trust Brad at all [:D]
If you look at the losses he has taken in his pockets, there are really not that many tank brigades taken out, so I wonder if he has some tank corps in reserve that I am not spotting. I guess I could really need those inf units elsewhere, but to guard the weaker points of my line.
Will have to look at things when I get the next turn.
Ofc the reason why those divisions are among the highest in terms of CV is that they have just been standing there looking at the USSR across the river [:D]


Terje

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: randallw

Having so many forces aligned to the west was asking for the Soviet side to risk disaster, especially with so much in the marshes; trying to retreat without a rail line required maybe three turns after the Axis attack began...too many considering how fast the panzers could move through swooshy tank country.

Yes, and I think that justified my two armies in the marshes tbh. By keeping my units there, I think Brad thought he was safe as long as he could keep the line in lvl 3 forts.

Terje

[janh]

ORIGINAL: terje439
Thank you. Well the problems I face now are;
1. My panzers are really really depleted, I doubt they are much use in containing pockets after we conclude operations in the north, so they really need some rest.
2. As the minimap shows, there are still ALOT of UUSR units out there [X(]

Terje

Summers is peaking soon, that's right, so a bit of haste is in order. On the other hand, if your Panzers need some refit time, you'll probably need to find the right moment for that. The good part about your position now is to have half of his frontline already fallen to pieces, and the other half soon to follow -- so hopefully you won't face "fort belts" of lvl 2+ for a while and can keep pushing with your infantry. Also 1942 is a very different situation, this time winter is no show stopper, and perhaps by keeping the pressure and advance steady until 1943, you might allow yourself another summer offensive without facing heavy fortifications and a strong Soviet Army? Maybe it all depends on preventing Brad from regaining his balance and turtle?

Regarding the USSR size issue... Sure is, but the units are also poorer on average than in 41, while your's seems to be in rather good shape (if you need to get your own mood up, it always helps to take a long at the Wehrmacht in the "42 GC" scenario...). Also don't forget that the poor Russian C&C also is visible in the size of the command chains they have to maintain to achieve the same the Germans do with less effort: Of the 6.1M remaining, I'd wager some 1M alone, if not more, are HQs and non-combat stuff. Together with your minors, your host is possibly not that much smaller than the Red Army I would guesstimate.

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: janh

1. Summers is peaking soon, that's right, so a bit of haste is in order.
2. On the other hand, if your Panzers need some refit time, you'll probably need to find the right moment for that.
3. The good part about your position now is to have half of his frontline already fallen to pieces, and the other half soon to follow -- so hopefully you won't face "fort belts" of lvl 2+ for a while and can keep pushing with your infantry.
4. Also 1942 is a very different situation, this time winter is no show stopper, and perhaps by keeping the pressure and advance steady until 1943, you might allow yourself another summer offensive without facing heavy fortifications and a strong Soviet Army? Maybe it all depends on preventing Brad from regaining his balance and turtle?

5. Regarding the USSR size issue... Sure is, but the units are also poorer on average than in 41, while your's seems to be in rather good shape (if you need to get your own mood up, it always helps to take a long at the Wehrmacht in the "42 GC" scenario...). Also don't forget that the poor Russian C&C also is visible in the size of the command chains they have to maintain to achieve the same the Germans do with less effort: Of the 6.1M remaining, I'd wager some 1M alone, if not more, are HQs and non-combat stuff. Together with your minors, your host is possibly not that much smaller than the Red Army I would guesstimate.

1. This goes together with #5 really, I need haste, but the USSR has so many units out there that I feel like the map is covered in molasses atm...
2. They will be pulled as soon as operations in the north are done.
3. Infantry is pushing, and only in the south is he dug in properly.
4. I intend to launch another offensive in winter [;)]
5. Alas, they do not need to be of proper strength, as said in #1, speed is vital, and even a 1CV brigade forces me to use precious MP in dislodging it, and the USSR does have the advantage of railroads, so the sheer number of USSR counters is an issue, but we will keep attacking [:)]


Terje