anyone think its a better idea to most of my troops out of Karachi to Malir in order to avoid the naval bombardments??...and have my last stand at Malir. I know i'll probably lose all of India..but i just want to prolong the inevitable. Any thoughts??
PS - both are at level nine forts
Karachi. Karachi. Karachi.
The real crime is no attempt by anything to lift the bombardment. Why the h3ll send subs there with mines and not torpedoes? (I know you're using the ill-advised Allied Sub Doctrine on.) Anything will do.
The bombardment must not be allowed to go on unmolested. If you have resigned India to fall then resign the game.
The fall of India is not inevitable if you defend it and force him to pay attention elsewhere.
This Gen. Gamelein (Re:France '39-'40 let's wait 'em out until we have material superiority even though that won't be until '41 plan) defense plan is a strategy for failure.
Cripes! Do something elsewhere to get his attentrion!
"There comes a time in every man's life, and I've had plenty of 'em."
Karachi is now under seige. Kenny will be starting his offensive in the next few weeks so this may become a side show.
Kenny now has a tough decision to make. We have agreed that if Karachi falls I will give it back. The tough decision for him is whether or not to leave replacements on (We have agreed that the Chinese SEAC units that repawned there will have theirs turned off). Keeping them on will give Karachi a chance of holding out and inflicting higher losses. The downside of this is that I am scoring 300-400 VP a month through the bombardments. It may be worth it for me to just laying seige and use the bombardmets to rack up points.
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 10/15/42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naval bombardment of Karachi, at 21,3
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Koepang , at 28,77
Less is more. 4 Zeros (left over fragments) downed more planes for less cost since there were none on the ground to be destroyed
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 4
Allied aircraft
Beaufighter VIF x 12
Martin 139 x 12
P-38G Lightning x 19
B-25C Mitchell x 119
Allied ground losses:
740 casualties reported
Guns lost 5
Vehicles lost 6
Airbase hits 1
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 60
Port hits 8
Port fuel hits 2
Port supply hits 4
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naval bombardment of Karachi, at 21,3
Japanese Ships
DD Akebono
DD Shiokaze
DD Akikaze
DD Hakaze
DD Okikaze
DD Hatakaze
DD Nagatsuki
DD Satsuki
DD Sagiri
DD Ariake
DD Asagumo
DD Samidare
CA Furutaka
CA Kinugasa
CA Aoba
CA Kumano
CA Suzuya
CA Mikuma
CA Mogami
CA Nachi
CA Chokai
CA Maya
CA Takao
CA Chikuma
CA Tone
Allied ground losses:
1674 casualties reported
Guns lost 11
Vehicles lost 9
Airbase hits 3
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 78
Port hits 15
Port fuel hits 4
Port supply hits 6
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naval bombardment of Karachi, at 21,3
Japanese Ships
DD Kari
DD Hato
DD Tomozuru
DD Hatsukari
DD Karukaya
DD Numakaze
DD Matsukaze
DD Asakaze
DD Kisaragi
DD Ayanami
DD Shinonome
DD Murasame
DD Kuroshio
DD Akigumo
CL Yubari
CL Tatsuta
CL Oi
CL Kiso
CL Kuma
CL Kinu
CL Yura
CL Natori
CL Nagara
CL Jintsu
CA Haguro
Allied ground losses:
354 casualties reported
Guns lost 1
Airbase hits 5
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 66
Port hits 9
Port supply hits 5
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Chungking
Japanese Bombardment attack
Attacking force 12642 troops, 413 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 7442
Defending force 335276 troops, 6 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 11347
Allied ground losses:
612 casualties reported
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has limits"- Darwin Awards 2003
The real crime is no attempt by anything to lift the bombardment. Why the h3ll send subs there with mines and not torpedoes? (I know you're using the ill-advised Allied Sub Doctrine on.) Anything will do.
The bombardment must not be allowed to go on unmolested. If you have resigned India to fall then resign the game.
The fall of India is not inevitable if you defend it and force him to pay attention elsewhere.
subs are currently unavailable at the moment, since most of them are in port refitting with much needed radar.
