AI for MWiF - France

[Beryl]

NOPE. You can't stay at sea anyway at the end of a turn when transporting units, and the setup rule restrict it the a naval move out to sea (i.e only) with your naval units (i.e only).
This is not a serious pb as you can setup the french TRS with the INF (or TERR I suppose) you want to move and you will have plenty of time to do it in first S/O 39 turn, and without many riskq on 1st allied impulse.

[Centuur]

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

ORIGINAL: RAW7scenario.pdf

After you have finished setting-up, you can make naval moves out to sea with your naval units. Treat this as a naval action you conducted last turn, so the units must finish their move, then drop to a lower sea-box section as if they had stayed at sea last turn (see 13.4 Return to base). Neutral major powers can only make these moves with convoy (22.4.19 Convoys in Flames (CoiF option 76): and tanker) points.

After having set up your units can the French TRS (if they have the movement points and range) in 24.4.7 The Global war: Sep/Oct 1939 ~ Jul/Aug 1945: load an INF unit, move 2 sea zones, and enter a port. Or do they have to stay at sea?

Yes, you can do this during a naval movement phase. During setup before SO1939, France is neutral, so the TRS has to be setup in a French controlled part and cannot be moved to a sea area.

[Extraneous]

ORIGINAL: Beryl

NOPE. You can't stay at sea anyway at the end of a turn when transporting units, and the setup rule restrict it the a naval move out to sea (i.e only) with your naval units (i.e only).
This is not a serious pb as you can setup the french TRS with the INF (or TERR I suppose) you want to move and you will have plenty of time to do it in first S/O 39 turn, and without many riskq on 1st allied impulse.

ORIGINAL: RAW7scenario.pdf

After you have finished setting-up, you can make naval moves out to sea with your naval units. Treat this as a naval action you conducted last turn, so the units must finish their move, then drop to a lower sea-box section as if they had stayed at sea last turn (see 13.4 Return to base). Neutral major powers can only make these moves with convoy (22.4.19 Convoys in Flames (CoiF option 76): and tanker) points.

I see what you mean.

TRS with cargo cannot remain at sea but if the TRS was empty it could.

It would have made things easier if it were just treated as a pre-turn naval move.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

ORIGINAL: Beryl

NOPE. You can't stay at sea anyway at the end of a turn when transporting units, and the setup rule restrict it the a naval move out to sea (i.e only) with your naval units (i.e only).
This is not a serious pb as you can setup the french TRS with the INF (or TERR I suppose) you want to move and you will have plenty of time to do it in first S/O 39 turn, and without many riskq on 1st allied impulse.

ORIGINAL: RAW7scenario.pdf

After you have finished setting-up, you can make naval moves out to sea with your naval units. Treat this as a naval action you conducted last turn, so the units must finish their move, then drop to a lower sea-box section as if they had stayed at sea last turn (see 13.4 Return to base). Neutral major powers can only make these moves with convoy (22.4.19 Convoys in Flames (CoiF option 76): and tanker) points.

I see what you mean.

TRS with cargo cannot remain at sea but if the TRS was empty it could.

It would have made things easier if it were just treated as a pre-turn naval move.

One plan is to get as many units back to Metropolitan France as possible early in the first turn. This would mean stripping the units from Syria and North Africa, leaving those countries vulnerable to Italian attacks/conquests, but keeping Paris in French hands an extra turn (or two) may be considered a reasonable exchange.

To get 2 land units back to Metropolitan France, the TRS starts in Syria with a land unit and takes it back to Nice in the second impulse. Then an HQ reorganizes the TRS so it can make a run into the Western Med to load a land unit from a coastal hex and unload it into France during that phase (all in the 4th impulse). The first land unit arrives organized so it can move to hold the line against the Italians.

There's not a lot the Axis can do against this, especially if the TRS is accompanied by a fleet of French naval combat units when it moves in the 4th impulse.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

ORIGINAL: Beryl

NOPE. You can't stay at sea anyway at the end of a turn when transporting units, and the setup rule restrict it the a naval move out to sea (i.e only) with your naval units (i.e only).
This is not a serious pb as you can setup the french TRS with the INF (or TERR I suppose) you want to move and you will have plenty of time to do it in first S/O 39 turn, and without many riskq on 1st allied impulse.

