Hairy Asian Experiences - GreyJoy (J) vs. Q-Ball (A)

[GreyJoy]

Ground combat at Sarmi (91,114)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 15082 troops, 125 guns, 37 vehicles, Assault Value = 475

Defending force 12801 troops, 203 guns, 179 vehicles, Assault Value = 435

Japanese ground losses:
9 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Allied ground losses:
24 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Vehicles lost 1 (1 destroyed, 0 disabled)

Assaulting units:
20th Ind Engineer Regiment
39th Ind Engr Rgt /1
15th Division
44th Nav Gd /1
17th Army
67th Field AA Battalion
65th Construction Battalion
65th JNAF AF Unit

Defending units:
33rd Infantry Division
3rd USMC Tank Battalion
2/593rd Boat&Shore Engineer Battalion
XI US Corps /11

[GreyJoy]

With a SL of 35K i have currently 22K men at Sarmi...while he has more or less 16,000... so he has room for not less than another full division...and another full division will easily crush my defences... what to do so? I could send there the 17th Division from Biak...but that would mean that once Sarmi falls, i'd have wasted 4 full divisions in eastern NG (the 1st Guards Div and 55th Div that lost Vanimo and Hollandia - where, however, their resistance isn't over - and the 17th and 15th at Sarmi)... and that's a LOT of destroyed units!

I've already lost the 21st div at Bouganville, the 56th at Kaimana, the 8th between Kain-Enlanden and Kaimana (with the C regiment stuck at Saumlaki).... not to talk about the 33rd Div completely destroyed at Akyab.... can i efford the loss of one more division for a place called Sarmi?

[Crackaces]

With a SL of 35K i have currently 22K men at Sarmi...while he has more or less 16,000... so he has room for not less than another full division...and another full division will easily crush my defences...

I have found as an AFB, that temporarily overstacking only incurs a supply penalty and some disabled squads .. but the short term overwhelming AV/Firepower advantage is worth the few penalties incurred in the short term On the other hand .. the defense cannot sit there overstacked waiting for a possible attack for very long ... this gives the offense a tremendous initial advantage

I would also propose that oversstacking is absolutely required to take a similarly stacked defense in advantaged terrain. As an example, urban provides a X3 bonus that with forts can be 2.25 times [more if the defense is willing to pay additional supply costs to build 7-9 fort lvls] equal stacking is not going to overwhelm a supplied defensive position ...

Just a couple of thoughts ..

[GreyJoy]

I do not agree, respectfully.
I've found out that at the same level of overstacking the allied 1944 OOBs easily overcome an equale numbrr of japs squads. At Kaimana i had a reinforced division ( a div plus a regiment) pushed put by 2 depleted allied divisions.
At hollandia i lost the base with 4 forts and jungle against a reinforced marin division... And so on. It's firepower that matters and in 1944 a jap squad worths 1/4 of an allied squad... Not to talk about tanks...

[Richard III]

I wonder if when it looks like you are about to lose the unit it`s worth splitting it and have the possibility of buy back at Regt. size costs ?

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

With a SL of 35K i have currently 22K men at Sarmi...while he has more or less 16,000... so he has room for not less than another full division...and another full division will easily crush my defences... what to do so? I could send there the 17th Division from Biak...but that would mean that once Sarmi falls, i'd have wasted 4 full divisions in eastern NG (the 1st Guards Div and 55th Div that lost Vanimo and Hollandia - where, however, their resistance isn't over - and the 17th and 15th at Sarmi)... and that's a LOT of destroyed units!

I've already lost the 21st div at Bouganville, the 56th at Kaimana, the 8th between Kain-Enlanden and Kaimana (with the C regiment stuck at Saumlaki).... not to talk about the 33rd Div completely destroyed at Akyab.... can i efford the loss of one more division for a place called Sarmi?