Prediction: The NFL football season will be over before Karachi falls.
hmmm...by then we should be in Late 1943'. I would be happy with that, tying down multiple japanese divisions, but somehow i doubt that. If Tom makes a full, concentrated effort to take down Karachi, i would say the city will fall around Dec 42'.
NY GIANTS will repeat as division champs.
not sure about that...think the Eagles will take the Division this year. My Jets look like they will be in the basement of their division. Lucky for me, my Mets are just tearing up oppenants, so i'll have baseball to distract me well into October.
I am scoring 300-400 VP a month through the bombardments. It may be worth it for me to just laying seige and use the bombardmets to rack up points.
may need those points to off balance the 500+ 4E bomber raids. But then again not taking Karachi leaves a major thorn in your side. Tough call for both of us
Japanese aircraft A6M2 Zero x 4
Allied aircraft
Beaufighter VIF x 12
Martin 139 x 12 P-38G Lightning x 19
B-25C Mitchell x 119
I assumed the losses were due to A2A due to flak's poor performance in the past. Nice to see they have learned how to shoot straight.
I will be happy if I can take Karachi by the end of the year. I am estimating that the AV is around 4K due to the Chineese troops. I will have to whittle this down to 2K to have a realistic chance of taking the city.
In the mean time I will need the points to make up for the 4E bomber raids. The final of the destruction of PM was about 550 scored by you vs 125 for me. Not a good return points wise but as far as replacements go I should replace my losses faster. The losses were aggravated by the fact that I forgot to turn off the replacements as they were being bombed. If I had Tonies instead of Oscars the base still would have been shut down but your losses would have been much higher with several of the damaged now being kills.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has limits"- Darwin Awards 2003
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naval bombardment of Karachi, at 21,3
Japanese Ships
DD Shiokaze
DD Akikaze
DD Hakaze
DD Okikaze
DD Hatakaze
DD Nagatsuki
DD Satsuki
DD Akebono
DD Sagiri
DD Ariake
DD Samidare
DD Asagumo
CA Furutaka
CA Kinugasa
CA Aoba
CA Kumano
CA Suzuya
CA Mikuma
CA Mogami
CA Nachi
CA Chokai
CA Maya
CA Takao
CA Chikuma
CA Tone
Allied ground losses:
704 casualties reported
Guns lost 1
Vehicles lost 2
Airbase hits 4
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 38
Port hits 5
Port supply hits 2
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naval bombardment of Karachi, at 21,3
First probing attack (via bombardment) at Karachi. Number of troops and AV is about 1/2 of what my recons had reported. Maybe I will be able to take Karachi.
Progress is also being made at Chungking. I don't know why it is working but if it ain't broke I am not going to try to fix it[;)]
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 10/19/42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 137 encounters mine field at Shortlands (63,93)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 1071 encounters mine field at Newcastle (39,125)
Allied Ships
MSW Strahan
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naval bombardment of Karachi, at 21,3
Japanese Ships
DD Shiokaze
DD Akikaze
DD Hakaze
DD Okikaze
DD Hatakaze
DD Nagatsuki
DD Satsuki
DD Akebono
DD Sagiri
DD Ariake
DD Samidare
DD Asagumo
CA Furutaka
CA Kinugasa
CA Aoba
CA Kumano
CA Suzuya
CA Mikuma
CA Mogami
CA Nachi
CA Chokai
CA Maya
CA Takao
CA Chikuma
CA Tone
Allied ground losses:
497 casualties reported
Guns lost 5
Vehicles lost 2
Airbase hits 2
Runway hits 52
Port hits 2
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Chungking , at 43,32
Japanese aircraft
Ki-21 Sally x 164
Ki-49 Helen x 75
The real crime is no attempt by anything to lift the bombardment. Why the h3ll send subs there with mines and not torpedoes? (I know you're using the ill-advised Allied Sub Doctrine on.) Anything will do.
The bombardment must not be allowed to go on unmolested. If you have resigned India to fall then resign the game.
