Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)

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ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

I actually wouldn't bump up Judy production any farther unless you absolutely need to. Once you get the D4Y3 (or 4 if you're going that far on R&D), I think production of even the 150 you have allocated now is too much. They simply don't see much action aside from KB strikes.

You absolutely need more Jills. I would bump to 60 for now. With the number you have allocated to R&D, I'm not sure I'd R&D the Grace.


Don't listen to nygiants about the Oscar-IV. Don't give in. It's not a good plane for 1944+.


For Corsair sweeps, I've found Jacks/Georges/Franks do OK as long as you have the right settings (usually low/mid altitude). Unfortunately, the Corsair is one of the planes the Allies can afford to sweep with simply to attrit your numbers - they get a lot of them, starting with the -1D model. So even if you're killing a lot of them, there are always more...

+1 (except Oscar)[:)]

For low CAP settings the Oscar is ideal. Recently using Oscar III as a low CAP at 5k, Jacks, Georges and Franks layered at 7k and 9k in my late game (mid-44) Corsairs suffered 1:2 losses. The Oscar is good at evading so the top planes can dive, and it's a great escort, a very LR CAP plane and decent at everything else. The drawbacks are the same as every other Oscar, but the poses are the 20mm CL canons.

[rustysi]

The Oscars... some use the IV models as kamikaze planes.

As a kamikaze plane I think I'd stick with the IIIa. IIRC it has a range of 8 as opposed to 6 for the IV. Their speed isn't that much different and who cares what guns a kami carries. In addition both carry two 250kg bombs. I believe both aircraft have armor. So for me the IIIa wins on range.

[Lokasenna]

I'd rather use a Frank as a kamikaze than an Oscar. That's how much I hate the Oscar after 1942. It's just not good. The very definition of mediocre.

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

I'd rather use a Frank as a kamikaze than an Oscar. That's how much I hate the Oscar after 1942. It's just not good. The very definition of mediocre.

I'm with Loka on this one. The Oscar can do many things, but none of them very well.

Granted, it has a very high MVR rating, but that requires strong pilots to take advantage of, and in every case those pilots would be better off in flying a more competitive airplane. Even the Ki-100 is better in my view, but the Frank is preferable.

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: ny59giants_MatrixForum

IJA Fighters - The Oscars will be your long range escort planes and some use the IV models as kamikaze planes. From what little I know, your going to use Franks and more Franks as your best fighters. The Tojo is good until mid-44 mainly due to their SR1. Cannot say anything about Tony as I'm producing only 30 per month (the factory has a relative of yours running the place so the numbers are kept low [:D]).

IJN Fighters - Looks like you are behind on the Sam which is what you will need to face the 2nd gen Corsairs on your CVs. Reading Canoerebels AAR, he is doing very well with the Corsairs sweeping in '45.

DBs - I would increase them to 90/month. The 3rd gen gets you to SR1 with 500kg bomb, The 4th gen come with those nasty 800kg bombs. You need to replace the Vals where ever they are being used, IMO.

TBs - Only 30 Jills per month?? Really?!? I have to go up to 90/month. You get extra range carrying a TT besides the speed increase. Kates just for use around Japan in ASW groups and training.

You need to treat KB like the USN did towards the SSBNs I worked on in late 70s and early 80s. Nothing was too good for those subs. She is your samurai sword.

Looking even farther ahead, you will need the fastest bombers to get to DS and use as kamikazes. So, look at your R&D efforts there.

Man, lots of discussion and a lot of turns to post too.

IJA fighters: I'm beginning to like the Oscar less and less. I finally got a sentai of Oscar IIIa in combat. Not very impressive, to say the least. At least it's over a friendly airfield, so I'm not losing many pilots. The Frank, Tojo and Tony are going to be my main fighters. I just put my first Tony in combat the turn I just sent so we'll see how they perform. I'm probably going to switch one Oscar factory to something else (currently 2x32 & 1x64 - don't ask [:D]).

IJN Fighters: Currently the A6M5, A6M5c and George while working on the George K2 (9/43) and Sam. 11 Sam factories at 4,4,2,2,2,2,1,1,0,0,0/30. Got a ways to go. The George is doing ok but SR3 coupled with airfield damage is hurting it.

DBs: I'm really only building 30 Judies a month. The other 30 are off. I really want the D4Y3 (and Y4 eventually). Early on, I built a LOT of engines for the Y1 & 2 accidentally. I still have 400 left. They'll all future Kamikazes. They Y2 & Y3 both become operational in Nov 43. Then one will do the Y2 and the other the Y3. I do need to increase one by 30 and turn on the other.

TB: I increased the Jill factory to 60. I'll reassess when it completes that.

My carrier planes have taken amazingly low losses. That's part of the reason I'm still using the old planes. But you're right, I need to upgrade.