[Crackaces]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

I do not agree, respectfully.
I've found out that at the same level of overstacking the allied 1944 OOBs easily overcome an equale numbrr of japs squads. At Kaimana i had a reinforced division ( a div plus a regiment) pushed put by 2 depleted allied divisions.
At hollandia i lost the base with 4 forts and jungle against a reinforced marin division... And so on. It's firepower that matters and in 1944 a jap squad worths 1/4 of an allied squad... Not to talk about tanks...

I did state similarly stacked defense [8D]..not so much squads but equal units in AV, but you bring out a great point of firepower density as to AV, and the USMC is the most dense firepower to AV units the Allies have to offer...

Clearly early in the game similar number of squads of IJA roll over their equivalent in Chinese as an example ..

Great Points Greyjoy and certainly clarify the problem at hand ...

[GreyJoy]

Still unsure what to do with Sarmi... I think I may try to send in some reinforcements. I have at hand a tank regiment, an heavy artillery battalion and a regiment of the 17th Div. Cannot strip anything more from my defences around Biak...I need 4/5 days to organize the whole operation.

Feb 4, 1944

In the meanwhile, the KB lingers near Kendari. A CVE TF is spotted again near Exmouth...pretty sure this is another bait and i'm not moving down all my reserves. Don't wanna be caught with my pants down when he'll come for Sumatra or the Adamans (another juicy target for him).
The Wake feint has now completely moved back towards PH. I'm glad I didn't send in the combined fleet up there... would have been a terrible waste of fuel and I would have left the DEI wide open to another thrust.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Richard III

I wonder if when it looks like you are about to lose the unit it`s worth splitting it and have the possibility of buy back at Regt. size costs ?

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

With a SL of 35K i have currently 22K men at Sarmi...while he has more or less 16,000... so he has room for not less than another full division...and another full division will easily crush my defences... what to do so? I could send there the 17th Division from Biak...but that would mean that once Sarmi falls, i'd have wasted 4 full divisions in eastern NG (the 1st Guards Div and 55th Div that lost Vanimo and Hollandia - where, however, their resistance isn't over - and the 17th and 15th at Sarmi)... and that's a LOT of destroyed units!

I've already lost the 21st div at Bouganville, the 56th at Kaimana, the 8th between Kain-Enlanden and Kaimana (with the C regiment stuck at Saumlaki).... not to talk about the 33rd Div completely destroyed at Akyab.... can i efford the loss of one more division for a place called Sarmi?

Most of the time you won't have the chance to buy these out for some time. They will retreat and at best if you hold another base close by you can fly out the remains. At worst you have a unit starving for months and months. I have one regiment still sitting near Merauke after months of being out of supply, slowly withering while the soldiers eek out an existence eating mangoes and fighting malaria and dengue.

Even buying back smaller units can be expensive though, as well. It likely would not reduce the costs. The initial cost to buy the units back is cheap, and then you have to pay the price to change the HQ from General Defense. That is the big cost. Even shattered brigades have been up to 350 PPs right after being brought back! Not cheap.

[JocMeister]

What does your instinct say about Sarmi? Always trust your gut! [:)]

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

What does your instinct say about Sarmi? Always trust your gut! [:)]

Hard to say, really.

I do think that every chance of slowing down the allies and make them lose a couple of months is a godsend.
But the question is: does another lost division (cause we know their destiny would be to be overrun sooner or later) worth a couple of months (at best)?

Ok, for the moment i'll be patient. I'll move to Biak the needed amphib ships and the supporting ones....but i'll clearly need the KB to do that...and i'll expose my troops to the dreaded allied PT/DDs from Hollandia...

we'll see. i'll wait to push the button till the very last moment.

In the meanwhile I have to keep him honest at Misol and in the rest of the map...not an easy task.

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: Richard III

I wonder if when it looks like you are about to lose the unit it`s worth splitting it and have the possibility of buy back at Regt. size costs ?

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

With a SL of 35K i have currently 22K men at Sarmi...while he has more or less 16,000... so he has room for not less than another full division...and another full division will easily crush my defences... what to do so? I could send there the 17th Division from Biak...but that would mean that once Sarmi falls, i'd have wasted 4 full divisions in eastern NG (the 1st Guards Div and 55th Div that lost Vanimo and Hollandia - where, however, their resistance isn't over - and the 17th and 15th at Sarmi)... and that's a LOT of destroyed units!