The fall of India is not inevitable if you defend it and force him to pay attention elsewhere.
subs are currently unavailable at the moment, since most of them are in port refitting with much needed radar.
Note for future strategic planning on your part. When faced with a strategic situation such as the Allies in Pacific '41-'42 you have to be a few steps ahead of your opponent.
Proper prior planning would have prevented this inability to contest Karachi as the obvious Japanese continental grand strategy made itself apparent.
When playing the Allies in the Pacific in '41 or in Europe in '39 you have to try and stay ahead of him. Lay back but study, watch and plan ahead for countermoves. If you do nothing but react you're dancing to his tune.
And you're dead.
"There comes a time in every man's life, and I've had plenty of 'em."
Trog: Kenny has read my mind several times and made me pay for it. From what I have seen in other AARs he may earn the title of "Master of Mines" since I always seem to run into a mine field. So far he has sunk around 30 ships with mines due to his uncanny ability to predict where I am going to move. Even with as well as I have done, I may not be able to hold a 4:1 VP ration until 01-01-43 and ins't that the true sign of a good Allied player?
A Bombardment TF full of BBs converted to Surface Combat for the 2nd day in a row. the Commander is greyed out so I think I may have been bitten by a small bug. Disbanded the TF and sent it out for tommorrow. The DDs and LCUs are keeping the AV at Karachi treading water. The BBs are what pushes it under.
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 10/21/42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 1071 encounters mine field at Newcastle (39,125)
Proper prior planning would have prevented this inability to contest Karachi as the obvious Japanese continental grand strategy made itself apparent.
how would i know on Dec 7th 1941 that his goal would be Karachi?? Why couldn't it be Australia?...or South Pacific??..or Hawaii??
regardless, as i've stated before...no player can successfully defend India in March of 1942 against 10+ infantry divisions with the entire KB supporting the invasion. Despite these overwhelming odds, i did send 90% of all my naval assets to the Indian theatre to attack the invasion force. But as luck would have it..they were 2 weeks too late to factor in any decisive battle.
Losing India isn't the end of the world for the Allies anyways. In real life how much did the Indian/Burma theatre contribute to the demise of the Japanese??. In fact, in this game if the Allies hold the India, most players can launch a counter-offensive in late 42, early 43 in the burma theatre which is very unhistorical.
So despite getting my ass handed to in the opening months, i now have a stable front extending from Australia --> South Pacific --> Hawaii. In fact its the historical mid 1942 boundry, except for Port Moresby (which is impossible to hold in this game). I'll wager that by the end of 1943 i'll be close to, if not further, than the historical allied offensive
Trog is also not aware that I was going to try to invade Australia in Mid 42 but India was going so slowly that I had to put it off.
Same thing with the DEI taking too long to fall. If I had taken it faster I would have made a move on Neouma. Now that would be suicical.
I agree that stopping an invasion of India is nearly impossible. Had Kenny just holed up at Karachi there would be no way I could take it but then again I would have tried. The freed up units would have gone towards other operations.
Every action has consequences. You must choose which ones you are willing to accept. If you fight to the death in India you may hold it but you may lose OZ or Neouma, or the Easter Pacific Islands as a result.
I just hope to still hold a historical line by the end of 43.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has limits"- Darwin Awards 2003
I agree that stopping an invasion of India is nearly impossible. Had Kenny just holed up at Karachi there would be no way I could take it but then again I would have tried. The freed up units would have gone towards other operations.
also wouldn't have been any fun if it i just retreated all my units to Karachi, just as it wouldn't have been fun for you if you just advanced on Karachi, while ignoring the rest of India.
