OT: Corona virus

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

I'm not able to spend the time to follow this thread closely, but I did see mention of a couple of issues I'd like to comment on despite having no qualifications whatever. First on the hydro chloroquine (or whatever, from memory) and the Jewish doctor trying a regimen of it, azythromycin (memory, too) and zinc sulfate. While it is hopeful that the claims are true, there's no clinical evidence for it and what there is is anecdotal with disputes and arguments among principals as to the full truth. Wait for actual clinical trials. There appears to be solid reasons for proceeding with those, it seems to me. However, I'd like to make a couple of points. One, should azythromycin be in this regimen? Just me, but probably not, especially for the (again anecdotal) supposed patients having tried it. Antibiotics are often prescribed ahead of and/or following various surgical procedures for safety. We're not talking about that here and the anectdotal subjects were not about to go under the knife nor did they exhibit signs of pneumonia, another good reason for antibiotics. And there's potential side effects, and there's the question as to if it's a good idea to include a or more than one antibiotic, is azythromycin the right one or one of the right ones to give? Much to weigh there. As to the zinc sulfate, zinc is an essential nutrient and I also take a zinc supplement for helping to control my cholesterol, but my understanding is that anything over twice the recommended allowance is toxic, so that should be taken with care.

Second, on the non-clinical trials at the U of Penn Med Center of a potential vaccine or vaccine prototype, my understanding is that there have yet to be any clinical trials and we should wait for those, which I would guess could be completed in about six months.

Anyways, we should be very careful of taking any recommendations by Doctors Trump, Hannity or Giuliani.

Hopefully both treatments will prove to be useful at least, and if so that will be very good news indeed for the President. So those of you who live in the US can now safely return to making your plans for exile in Canada, Australia or whatever safe harbor you have your eyes on. I'm thinking about Afghanistan.

Well, azythromycin may be used to counter secondary infections. The zinc is also used to counter both fungal and viral infections. Think over the counter dandruff shampoos with zinc, zinc oxide ointment to counter fungal skin infections, and zinc lozenges for sore throats/colds.

[geofflambert]

I forgot to mention that I am allergic to quinine, it gives me roaring diarrhea. I imagine I would just flush the stuff through if ingesting it.

[JohnDillworth]

Construction is one industry that has been slow to close

Construction was the last thing to close in NYC. Demobilization is frightfully expensive and the large projects go into the half billion dollar range and are performance based so the only way they were shutting down is if the government mandated it.....which they did. I think in insurance-speak this is called "force majeure" so the builder can not be penalized for a work stoppage beyond their control. There are a couple of exceptions; hospitals, medical, telecommunication infrastructure , data centers and public safety. I had a couple of things in flight and had to write letters to get the exemptions but about 95% was shut down with a fine of $100,000 for each day of violation. I expect the UK finances big projects in a similar fashion so that's why they have been slow to shut down

[Canoerebel]

Man, John, we could be exact twins (except your a bit slimmer than I am, at the moment).

Re Obesity, we had that conversation in my house last week. Wife and I agreed it really began to change in the '80s with fast food, super-size, and soda; plus so many people used to have physical jobs (farming, etc.); plus the change to a sedentary lifestyle. In the '60s and '70s of my childhood, we boys would gather whenever not in school to play hide-n-seek, baseball, football, swimming, etc. I can count on my hand the number of times I've seen boys in a neighborhood playing football (twice in 30 years).

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

I'd seen that report and others previously. Vaping and obesity were suggested as possible reasons.

ER nurse in the thick of it was interviewed on 60 minutes last Sunday and when asked for risk factors she said 60% were males and obesity seems to be the highest risk factor for death. Whilst I can't change my age or gender (although I heard that is not a hard and fast rule these days)I do qualify as "overweight" but I'm a bit shy of obese. I'm 60 years old, never smoked, 6,1' and 220lbs and can run a few miles so I'm hoping a lifetime of exercise and half of a lifetime of clean living will be on my side. Battled weight my whole life and for the most part am winning but the last 10 years it seems a lot of people have gotten heavier so I look god in comparison. Not sure where this obesity epidemic started (fast food, TV, video games,people don't walk anymore, sedentary jobs, all of the above?)but it is here and if it is a risk factor lots of folks are in trouble. Too early for silver linings but maybe people will enjoy getting outside after being locked up with each other for so long.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

Relatively low cases and mortalities in "hot" countries have been a topic of interest.

Nigeria is an interesting case in point. The first case arrived in Lagos about a month ago. There were dire predictions that mayhem would result in that supercity. But it didn't happen - or hasn't seemed to, by the numbers shown. Why not?

Possibilities - testing is spotty there, mortality reporting is done differently and poorly, or climate does play a roll.

Not a major transportation hub and probably not much testing. This will get into the southern hemisphere and 3rd world countries soon enough. Never been but I presume that Lagos has the density for this to take off. The beast is sometimes slow, but it is relentless.

It could be climate.

"I doubt we will see a big outbreak in Africa," said Hunter, a medical professor at the University of East Anglia as well at Tshwane University of Technology in South Africa.