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: ny59giants_MatrixForum

Look at the max and cruise speeds along with the normal range (7 to 10) to carry a torpedo. This is why you need to crank up production. [:)]

Yeah, yeah, I got it! [:D]

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

I actually wouldn't bump up Judy production any farther unless you absolutely need to. Once you get the D4Y3 (or 4 if you're going that far on R&D), I think production of even the 150 you have allocated now is too much. They simply don't see much action aside from KB strikes.

You absolutely need more Jills. I would bump to 60 for now. With the number you have allocated to R&D, I'm not sure I'd R&D the Grace.


Don't listen to nygiants about the Oscar-IV. Don't give in. It's not a good plane for 1944+.


For Corsair sweeps, I've found Jacks/Georges/Franks do OK as long as you have the right settings (usually low/mid altitude). Unfortunately, the Corsair is one of the planes the Allies can afford to sweep with simply to attrit your numbers - they get a lot of them, starting with the -1D model. So even if you're killing a lot of them, there are always more...

I'm actually building only 30 Judies. 90 are R&D for the Y3 then Y4 and 30 are off. I'll probably increase the one that's on to 60 then start the other when the Y2 becomes operational. The Y1 & Y2 are destined to become Kamikazes and the Y3 & Y4 for the carriers.

Jills have been bumped to 60. Oscar, I'm reducing production. I see Kamikazes in their future.

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

I actually wouldn't bump up Judy production any farther unless you absolutely need to. Once you get the D4Y3 (or 4 if you're going that far on R&D), I think production of even the 150 you have allocated now is too much. They simply don't see much action aside from KB strikes.

You absolutely need more Jills. I would bump to 60 for now. With the number you have allocated to R&D, I'm not sure I'd R&D the Grace.


Don't listen to nygiants about the Oscar-IV. Don't give in. It's not a good plane for 1944+.


For Corsair sweeps, I've found Jacks/Georges/Franks do OK as long as you have the right settings (usually low/mid altitude). Unfortunately, the Corsair is one of the planes the Allies can afford to sweep with simply to attrit your numbers - they get a lot of them, starting with the -1D model. So even if you're killing a lot of them, there are always more...

I'm actually building only 30 Judies. 90 are R&D for the Y3 then Y4 and 30 are off. I'll probably increase the one that's on to 60 then start the other when the Y2 becomes operational. The Y1 & Y2 are destined to become Kamikazes and the Y3 & Y4 for the carriers.

Jills have been bumped to 60. Oscar, I'm reducing production. I see Kamikazes in their future.

Be careful with this line of thought.

Better to keep the reinforcement "training" squadrons for training fighter pilots for the late-war pilot Armageddon. Nor would I suggest converting conventional fighter squadrons to kami duty.

It's became my view that the optimum strategy is to build the dedicated kami planes (Ki-115 and Toka) in bulk and use them to convert the portion of the reinforcement "training" squadrons that arrive using the Stella or K5Y. The training squadrons that use fighter airframes should help bolster the fighter pilot program.

Basically, you need trained fighter pilots alot more than you need half-trained NavB pilots. Using Oscars for kami's reduces your potential pool of trained fighter pilots and thus should be avoided like the plauge.

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ORIGINAL: mind_messing

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

I actually wouldn't bump up Judy production any farther unless you absolutely need to. Once you get the D4Y3 (or 4 if you're going that far on R&D), I think production of even the 150 you have allocated now is too much. They simply don't see much action aside from KB strikes.

You absolutely need more Jills. I would bump to 60 for now. With the number you have allocated to R&D, I'm not sure I'd R&D the Grace.


Don't listen to nygiants about the Oscar-IV. Don't give in. It's not a good plane for 1944+.


For Corsair sweeps, I've found Jacks/Georges/Franks do OK as long as you have the right settings (usually low/mid altitude). Unfortunately, the Corsair is one of the planes the Allies can afford to sweep with simply to attrit your numbers - they get a lot of them, starting with the -1D model. So even if you're killing a lot of them, there are always more...

I'm actually building only 30 Judies. 90 are R&D for the Y3 then Y4 and 30 are off. I'll probably increase the one that's on to 60 then start the other when the Y2 becomes operational. The Y1 & Y2 are destined to become Kamikazes and the Y3 & Y4 for the carriers.

Jills have been bumped to 60. Oscar, I'm reducing production. I see Kamikazes in their future.

Be careful with this line of thought.

Better to keep the reinforcement "training" squadrons for training fighter pilots for the late-war pilot Armageddon. Nor would I suggest converting conventional fighter squadrons to kami duty.

It's became my view that the optimum strategy is to build the dedicated kami planes (Ki-115 and Toka) in bulk and use them to convert the portion of the reinforcement "training" squadrons that arrive using the Stella or K5Y. The training squadrons that use fighter airframes should help bolster the fighter pilot program.