I've already lost the 21st div at Bouganville, the 56th at Kaimana, the 8th between Kain-Enlanden and Kaimana (with the C regiment stuck at Saumlaki).... not to talk about the 33rd Div completely destroyed at Akyab.... can i efford the loss of one more division for a place called Sarmi?

Most of the time you won't have the chance to buy these out for some time. They will retreat and at best if you hold another base close by you can fly out the remains. At worst you have a unit starving for months and months. I have one regiment still sitting near Merauke after months of being out of supply, slowly withering while the soldiers eek out an existence eating mangoes and fighting malaria and dengue.

Even buying back smaller units can be expensive though, as well. It likely would not reduce the costs. The initial cost to buy the units back is cheap, and then you have to pay the price to change the HQ from General Defense. That is the big cost. Even shattered brigades have been up to 350 PPs right after being brought back! Not cheap.

True! I've just made a HUGE mistake, buying back the 33rd ID to change it to an unrestricted HQ it costed me... 650 PPs!!!!!!...and she arrived with 3(three!!!) squads... 650 PPs?!?!?!?!
A huge mistake by my side...indeed. I should have left it where it was... with 650 PPs I could buy half a full Chinese division[:@]

[Crackaces]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: Richard III

I wonder if when it looks like you are about to lose the unit it`s worth splitting it and have the possibility of buy back at Regt. size costs ?

Most of the time you won't have the chance to buy these out for some time. They will retreat and at best if you hold another base close by you can fly out the remains. At worst you have a unit starving for months and months. I have one regiment still sitting near Merauke after months of being out of supply, slowly withering while the soldiers eek out an existence eating mangoes and fighting malaria and dengue.

Even buying back smaller units can be expensive though, as well. It likely would not reduce the costs. The initial cost to buy the units back is cheap, and then you have to pay the price to change the HQ from General Defense. That is the big cost. Even shattered brigades have been up to 350 PPs right after being brought back! Not cheap.

True! I've just made a HUGE mistake, buying back the 33rd ID to change it to an unrestricted HQ it costed me... 650 PPs!!!!!!...and she arrived with 3(three!!!) squads... 650 PPs?!?!?!?!
A huge mistake by my side...indeed. I should have left it where it was... with 650 PPs I could buy half a full Chinese division[:@]

How fast do IJ units take replacements? I do believe NY59Giants suggestion made to me a long time ago that replacements are taken per unit .. so dividing the division up into 3 units allows for faster replacements ..

[koniu]

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

ORIGINAL: obvert



Most of the time you won't have the chance to buy these out for some time. They will retreat and at best if you hold another base close by you can fly out the remains. At worst you have a unit starving for months and months. I have one regiment still sitting near Merauke after months of being out of supply, slowly withering while the soldiers eek out an existence eating mangoes and fighting malaria and dengue.

Even buying back smaller units can be expensive though, as well. It likely would not reduce the costs. The initial cost to buy the units back is cheap, and then you have to pay the price to change the HQ from General Defense. That is the big cost. Even shattered brigades have been up to 350 PPs right after being brought back! Not cheap.

True! I've just made a HUGE mistake, buying back the 33rd ID to change it to an unrestricted HQ it costed me... 650 PPs!!!!!!...and she arrived with 3(three!!!) squads... 650 PPs?!?!?!?!
A huge mistake by my side...indeed. I should have left it where it was... with 650 PPs I could buy half a full Chinese division[:@]

How fast do IJ units take replacements? I do believe NY59Giants suggestion made to me a long time ago that replacements are taken per unit .. so dividing the division up into 3 units allows for faster replacements ..