ORIGINAL: RAW7scenario.pdf

After you have finished setting-up, you can make naval moves out to sea with your naval units. Treat this as a naval action you conducted last turn, so the units must finish their move, then drop to a lower sea-box section as if they had stayed at sea last turn (see 13.4 Return to base). Neutral major powers can only make these moves with convoy (22.4.19 Convoys in Flames (CoiF option 76): and tanker) points.

I see what you mean.

TRS with cargo cannot remain at sea but if the TRS was empty it could.

It would have made things easier if it were just treated as a pre-turn naval move.

One plan is to get as many units back to Metropolitan France as possible early in the first turn. This would mean stripping the units from Syria and North Africa, leaving those countries vulnerable to Italian attacks/conquests, but keeping Paris in French hands an extra turn (or two) may be considered a reasonable exchange.

To get 2 land units back to Metropolitan France, the TRS starts in Syria with a land unit and takes it back to Nice in the second impulse. Then an HQ reorganizes the TRS so it can make a run into the Western Med to load a land unit from a coastal hex and unload it into France during that phase (all in the 4th impulse). The first land unit arrives organized so it can move to hold the line against the Italians.

There's not a lot the Axis can do against this, especially if the TRS is accompanied by a fleet of French naval combat units when it moves in the 4th impulse.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

ORIGINAL: Beryl

NOPE. You can't stay at sea anyway at the end of a turn when transporting units, and the setup rule restrict it the a naval move out to sea (i.e only) with your naval units (i.e only).
This is not a serious pb as you can setup the french TRS with the INF (or TERR I suppose) you want to move and you will have plenty of time to do it in first S/O 39 turn, and without many riskq on 1st allied impulse.

ORIGINAL: RAW7scenario.pdf

After you have finished setting-up, you can make naval moves out to sea with your naval units. Treat this as a naval action you conducted last turn, so the units must finish their move, then drop to a lower sea-box section as if they had stayed at sea last turn (see 13.4 Return to base). Neutral major powers can only make these moves with convoy (22.4.19 Convoys in Flames (CoiF option 76): and tanker) points.

I see what you mean.

TRS with cargo cannot remain at sea but if the TRS was empty it could.

It would have made things easier if it were just treated as a pre-turn naval move.

One plan is to get as many units back to Metropolitan France as possible early in the first turn. This would mean stripping the units from Syria and North Africa, leaving those countries vulnerable to Italian attacks/conquests, but keeping Paris in French hands an extra turn (or two) may be considered a reasonable exchange.

To get 2 land units back to Metropolitan France, the TRS starts in Syria with a land unit and takes it back to Nice in the second impulse. Then an HQ reorganizes the TRS so it can make a run into the Western Med to load a land unit from a coastal hex and unload it into France during that phase (all in the 4th impulse). The first land unit arrives organized so it can move to hold the line against the Italians.

There's not a lot the Axis can do against this, especially if the TRS is accompanied by a fleet of French naval combat units when it moves in the 4th impulse.

[Extraneous]

First I'm going to think strategically: France cannot survive the German blitz unless they are very lucky. So I'm going to plan for France to fall.

Set up
1) Convoy line (3CP) Dakar, Senegal (French West Africa admin group) > 1 CP Cape Verde Basin > 1 CP Cape St. Vincent > 1 CP Western Mediterranean Sea > Marseilles, France
2) Convoy line (1CP) Oran, Algeria (Algeria admin group) > 1 CP Western Mediterranean Sea > Marseilles, France
3) Convoy reserve: 3 CP in French Equatorial Africa admin group (80% chance Free France retains 3 CP).
4) Convoy reserve: 3 CP in New Caledonia (All Pacific map minors & territories admin group) (90% chance Free France retains 3 CP).