Besides...by keeping the majority of my troops in the Calcutta area, it was good learning expereince as to where to concentrate on fort building and troops, next time i start another PBEM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Koepang , at 28,77
Allied aircraft
Martin 139 x 12
B-25C Mitchell x 110
Allied aircraft losses
B-25C Mitchell: 2 damaged
Japanese ground losses:
34 casualties reported
Guns lost 2
Port fuel hits 1
Port supply hits 3
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Karachi
Japanese Bombardment attack
Attacking force 107148 troops, 1286 guns, 227 vehicles, Assault Value = 2855
Defending force 67846 troops, 549 guns, 1 vehicles, Assault Value = 1622
Allied ground losses:
36 casualties reported
Guns lost 1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Chungking
Japanese Bombardment attack
Attacking force 13336 troops, 440 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 7485
Defending force 330057 troops, 5 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 11231
Allied ground losses:
845 casualties reported
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 10/24/42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Chungking , at 43,32
Japanese aircraft
Ki-21 Sally x 154
Ki-49 Helen x 74
No Japanese losses
Allied ground losses:
228 casualties reported
Airbase hits 11
Airbase supply hits 3
Runway hits 131
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Koepang , at 28,77
Allied aircraft
Martin 139 x 11
B-25C Mitchell x 99
BBs stayed on mission and lowered the AV at Karachi by 30 points.
Lots of subs spotted in my home waters. I think Kenny has fixed his torpedos and is ready to start his sub campaign.
AA gunners at PM continue to take a toll on the 4E air pirates.
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 10/25/42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naval bombardment of Karachi, at 21,3
Japanese Ships
DD Asagumo
CA Furutaka
CA Kinugasa
CA Aoba
CA Kumano
CA Suzuya
CA Mikuma
CA Mogami
CA Nachi
CA Chokai
CA Maya
CA Takao
CA Chikuma
CA Tone
BB Hyuga
BB Ise
BB Yamashiro
BB Fuso
BB Yamato
BB Mutsu
BB Nagato
BB Kirishima
BB Hiei
BB Haruna
BB Kongo
Allied ground losses:
3343 casualties reported (Most were killed when huge piles of supplies fell on them)
Guns lost 34
Vehicles lost 3
Airbase hits 8
Airbase supply hits 6
Runway hits 94
Port hits 14
Port fuel hits 1
Port supply hits 7
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naval bombardment of Karachi, at 21,3
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Chungking , at 43,32
Japanese aircraft
Ki-21 Sally x 139
Ki-49 Helen x 79
No Japanese losses
Allied ground losses:
448 casualties reported
Airbase hits 19
Airbase supply hits 5
Runway hits 229
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Port Moresby , at 53,91
Allied aircraft
Wellington III x 43
B-17E Fortress x 103
LB-30 Liberator x 85
B-24D Liberator x 173
Japanese ground losses:
550 casualties reported
Guns lost 8
Port hits 55
Port fuel hits 30
Port supply hits 26
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Karachi
Japanese Bombardment attack
Attacking force 107244 troops, 1285 guns, 230 vehicles, Assault Value = 2857
Defending force 64211 troops, 516 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1591
Allied ground losses:
32 casualties reported
Guns lost 1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Chungking
Japanese Bombardment attack
Attacking force 13312 troops, 438 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 7495
Defending force 327636 troops, 3 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 11186
Allied ground losses:
562 casualties reported
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 10/26/42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naval bombardment of Karachi, at 21,3
Japanese Ships
DD Kari
DD Hato
DD Tomozuru
DD Hatsukari
DD Karukaya
DD Numakaze
DD Matsukaze
DD Asakaze
DD Kisaragi
DD Ayanami
DD Shinonome
DD Murasame
DD Kuroshio
DD Akigumo
CL Yubari
CL Tatsuta
CL Oi
CL Kiso
CL Kuma
CL Kinu
CL Yura
CL Natori
CL Nagara
CL Jintsu
CA Haguro
Allied ground losses:
536 casualties reported
Guns lost 6
Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 65
Port hits 5
Port fuel hits 3
Port supply hits 1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Chungking , at 43,32
Japanese aircraft
Ki-21 Sally x 153
Ki-49 Helen x 77
No Japanese losses
Allied ground losses:
320 casualties reported
Airbase hits 14
Airbase supply hits 3
Runway hits 245
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Port Moresby , at 53,91
Allied aircraft
Wellington III x 59
B-17E Fortress x 80
LB-30 Liberator x 92
B-24D Liberator x 193
Trog: Kenny has read my mind several times and made me pay for it. From what I have seen in other AARs he may earn the title of "Master of Mines" since I always seem to run into a mine field. So far he has sunk around 30 ships with mines due to his uncanny ability to predict where I am going to move. Even with as well as I have done, I may not be able to hold a 4:1 VP ration until 01-01-43 and ins't that the true sign of a good Allied player?
