GD1938 Game 6

[ernieschwitz]

True. All of it.

The problem with a consensus victory is that it allows freedom of action. Bomburs and my experiences with that kind of freedom of action, was that it usually led to the Soviets and the Axis teaming up permanently and beating up on the western allies.

That was one of the reasons for the implementation of the victory conditions, as they stand now. And believe me, they were not easy to program, and I think that it is too early to dismiss them out of hand.

[ernieschwitz]

Imagine one of the most simple victory conditions one could set up for a multiplayer game of 3 sides.

Side A must defeat Side B
Side B must defeat Side C
Side C must defeat Side A

Looks good doesn´t it? But what happens if side A decides, it doesn´t care about its victory conditions, and chooses to ally with side B. Side B gets all of Side As land and troops. To the game it will seem like Side B has defeated Side A. And victory would be handed out to Side B.

All because Side A decided not to play by what was his victory conditions...

EDIT: I think I made a logic error somewhere... but my point is still the same. If one player decides not to play by the rules, everything breaks down.

EDIT2: Yeah I found the error. If Side A gives everything to Side B, the game will register Side A is no more, and Side C will win.

[ironduke1955]

Machiavelli would argue with the concepts of rules in war. But I applaud the attempt to bring structure to something that could easily break down into a series of arguments over trivial advantage. As to the Axis of Evil the Soviet Union Germany Italy and Japan. As I have recently been in a alliance that defeated that coalition, I am always prone to think that no problem is insurmountable, if all things start of equal. To award a victory to one nation based on local objectives might be considered erroneous. I don't think that fighting in Europe would have stopped because China defeated Japan. Its a local rivalry that in the context of our game China has won. That does not mean the end of the second world war only a local victory for China and good for them.

[ernieschwitz]

Oh I agree completely. China having beaten Japan (as the game would register it) would be monumentous, but not something that ended the war...

Maybe I can program something to let the game be played even after a local victory has been declared. I´ll think about it, in fact I already have begun thinking about it.

EDIT: That is, it could continue to be played already as is. But it would give a victory message each turn... which is of course something I could abolish.

[cpdeyoung]

Thank's Ironduke, but my reaction was to my own errors. I underestimated my enemy, a classic error, and one that I can blame on a silly perception that China was as weak as in the actual war. China was, and is , played very well, and I want to give full credit to Jonathan.

I have not given up in any sense, and now have a chance to post the turn 44 shots. First the butchers bill. You can imagine the loss of seven carriers hurt. Unprecedented loss I think, and all because I ignored the possibility of a "sneak" attack. I also did not think my interception would be so ineffective.

[cpdeyoung]

China sent me a message to explain the decision to go to war. I decided to simply fight it out, and I will be posting about our conflict as we fight it out.

[ironduke1955]

I am trying to grasp how seven carriers were lost did you attack a Japanese fleet, With a airstrike or with a conventional naval combat.
If it was a airstrike you would have no casualties. I tend to take carriers into strike range launch the strike then pull back to safety.

Correction you may lose planes to land based or carrier CAP or AA.

[cpdeyoung]

Gown announces a major step in the European Campaign. Here is a situation map.

[cpdeyoung]

GOWN analytical services.

The carriers were behind a screen of subs and powerful surface vessels. There were Chinese subs about, but the CV task forces had ASW escorts, and all aircraft were on 75 interception. When the airstrike came from Hainan the CAP was nonexistent, both from land based and CV based. I am not saying they did not fly, but they did not defend their charges. A huge number of "minor warships" went down in the airstrike. Then the subs attacked, with some surface components. These were very big submarine fleets, think 200+ SP, and four TFs attacked. the fleets were destroyed.

There was no excuse for the vessels to be out there, especially since command knew subs were about, but we thought the escorts were enough. The airstrike devastated them and all was over.

The airstrike was a gigantic strike of DB3s and they had a field day. Command will certainly not count on interception to protect vessels again. Three Lo Bombers were killed. All the carriers were loaded with aircraft, most were naval fighter 3, and all were lost. Many carriers were CV2, which were the pride of the fleet, and produced at great cost and effort. All carrier and land based air were fresh, remember we were at peace. The lack of interception was a shock, as we were (foolishly) depending on it. We expected the enemy air attack to take big losses - not so.

---- For USSR eyes only ---- GOWN analytical services.

[cpdeyoung]

GOWN announces some success in Turkey also, where Ankara has fallen. Greece has joined our "Crusade in Europe".

[cpdeyoung]

GOWN announces the counter-strike in Indochina against the attacking Chinese.

[cpdeyoung]

GOWN announces the losses of facilities in India.

[ironduke1955]

Painful I take it that particular Admiral is busted to swabbing decks. On the plus side you still have the US carriers.

[ernieschwitz]

Well the "good news" is that they won´t change people when conquered. So they will remain british. That means they will produce presumably at less efficiency, and inferior troops.

Still got to hurt to see 1000 PPs worth of factories go like that. I wonder who was the general in charge of India Command.

[cpdeyoung]

Yes, a shock to see those yellow seas where once the mighty flattops sailed.

Gown announces the stats for our combat. There is a big airstrike against Antwerp included.

[cpdeyoung]

GOWN analytics : We took one factory back in T44 and there was a single cavalry unit there. This gives us some hope that the enemy is not as strong as the Chinese commander would wish.

Like the French in 1940 (in WW2, real WW2) we did not think the enemy could come over those mountains. Amazing how this give one a new insight into the Ardennes strike. India Command did have garrisons in both cities to the north, and the Chinese fought their way in. This makes clear that we have a battle on our hands. This fight has it all, a desperate claw back, and a big, big prize for the winner. We still cannot figure how the enemy is drawing supply across that horrible terrain. They had enough strength to take Katmandu and Thimbu.

GOWN analytics has reevaluated the strength of the enemy commander upwards. Try as we might we cannot find a flaw in his play. Cosider the Sweden trade with Germany, the pestering subversion of South American countries, and now this well executed attack. It is impressive, to GOWN analytics anyway.

We do wonder with the Soviet analysts if the Chinese can hold against the forces arrayed against them. Much will be revealed in the next months, especially as the USA comes into her strength.

---- GOWN analytics ----

[Twotribes]

I gave China a HUGE land army. It was unorganized but even at 80 percent it should help him. I can not surrender as Germany as the game won't let me that is why it says I opened it twice, I tried and it just hung the game up. I had to control alt delete and end the non responsive game.

[cpdeyoung]

Please be assured that it is my goal to release you from your responsibilities in the West!

GOWN Commander

[cpdeyoung]

Congratulations on a wonderful victory.

You played so well!

[Jonathan Pollard]

ORIGINAL: cpdeyoung

China sent me a message to explain the decision to go to war. I decided to simply fight it out, and I will be posting about our conflict as we fight it out.

The reason I sent that message was because assuming Mukden held out against the USSR (which it did just barely), the only way I could lose would be if you invaded a Chinese or Korean city. I was hoping the message might distract you from conducting an invasion.

The airstrike that did not suffer any fighter interception (your carrier fighters were one hex away) was made prior to my declaration of war, maybe that's why there was no interception. Yes, you are allowed to do airstrikes against naval targets on the open sea without declaring war.