This allows France 4BP per turn until Vichy is established.

5) Save Iraq oil in Damascus, Syria.

First Impulse
1) Load the French TRS with and transport any INF Corps in Syria to Malta (with CW permission).
2) Reorganize the French TRS if necessary.

Second Impulse
1) US Entry Action 22. CW and France both declare war on Italy (1 chit and 20% chance of another).
2) The CW CV's can port strike the Italian fleet. The French Fleet can support a French invasion of any port the Italians are in.

After Vichy, France is established
1) The CW DoW's Vichy. France. Syria is to be captured by the CW for the saved oil. Iraq oil now goes to the CW. The CW can liberate Syria and give it to Free France.

[paulderynck]

You don't need a CP in the Med for that first convoy line, the resource can land at Cadiz and go through Spain.

Personally I like to put almost all the French CPs in the Pacific and use them to ship either Aussie or New Caledonian resources. They'll likely stick around on the Allied side when France falls and if not, they'll be unsuppliable by Vichy. (You can set the CW CPs up to carry the French resources even though they are not yet allied. You can't be lending stuff back and forth yet but nothing stops the transport of French resources on CW CPs at turn-end.)

The nice thing about Free French ships of any type is they can be moved without taking CW or US Navals or Combineds. I especially like to have them get TRS and Amphs.

[Extraneous]

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

You don't need a CP in the Med for that first convoy line, the resource can land at Cadiz and go through Spain.

Personally I like to put almost all the French CPs in the Pacific and use them to ship either Aussie or New Caledonian resources. They'll likely stick around on the Allied side when France falls and if not, they'll be unsuppliable by Vichy. (You can set the CW CPs up to carry the French resources even though they are not yet allied. You can't be lending stuff back and forth yet but nothing stops the transport of French resources on CW CPs at turn-end.)

The nice thing about Free French ships of any type is they can be moved without taking CW or US Navals or Combineds. I especially like to have them get TRS and Amphs.

The CP in the Western Mediterranean Sea also supplies the French in Malta.

I agree getting the Free French back in the war helps the CW.

If the USA has chosen...

15. Resources to western Allies - The US can give up to 5 resources per turn each to the Commonwealth and France in future turns (unlimited while the USA is at war with Germany). US convoy points CAN'T be used to transport these resources while the US is a neutral major power.

27. Lend lease to western Allies - The US can give up to 5 build points a turn (see 13.6.4 Lend lease) to each of the Commonwealth and France in future turns (unlimited while the USA is at war with Germany). You can only choose this option if you have already chosen entry option 15. Resources to western Allies. US convoy points CAN'T be used to transport these build points while the US is a neutral major power.

How you transport resources is described later (see 13.6.1 Resources and 13.5.1 Oil (AfA option 48)).

With some Free French CP's the USA can lend lease some BP's to the Free French and start rebuilding the French Army. This would come in handy before the USA enters the war.

With the TRS you can move the Free French land units to reinforce the CW.


Did you spot the error I made in post #307 (Hint: Chart 28 UNIT COSTS & CHARACTERISTICS)?

[paulderynck]

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

The CP in the Western Mediterranean Sea also supplies the French in Malta.

I agree getting the Free French back in the war helps the CW.

If the USA has chosen...

The CP that's there to transport the resource from Algeria does that so, no the second one is completely redundant.

Putting a French unit in Malta is cetainly a very imaginative strategy

[Extraneous]

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

The CP that's there to transport the resource from Algeria does that so, no the second one is completely redundant.

Putting a French unit in Malta is certainly a very imaginative strategy

Point taken on the redundant CP (one more Free French CP [:D]).

The problem with putting the French in Malta is that the TRS can't reorganize until 13.5 Final reorganization step. So it wouldn't be available to invade Italian ports on the second impulse.

If the French retain the TRS and the INF in Syria you have the same abilities as if you sailed to Marseilles or Toulon without having to reorganize the TRS.

Note to Italian players: put a Land unit in the port that you put your fleet. As the French player I would gladly sacrifice a French INF for the Italian Fleet.