A Bombardment TF full of BBs converted to Surface Combat for the 2nd day in a row. the Commander is greyed out so I think I may have been bitten by a small bug. Disbanded the TF and sent it out for tommorrow. The DDs and LCUs are keeping the AV at Karachi treading water. The BBs are what pushes it under.
Whatever gets you through the night, pal.
"There comes a time in every man's life, and I've had plenty of 'em."
...In real life how much did the Indian/Burma theatre contribute to the demise of the Japanese??. In fact, in this game if the Allies hold the India, most players can launch a counter-offensive in late 42, early 43 in the burma theatre which is very unhistorical.
So despite getting my ass handed to in the opening months, i now have a stable front extending from Australia --> South Pacific --> Hawaii. In fact its the historical mid 1942 boundry, except for Port Moresby (which is impossible to hold in this game). I'll wager that by the end of 1943 i'll be close to, if not further, than the historical allied offensive
In "real life" the CBI (China-Burma-India) Theater contributed a lot to the demise of the Japanese. So, the only way (according to your reasoning) to maintain a "historical" game is to let the Japanese player "run the board" in India?
I'll sign up for a game as the Allies. I doubt (given your experience level) that Port Moresby is impossible to defend. I would like to hear from some others who have succesfully defended Port Moresby in the Campaign game.
I'll wager that by the end of '43, given your timid nature, you won't even be close to what the Allies accomplished at that time. Your opponent owns you.
Don't bother with a response. I'm abandoning observing this AAR.
Good Luck!
"There comes a time in every man's life, and I've had plenty of 'em."
I'll sign up for a game as the Allies. I doubt (given your experience level) that Port Moresby is impossible to defend. I would like to hear from some others who have succesfully defended Port Moresby in the Campaign game.
Unlike a lot of people on this board, i haven't been playing wargames for decades. I'm only 25 years old, and up until recently (ie last year), i've only played against inept AI's in wargames. So yeah, my experience against real oppenants is lacking. Would you really expect me...someone with a few years of wargaming against an AI, who never even played UV, to beat up on RUPD, someone who's been playing wargames for over a decade, and even played UV?? Clearly, i knew i would get beat up...but that was the point. I wouldn't learn as much as quickly playing someone at my skill level.
Regardless, i would love to see you defend Port Moresby in an AAR, against a competant oppenant, in a stock game. Its pretty common knowledge around here that if a japanese player wants PM...he can have it. I would imagine that the AARs you've seen with PM still in allied hands, that the Japanese player didn't want it. In fact..i've even seen the Japanese take PM as late as August 1942 with 2 Aussie Division stationed there.
I'll wager that by the end of '43, given your timid nature, you won't even be close to what the Allies accomplished at that time. Your opponent owns you.
i can see why you would think i'm timid, considering in an email your advice for my besiege troops at Chungking was to launch a shock attack against 300,000 japanese troops. So against those standards...yeah i guess i am timid.
IMO, i would say i'm in between being an aggressive player, and a timid player. I didn't do the Sir Robin defense, as i quickly reinforced Java with a Inf Div and Timor with 2 Brigades. I contested the landing at Rabual with naval forces. The AVG fought until i had only 10 P40B's left. And I fought the KB in April of 1942, without LBA. The last point is especially telling, as most people on this forum will tell you not to go up against the KB until after the Zero bonus is gone, or until after you get the Wasp, and certainly not outside LBA cover. Yet i still managed to sink 2 Japanese CV's while losing only 3 of mine. Tactically a lose...but strategically a victory.
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