"Droplet diseases don't seem to be as big an issue in Africa," he said, adding that SARS, a respiratory disease that is also a coronavirus, spread through 26 countries in 2003 but failed to gain a hold in Africa. Influenza epidemics are also less intense on the continent, he pointed out.
In addition, in Africa people generally don't live crammed together in such densely populated areas and they also spend a lot more time out-of-doors in Africa than they do in northern countries.

"I think that mitigates against such a severe outbreak," Hunter told DW.

[MakeeLearn]

What 11 Billion People Mean for Disease Outbreaks

The explosive growth of the human population—from 2.5 billion to 6 billion since the second half of the 20th century—may have already started changing how infectious diseases emerge

By Bahar Gholipour, LiveScience on November 26, 2013

https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... outbreaks/


" "We should expect to see a continuous acceleration of progresses, but this is not a given," Khan said. "I think people nowadays have a false sense of security, and I think part of this is that public health is working,” but that can only last so long if public health resources keep decreasing instead of strengthening, he said.

“We have eradicated and eliminated some diseases from our community, but the honest truth is most diseases don't get eliminated," Khan said. "Most diseases come home to stay.""

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

We are never going to get outside again. The MTA, who runs the subways in NYC, has many employees out with Covid adding to the previous service cuts. Subways are sometimes erratic, and some folks are continuing to work and commute, probably by necessity. I won't go near the things myself, but if this continues (an isolated incident I hope) this wont end. The subways need to be shut down.

warspite1

Sadly London is the same..... [&:] Some people still need to work and can't work from home. So what do they do? Cut down on the number of trains and tubes running. Okay.....

I think the last numbers were that tube traffic was down 95% now though. So if NHS workers need to get to work I think they'll be okay.

Construction is one industry that has been slow to close, and anecdotal evidence from my neighbourhood would also suggest this is a strong vector for continued spread of the virus. These guys don't wear protective gear for their job (which they should do), let alone for the virus. They're all sitting within a few feet having a smoke break, and they all have to get from the outskirts of London into the center on the tube.

I think it's slowing now, but not done yet.

Are you in London Warspite? If so where?

warspite1

Yep. The warspites are Londoners born and bred. Currently in the southeast of this fine city. What about you?

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

Relatively low cases and mortalities in "hot" countries have been a topic of interest.

Nigeria is an interesting case in point. The first case arrived in Lagos about a month ago. There were dire predictions that mayhem would result in that supercity. But it didn't happen - or hasn't seemed to, by the numbers shown. Why not?

Possibilities - testing is spotty there, mortality reporting is done differently and poorly, or climate does play a roll.

Not a major transportation hub and probably not much testing. This will get into the southern hemisphere and 3rd world countries soon enough. Never been but I presume that Lagos has the density for this to take off. The beast is sometimes slow, but it is relentless.

It could be climate.

"I doubt we will see a big outbreak in Africa," said Hunter, a medical professor at the University of East Anglia as well at Tshwane University of Technology in South Africa.

"Droplet diseases don't seem to be as big an issue in Africa," he said, adding that SARS, a respiratory disease that is also a coronavirus, spread through 26 countries in 2003 but failed to gain a hold in Africa. Influenza epidemics are also less intense on the continent, he pointed out.
In addition, in Africa people generally don't live crammed together in such densely populated areas and they also spend a lot more time out-of-doors in Africa than they do in northern countries.

"I think that mitigates against such a severe outbreak," Hunter told DW.

Remember one study of the virus suggested some genes predominant in sub-Saharan Africa might confer immunity. We'll have to wait and see.

[JohnDillworth]

Man, John, we could be exact twins (except your a bit slimmer than I am, at the moment).

"slimmer" is kind Wow, I pictured you as much thinner. You hike for miles and miles and miles and still have to watch what you eat. It's hard, and gotten harder and one gets older. I agree with you on the soda. The sizes are absolutely insane. My job would allow me to sit for 90% of the day. I won't do it. Besides my regularly scheduled exercise I walk at least 4 miles a day and 50 flights of stars. I'm what my family called " a walker". I can't think sitting down, my brain seems connected to my legs. I think the constant motion helps. My dad was a mechanic, he was always "puttering" never sat still. Eat like a horse and thin as a rail. I think that is the secret.

[MakeeLearn]

China locked in hybrid war with US
Fallout from Covid-19 outbreak puts Beijing and Washington on a collision course
March 17, 2020

https://asiatimes.com/2020/03/china-loc ... r-with-us/


"It’s not even spring yet, and we already know it takes a virus to mercilessly shatter the Goddess of the Market. Last Friday, Goldman Sachs told no fewer than 1,500 corporations that there was no systemic risk. That was false.

New York banking sources told me the truth: systemic risk became way more severe in 2020 than in 1979, 1987 or 2008 because of the hugely heightened danger that the $1.5 quadrillion derivative market would collapse.

As the sources put it, history had never before seen anything like the Fed’s intervention via its little understood elimination of commercial bank reserve requirements, unleashing a potential unlimited expansion of credit to prevent a derivative implosion stemming from a total commodity and stock market collapse of all stocks around the world.