[Centuur]

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

The CP that's there to transport the resource from Algeria does that so, no the second one is completely redundant.

Putting a French unit in Malta is certainly a very imaginative strategy

Point taken on the redundant CP (one more Free French CP [:D]).

The problem with putting the French in Malta is that the TRS can't reorganize until 13.5 Final reorganization step. So it wouldn't be available to invade Italian ports on the second impulse.

If the French retain the TRS and the INF in Syria you have the same abilities as if you sailed to Marseilles or Toulon without having to reorganize the TRS.

Note to Italian players: put a Land unit in the port that you put your fleet. As the French player I would gladly sacrifice a French INF for the Italian Fleet.

Of course, you can't do this if you're playing with the AMPH rule. If playing with this rule, the French can only use the DIV to attack...

I usually put the French convoys all in the pacific. I want them to become Free French. The TRS I use to get two INF into France in the first turn. After that I'll sail it towards Gabon, together with the French cruiser fleet.

The Algerian resource can be transported by rail through Spain and Gibraltar, you don't need a convoy for this.

[Extraneous]

UPDATED VERSION FOR THE FREE FRENCH

Scrap the 1914 TRS it's worthless this gives your average TRS a minimum of move 3 range 3 (you still can't get a TRS out of the Mediterranean if it's loaded).

If the Italian player has an INF guarding their fleet:

There are 3 minor ports in the French Equatorial Africa administration group: Pt Norie (Middle Congo), Dualas (Cameroons), and Libreville (Gabon)

So you can only have 6 ships in port in the French Equatorial Africa administration group.

Set up
1) Convoy line (2 CP) Dakar, Senegal (French West Africa admin group) > 1 CP Cape Verde Basin > 1 CP Cape St. Vincent > > to Cádiz, Spain
2) Convoy line (1 CP) 1 CP Western Mediterranean Sea to supply French North Africa.
3) Convoy reserve: 4 CP (counts as 2 ships) in Pt Norie, Middle Congo French Equatorial Africa administration group (80% chance Free France retains 2 CP).
4) Convoy reserve: 3 CP (counts as 2 ships) in Noumea, New Caledonia (All Pacific map minors & territories admin group) (90% chance Free France retains 3 CP).

CA Algérie, CA Colbert, and CL Jean de Vienne (move 5 range 3) sails from Marseilles or Toulon to:
> Western Mediterranean Sea > Cape St. Vincent > Cape Verde Basin sea box 2 remain at sea and moves to sea box 1

First Impulse France chooses a Naval action.
CA Algérie, CA Colbert, and CL Jean de Vienne sails from Cape Verde Basin sea box 1
CA Algérie and CL Jean de Vienne > Gulf of Guinea > to the port of Dualas, Cameroons French Equatorial Africa administration group
CA Colbert > Gulf of Guinea > to the port of Libreville, Gabon French Equatorial Africa administration group

TRS with the INF (move 3 range 3) sails from Syria to > Eastern Mediterranean Sea > Western Mediterranean Sea > Marseilles or Toulon
Now you can reorganize the TRS with a headquarters unit in France (11.18 Reorganization ~ 11.18.2 HQ reorganization).

Second Impulse
TRS (move 3 range 3) sails from Marseilles or Toulon > Western Mediterranean Sea > Cape St. Vincent sea box 1 and stays at sea moves to sea box 0.

Second turn
TRS (move 3 range 3) sails from Cape St. Vincent sea box 0 to > Cape Verde Basin > Gulf of Guinea > to the port of Libreville, Gabon French Equatorial Africa administration group.

This should give me just enough CP's to establish a convoy line from French Equatorial Africa to the USA and a small Cruiser force to begin with once Vichy France is established. If the USA player is willing to Lend Lease 1 BP each turn to Free France in 3 turns you could start building a Land unit in French Equatorial Africa.

While in the Pacific nothing much can happen there until the USA enters the war.