Basically, you need trained fighter pilots alot more than you need half-trained NavB pilots. Using Oscars for kami's reduces your potential pool of trained fighter pilots and thus should be avoided like the plauge.

One road that works late is to spend some PPs to convert 2E bomber groups to FB and use those for some rear area CAP and training. They're probably also great kamis, since they're fast and fairly durable, but I'd side with mind_messing that you need them more as fighter groups/pilot training.

If you're making the Nick and researching the Randy those.

I wouldn't necessarily increase Judys. I'd try for more Grace or Peggy-T before more Judys if intended for kamis.

The late war training groups are really useful, and using them with the specialised kami planes can be useful, but those planes are short ranged and not so durable. Not as good as other kamis IMHO. I'd rather have the overabundance of 2E planes I'm not going to be using much anymore fly a lot of the first kami missions alongside Graces, Judys and Jills.

[Mike Solli]

Guys, very good points about the fighters and late war. You're right, I hadn't thought about the need for lots of fighter pilots late war. This is the farthest I've ever gotten in any game.

One thing about the Judy 1 & 2 though. I have 400 engines that can be used only for those planes. I am going to have some 600 of them and would rather use the Y3 & Y4 on my carriers so they're likely Kamikaze candidates. Those 90 R&D planes will convert to something else when they're done with the Judy, probably more A7M2s.

I currently have 4 Grace R&D factories (27,20,16,16) and 3 Randy FB R&D factories (24,19,17).

[Lowpe]

I feel that you can convert one Army fighter squadron to kamikazes...but definitely not Oscars, but Frank As'.

[Lowpe]

Oscars are a very situational plane the further the game goes...the model IV, SR1, makes for a decent cap trap against Allied carrier forces. It can stand up to Hellcats on escort and get into the SBDs.

It makes for a good very low CAP, between 2k and 4k, in a low layered cap defense where the bulk of the planes are Sams, George, and Franks.

You should be able to convert every light bomber squadron to a FB...for 10pp per plane size in the unit.

[Mike Solli]

Thanks, Lowpe. That's really good information I have no clue about. When you say "low layered CAP", can you explain further? What heights per plane type?

[DanSez]

Layered lower cap
(from a novice still trying to perfect the tactic)

3 or 4 fighter groups

Your heavy hitters at the top stacks
Your fast nimble defender at the bottom

Example:
4 units. A Frank, A Tony, A Tojo and an Oscar

Frank Top slot (12-14k)
Tojo slot (9-10k)
Tony slot (6-8k)
Oscar slot (4-6k)

Sweepers come in and dive on targets of opportunity which tends to be the lowest stack.
Then your Franks will dive and bounce the sweepers
Then it all gets mixed in, but the Oscars took the first shot and being the most agile, are a little more likely to survive.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Thanks, Lowpe. That's really good information I have no clue about. When you say "low layered CAP", can you explain further? What heights per plane type?

Dan got the gist, that is a good low layered cap to intercept bombers and sweepers.

For intercepting Jugs sweeps, I like 4K, 7K and 9K.

The value of the Oscar is that you invested the supply in it during Dec of 1941, and you can use the plane in an ever shrinking variety of roles for the rest of the war.

[Mike Solli]

Guys, thanks much for the detailed info. It's already copied into the notes I keep. [:)]

[Mike Solli]

22 Jul 43

Sub War
5 Fleet

Nothing to report.

4 Fleet

Things are much quieter now. The US CVs have disappeared, probably south. I have subs scattered around but not a whiff of them. My CVs are coming together and will refuel and then I’ll decide what to do with them. The Allied shipping has scattered as well. Right now, I don’t see a reason to go anywhere with my carriers because it would most likely be a waste of fuel. Ted admitted that he did a full speed run the turn I lost track of the carriers so they have to be low on fuel. There have to be AOs out there somewhere too, but I can’t see them either.

I’m going to proceed with my invasion of Tabiteuea. I want to keep his naval search at arms-length as long as possible. I hope he brings his carriers back. I’ll be able to clobber him.

SE Fleet

Today, 136 bomber sorties hit Kavieng’s airfield again, effectively doing no damage to an already destroyed airfield:

Manus: 100-100-8, runway down 6
Kavieng: 82-100-98, no change
Rabaul: 44-11-0, service down 36
Talasea: 0-100-78, runway down 7

I moved a 36 plane Oscar IIIa sentai to Manus to ambush the SBDs that have been flying unescorted there every day to hit my ground troops. Should be fun. This is my first (and only, so far) operational Ki-43-IIIa sentai and this is the first time Ted will see them. I hope they take the heat off the troops long enough to recover their morale and disruption so the engineers repair the airfield more quickly. Being SR1, they should repair their damage relatively quickly once the service begins to repair.