Those bankers thought it would work, but as we know by now all the sound and fury signified nothing. The ghost of a derivative implosion – in this case not caused by the previous possibility, the shutting down of the Strait of Hormuz – remains.

We are still barely starting to understand the consequences of Covid-19 for the future of neoliberal turbo-capitalism. What’s certain is that the whole global economy has been hit by an insidious, literally invisible circuit breaker. This may be just a “coincidence.” Or this may be, as some are boldly arguing, part of a possible, massive psy-op creating the perfect geopolitlcal and social engineering environment for full-spectrum dominance.

Additionally, along the hard slog down the road, with immense, inbuilt human and economic sacrifice, with or without a reboot of the world-system, a more pressing question remains: will imperial elites still choose to keep waging full-spectrum-dominance hybrid war against China? "

[Canoerebel]

I weigh more, I'm an inch taller, and we are the same age.

Like you, I've battled weight most of my life. I do a ton of outdoors things, all of which make me hungry.

I'm in pretty good shape - I can go hard and long. But I'm working on trimming down, since (as you noted) age isn't something in our control.

[JohnDillworth]

First on the hydro chloroquine (or whatever, from memory) and the Jewish doctor trying a regimen of it, azythromycin (memory, too) and zinc sulfate.

Rubbish. Doctors should know better. Virus simply don't work that way. No one has ever invented a medication to kill a virus once it has gotten a good foothold in a body. Even the bet anti-virals we have only shorten durations and even then only if you take them soon enough. Vaccines, prevention, isolation, quarantine help the spread. This is a community disease and if people are expecting a magic bullet they are going to be disappointed, sick or dead.

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Man, John, we could be exact twins (except your a bit slimmer than I am, at the moment).

Re Obesity, we had that conversation in my house last week. Wife and I agreed it really began to change in the '80s with fast food, super-size, and soda; plus so many people used to have physical jobs (farming, etc.); plus the change to a sedentary lifestyle. In the '60s and '70s of my childhood, we boys would gather whenever not in school to play hide-n-seek, baseball, football, swimming, etc. I can count on my hand the number of times I've seen boys in a neighborhood playing football (twice in 30 years).

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

I'd seen that report and others previously. Vaping and obesity were suggested as possible reasons.

ER nurse in the thick of it was interviewed on 60 minutes last Sunday and when asked for risk factors she said 60% were males and obesity seems to be the highest risk factor for death. Whilst I can't change my age or gender (although I heard that is not a hard and fast rule these days)I do qualify as "overweight" but I'm a bit shy of obese. I'm 60 years old, never smoked, 6,1' and 220lbs and can run a few miles so I'm hoping a lifetime of exercise and half of a lifetime of clean living will be on my side. Battled weight my whole life and for the most part am winning but the last 10 years it seems a lot of people have gotten heavier so I look god in comparison. Not sure where this obesity epidemic started (fast food, TV, video games,people don't walk anymore, sedentary jobs, all of the above?)but it is here and if it is a risk factor lots of folks are in trouble. Too early for silver linings but maybe people will enjoy getting outside after being locked up with each other for so long.

A simple reason may also be the amount of fructose consumed as in (HFCS) high fructose corn syrup. The body metabolizes it differently than glucose even though the chemical formula is the same. Look it up. Also, the modern HFCS is now 80% fructose and 20% glucose.

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/wh ... u#section3

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3533803/

[Canoerebel]

What is HFCS? Houston Fried Chicken Sandwiches?

[Encircled]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

It isn't a far fetched notion that the youngsters might just start seeing this as nature's methodology for culling the overpopulated herd.

May not be long before we Boomers start being seen as expendible.

It is far fetched to put it mildly

Look, it must suck being old and not being able to do whatever you want anymore, but lets keep it sensible eh?

(I'm 47 btw, not a boomer, but also not a youngster!)

[MakeeLearn]

Vietnam, Don't shoot to kill, Wound and overburden the opposing force.

As posted before this reminds of talks me I had with Americans that had lived for years in China.

[MakeeLearn]

Is fructose bad for you?
Posted April 26, 2011,


https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/is- ... 1104262425

"Virtually every cell in the body can use glucose for energy. In contrast, only liver cells break down fructose. What happens to fructose inside liver cells is complicated. One of the end products is triglyceride, a form of fat. Uric acid and free radicals are also formed."



"Experts still have a long way to go to connect the dots between fructose and nonalcoholic fatty liver disease, obesity, diabetes, heart disease, and cancer. Higher intakes of fructose are associated with these conditions, but clinical trials have yet to show that it causes them. There are plenty of reasons to avoid sugary drinks and foods with added sugar, like empty calories, weight gain, and blood sugar swings."

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

What is HFCS? Houston Fried Chicken Sandwiches?

HFCS => high fructose corn syrup as I put in my post.

[Canoerebel]

[MakeeLearn]

Sun Tzu’s conviction is that victory and defeat are fundamentally psychological states. He sees war, not so much as a matter of destroying the enemy materially and physically, but of unsettling the enemy psychologically; his goal is to force the enemy’s leadership and society from a condition of harmony, in which they can resist effectively, toward chaos(luan), which is tantamount to defeat.