[paulderynck]

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

UPDATED VERSION FOR THE FREE FRENCH

Scrap the 1914 TRS it's worthless this gives your average TRS a minimum of move 3 range 3 (you still can't get a TRS out of the Mediterranean if it's loaded).

Why not? It can be set up with the unit it will transport. From North Africa, even a 2-range TRS makes it to CSV. (Not sure why you'd transport a unit to anywhere but France, but...

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

If the Italian player has an INF guarding their fleet:

You won't know this at set-up time if the fleet is in a port city. When the Italians go to war they can put a reserve unit in the city.

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

There are 3 minor ports in the French Equatorial Africa administration group: Pt Norie (Middle Congo), Dualas (Cameroons), and Libreville (Gabon)

So you can only have 6 ships in port in the French Equatorial Africa administration group.

If playing SiF the ports can stack 4 naval units each.

I think the idea of invading onto the Italian fleet is quite a poor one, uncovered or not. First you have to DoW Italy which is bad for US entry (moreso in 1939 than in 1940 in fact, because of the average chit values). Second they can position a reserve unit to either make the invasion an automatic failure or at least put a ZOC on the port. Third, when invading from a 3-3 TRS (assuming you are not playing with the Amph rule) the 3-3 INF is halved.

[composer99]

pauldernyck:

A common Italian set up is to put the fleet in La Spezia, which is just a major port.

Admittedly, when I play Italy I usually have land units there to be shipped overseas, but they serve as a defence against surprise French attack.

Nevertheless, the opportunity to try to invade the Italian fleet in a surprise impulse should at least be considered by the AIO, even if it is ultimately (as I agree it will be) a very low-probability option.

[paulderynck]

I'd be overjoyed for you to consider it if playing France against my Italy.

...but, point taken, the AI should consider it. The problem is to set up to do it, putting a French unit in Malta is such a bad play considering the odds for a successful invasion, because if ultimately you don't do it, then you've disabled Malta as a port for the CW until you can waste more moves and oil getting it out of there...

[Extraneous]

SiF option 9: Up to 4 naval units can stack together in a minor port. Every 2 convoy points (or any spare point) is a naval unit (I missed SiF option 9).

For some reason I was counting 1 range entering AND leaving port.

You spend 1 point of a unit’s RANGE For each sea area and port it moves into.

You spend 1 point of a unit’s MOVEMENT ALLOWANCE:
For each sea area and port it moves into;
If it starts the movement out of supply;
If it starts the impulse in a port with naval units controlled by another major power; and
For each point of the (unmodified) search number of the section you put the unit into.

UPDATED VERSION 1.1 FOR THE FREE FRENCH

Scrap the 1914 TRS it's worthless this gives your average TRS a minimum of move 3 range 3 (you still can't get a TRS out of the Mediterranean if it's loaded).

If the Italian player has an INF guarding their fleet:

There are 3 minor ports in the French Equatorial Africa administration group: Pt Norie (Middle Congo), Dualas (Cameroons), and Libreville (Gabon)

So you can only have 12 ships in port in the French Equatorial Africa administration group.

Set up
1) Convoy line (2 CP) Dakar, Senegal (French West Africa admin group) > 1 CP Cape Verde Basin > 1 CP Cape St. Vincent > > to Cádiz, Spain
2) Convoy line (1 CP) 1 CP Western Mediterranean Sea to supply French North Africa.
3) Convoy reserve: 4 CP (counts as 2 ships) in Pt Norie, Middle Congo French Equatorial Africa administration group (80% chance Free France retains 2 CP).
4) Convoy reserve: 3 CP (counts as 2 ships) in Noumea, New Caledonia (All Pacific map minors & territories admin group) (90% chance Free France retains 3 CP).