If unit is divided to A/B/C sub units each sub units is taking replacements separately. So It should be 3x faster comparing to undivided unit

[Crackaces]

ORIGINAL: koniu

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy





True! I've just made a HUGE mistake, buying back the 33rd ID to change it to an unrestricted HQ it costed me... 650 PPs!!!!!!...and she arrived with 3(three!!!) squads... 650 PPs?!?!?!?!
A huge mistake by my side...indeed. I should have left it where it was... with 650 PPs I could buy half a full Chinese division[:@]

How fast do IJ units take replacements? I do believe NY59Giants suggestion made to me a long time ago that replacements are taken per unit .. so dividing the division up into 3 units allows for faster replacements ..

If unit is divided to A/B/C sub units each sub units is taking replacements separately. So It should be 3x faster comparing to undivided unit

and I thought 3 squads per day per unit so 9 squads per day? so jut over a month to replace the unit assuming 25K supplies and an admin rating over 50?

[Crackaces]

ORIGINAL: koniu

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy





True! I've just made a HUGE mistake, buying back the 33rd ID to change it to an unrestricted HQ it costed me... 650 PPs!!!!!!...and she arrived with 3(three!!!) squads... 650 PPs?!?!?!?!
A huge mistake by my side...indeed. I should have left it where it was... with 650 PPs I could buy half a full Chinese division[:@]

How fast do IJ units take replacements? I do believe NY59Giants suggestion made to me a long time ago that replacements are taken per unit .. so dividing the division up into 3 units allows for faster replacements ..

If unit is divided to A/B/C sub units each sub units is taking replacements separately. So It should be 3x faster comparing to undivided unit

and I thought 3 squads per day per unit so 9 squads per day? so jut over a month to replace the unit assuming 25K supplies and an admin rating over 50?

[koniu]

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

ORIGINAL: koniu

ORIGINAL: Crackaces




How fast do IJ units take replacements? I do believe NY59Giants suggestion made to me a long time ago that replacements are taken per unit .. so dividing the division up into 3 units allows for faster replacements ..

If unit is divided to A/B/C sub units each sub units is taking replacements separately. So It should be 3x faster comparing to undivided unit

and I thought 3 squads per day per unit so 9 squads per day? so jut over a month to replace the unit assuming 25K supplies and an admin rating over 50?

When i lost 90% of ID in late `42. Remnants return to Japan. Two months later ID was rebuild and trained to national max. That was fast

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

ORIGINAL: koniu

ORIGINAL: Crackaces




How fast do IJ units take replacements? I do believe NY59Giants suggestion made to me a long time ago that replacements are taken per unit .. so dividing the division up into 3 units allows for faster replacements ..

If unit is divided to A/B/C sub units each sub units is taking replacements separately. So It should be 3x faster comparing to undivided unit

and I thought 3 squads per day per unit so 9 squads per day? so jut over a month to replace the unit assuming 25K supplies and an admin rating over 50?

Aren't the replacements taken on a weekly basis instead of a daily one? I have already re-built a division from scratch and it took me nearly 6 months to get it back at 100/100, even dividing it into 3 rgts... strange!

However the point isn't the time needed. The point is the PPs and HIs spent to do it.

If you consider that to buy a destroyed division and to change it to an unrestricted command HQ costs 650 PPs... then you need...how many ARM and VEH points to rebuilt it?...Am not that good at math, but I know the cost is high and you have so many other units coming online to be fed with those pools (ARM and VEH) that the cost might simply be too high, also considering you are getting a brand new rebuilt division with low morale and low experience...

[veji1]

Silly question but can't you keep fragments of some units to rebuild or has that been changed ?

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: veji1

Silly question but can't you keep fragments of some units to rebuild or has that been changed ?

Sure you can, but i'm not doing that...finding a bit "gamey".

My rule of thumb is the following: when a unit has some chance of being "saved" using conventional methods (evacuating by sea or by air), and when I manage to extract at least 1/3 of it, then I keep the fragment and rebuild the LCU from that fragment. When I know that a unit cannot be saved (for tactical or strategical reasons - maybe you need it to die there thus buying time for other units to get saved-) I avoid extracting a single fragment and leave it there to die and, eventually, i'll buy it back.

It's not an HR...it's just my personal way of "role" playing a bit...

[veji1]

That is very civil of you !