I suspect Gasmata is next on the invasion hit list. Four YMS visited Gasmata today to clear mines but paid the price. While none were reported sunk, all four took damage from CD guns (I love CD guns!) and were left with heavy fires and heavy damage. They did clear 43 mines, however.

Finally, the Allies flew multiple sweeps and one small bombing raid against Rabaul. The 6x B-24s came in first. Four were shot down and a fifth taken down by flak. Then, four sweeps showed up with 49x P-47s and 6x P-38Gs. A total of 9x A6M5s, 16 Georges and 30 Tojos defended. Final losses were 10 Tojos, 3 Georges and 3 Zeros to 18x P-47s and 3x P-38s. The IJN lost 1 KIA and 4 WIA while the IJA lost 3 KIA and 7 WIA. Intel reported 5 more P-47s as op losses while two more Japanese fighters were op losses.

SRA
Burma
China
Other Stuff

Nothing to report.

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ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Thanks, Lowpe. That's really good information I have no clue about. When you say "low layered CAP", can you explain further? What heights per plane type?

Dan got the gist, that is a good low layered cap to intercept bombers and sweepers.

For intercepting Jugs sweeps, I like 4K, 7K and 9K.

The value of the Oscar is that you invested the supply in it during Dec of 1941, and you can use the plane in an ever shrinking variety of roles for the rest of the war.

This is something Lowpe championed. I'd seen evidence of something interesting using a low CAP in my game with Jocke, but didn't really explore it further until Lowpe started using it and I saw the results.

Between games I did some tests. Here is a fairly comprehensive thread compiling a lot of the tests.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4047529&mpage=1&key=low%2CCAP

The gist of what I found is that a layered CAP below 10k, (not with a top slot at 12-14k as DanSex advocates above) can really combat high sweeps by the Allied best.

My typical use would be as follows:

Frank/George: 9k (these would have the best pilots, would be more groups as well)

Jack/Ki-100/George: 7k (these would be good 60-70exp pilots with good defensive skills)

Oscar/A6M5c/A6M8: 5k (These would be decent pilots with 70 defensive skill)

The only modification I'd make is if strikes are set lower than 5k, so another layer might by at 2-3k, but I don't like using four layers. The sweepers do more destruction with the bottom two layers and the top CAP doesn't get to dive on as many if the space is too great between them. I'd rather do 8k, 6k, 4k.

There are ways to combat it, but what results is a cat and mouse about settings, with the strato sweeping P-47 and Corsairs not quite ever completely dominating as I'e seen so often. This is also good against bombers, as the Japanese planes have good climb and the top layers usually last longer in these combats.

[Mike Solli]

Furiously taking notes!

[Mike Solli]

23 Jul 43

Sub War
5 Fleet

Nothing to report.

4 Fleet

My invasion fleet is slowly working its way south to the jump off point for the invasion of Tabiteuea. I’ve got the 90 Regiment and some AS with engineers as follow on.

SE Fleet

Something different today – Allied bombing of Japanese airfields. Today’s target? You guessed it. Rabaul. Basically, a bunch of bombers escorted by a bunch of fighters came in. In the end, I shot down 14 fighters and 8 bombers for a loss of 8 fighters (IJN: 4 KIA, 1 WIA and IJA: 1 KIA, 1 WIA) and damage to the airfield.

Manus: 100-96-0, down 8 runway and 4 service.
Kavieng: 82-100-96, down 2 runway. The engineers are still highly disrupted.
Rabaul: 44-42-28, up 28 runway and 31 service.
Talasea: 0-100-71, down 7 runway.

Sigh [:(]

SRA

My 4 BB bombardment force hit Merauke, just because I can. First, they encountered 4x SCs, which they destroyed. Then they did a number on the airfield, destroying 8 aircraft and damaging another 80 if you believe the intel. Personally, I believe they were smoking something before making the report.

Anyway, it’s fun. Merauke is effectively isolated, but there are some 16k troops there so invading it is out of the question. I do have the 48 and 16 Divisions and the 65 Brigade available. It would be nice to clear out that chunk of water and turn it (somewhat) into a Japanese lake. Hmmm…

Burma
China

Nothing to report.

Other Stuff

Reinforcement: III/66 Naval Guard has been rebuilt and will become the Yap garrison. Note that the former Yap garrision (Bandasan SNLF) is now the Timoeka garrison.

The Ki-84a Frank R&D advanced to 10/43 (will become operational 8/43 – can’t wait!). 1x55 & 4x30 + 28(2), 20(10), 9(21) and 1(29)
The P1Y1 Francis R&D advanced to 9/43 and will become operational on 9/1/43. The single R&D factory just upgraded to the P1Y2, which is expected to become operational on 6/44.