CA Algérie, CA Dupleix, CA Foch, CA Colbert, CL Gloire, CL Marseillaise, and CL Jean de Vienne (move 5 range 3) sails from Marseilles or Toulon to:
> Western Mediterranean Sea > Cape St. Vincent > Cape Verde Basin sea box 2 remain at sea and moves to sea box 1

First Impulse France chooses a Naval action.
CA Algérie, CA Dupleix, CA Foch, CA Colbert, CL Gloire, CL Marseillaise, and CL Jean de Vienne (move 5 range 3) sails from Cape Verde Basin sea box 1

CA Algérie CA Dupleix, CA Foch, and CL Jean de Vienne > Gulf of Guinea > to the port of Dualas, Cameroons French Equatorial Africa administration group
CA Colbert, CL Gloire, and CL Marseillaise > Gulf of Guinea > to the port of Libreville, Gabon French Equatorial Africa administration group

TRS with the INF (move 3 range 3) sails from Syria to > Eastern Mediterranean Sea > Western Mediterranean Sea > Marseilles or Toulon
Now you can reorganize the TRS with HQ-I Billotte in France (11.18 Reorganization ~ 11.18.2 HQ reorganization).

Second Impulse
TRS and HQ-i Georges (move 3 range 3) sails from Marseilles or Toulon > Western Mediterranean Sea > Cape St. Vincent > Cape Verde Basin > the major port Dakar, Senegal.
Reorganize the TRS with HQ-i Georges.

Third Impulse
TRS (move 3 range 3) sails from the major port Dakar, Senegal to > Cape Verde Basin > Cape St. Vincent > Western Mediterranean Sea > to the major port Marseilles or Toulon.

Second turn
First Impulse
TRS and an INF (move 3 range 3) sails from the major port Marseilles or Toulon > Western Mediterranean Sea > Cape St. Vincent > Cape Verde Basin > the major port Dakar, Senegal.
Reorganize the TRS with HQ-I Georges.

Second Impulse
TRS and INF (move 3 range 3) sails from the major port Dakar, Senegal to:
> Cape Verde Basin > Gulf of Guinea > to the minor port of Libreville, Gabon French Equatorial Africa administration group.

Third turn
First Impulse
TRS (move 3 range 3) sails from the minor port of Libreville, Gabon to:
> Gulf of Guinea > Cape Verde Basin > to the major port Dakar, Senegal
Reorganize the TRS with HQ-I Georges.

Second Impulse
TRS and HQ-I Georges (move 3 range 3) sails from the major port Dakar, Senegal to:
> Cape Verde Basin > Gulf of Guinea > to the minor port of Libreville, Gabon French Equatorial Africa administration group.

This should give me just enough CP's to establish a convoy line from French Equatorial Africa to the USA, a modest Cruiser force and the start of a small Free French army. Once Vichy France is established If the USA player is willing to Lend Lease 1 BP each turn to Free France in you could start building units in French Equatorial Africa.

If you have the bad luck to not get French Equatorial Africa to go Free French the Allies will probably take Paris before Vichy can straighten this out.

While in the Pacific nothing much can happen there until the USA enters the war.

[brian brian]

bring home the Syrian INF in Syria. Leave the one in Algiers there. Put the Royal Engineers and a Gun on Malta. Don't be silly. Reinforce Malta above that level shortly, too. A TERR works nice for this as long as it is not the only unit there.

[Centuur]

For France there is another possibility for setting up the French Cruisers. You can put the Algerie and four three range ones in Madagascar, and sail those to the Pacific (towards Australia and in the return to base step, you put them in New Caledonia/Papeete). The other cruisers can be set up in French Equatorial Africa at start (but save room for the TRS). Saves you the oil moving those there. Together with the CP in the pacific this surely means that all French ships there have the highest possible Free French survival possiblity.
The CP in the Western Med for providing supply to French North Africa is only necessary when playing with limited overseas supply. If not, I tend to sail the French BB fleet out there when war comes with the Italians...

[paulderynck]

Good idea, although you can decide either that France will fall for sure (which this set-up infers) or that you will fight for it tooth and nail and if possible, exchange French ships for Italian ones.

The other problem is when you anticipate Vichy will be declared, ideally you want the Pacific CPs RTB'd before the Axis does it for you and if you want to keep them, they go to New Caledonia (otherwise the Axis will stick them all over the "other" places that are more likely to go Vichy of which Papeete is one).