GC 76mm (Sov) vs Ketza (Ketza Welcome)

[76mm]

In the battles in the previous turn, I had Engineer values of 21, 18, 14, and 7, I am not sure if those correspond directly to pioneer regiments. Basically all of my rifle corps in the Shock and Reserve Fronts have at least one, usually 2, pioneer regiments. The new rifle corps outside of those fronts don't have any pioneers yet, but the battles shown from the previous turn basically only involved corps from those fronts, with few exceptions.

And I do have some artillery divisions in the battles; I have only built a handful so far because they only have 250 guns, and my battles already feature 3000+ guns (and a 10x superiority), so I'm not sure of the utility of adding another 250 guns.

[KenchiSulla]

Perhaps you should check out the disruption caused by your heavy artillery. They also reduce forts a bit. That might just give you the odds you need.

[76mm]

ORIGINAL: Cannonfodder

Perhaps you should check out the disruption caused by your heavy artillery. They also reduce forts a bit. That might just give you the odds you need.

i forgot that the new patch has the details re damage, will have to check that out!

[Flaviusx]

Yeah, you've got a lot of firepower in some of these fights. Basic problem is the German unit density plus reserves is very high. The front has been static for so long that it's raised the price to crack it open.

I'm surprised he isn't being disrupted more by all the arty. Keep piling on artillery divisions. Don't forget the rocket artillery divisions, those guys pack a mean punch. The tube artillery divisions get a big upgrade in 1943, also which increases their firepower substantially.

[76mm]

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx
Basic problem is the German unit density plus reserves is very high. The front has been static for so long that it's raised the price to crack it open.

Yes and no. Actually the basic problem is that pre-1.05 he was able to build up Level 3 and 4 forts across all across the front, two or three hexes deep, and after 1.05 they removed the 1:1 rule that would have made it feasible to attack these positions. It makes a huge difference.

In 1942, he basically didn't move his front line at all--occassionally he would swoop out, encircle a couple of armies, kill them, and retreat back to his lines. This tactic will be even more deadly under 1.05, because the Sov units will be weaker and they will not be able to entrench as well as I could (even though as far as I could tell, my level 3 and 4 forts made NO difference when he attacked). And even if reserves are near, they will find it much more difficult to break a pocket without the 1:1 rule (and because of the fewer armaments).

I've had enough fun with this tactic in this game and that's why I'm not starting any new games under 1.05.

[76mm]

Turn 84.

Launched a couple of more succesful attacks this turn, proceeding at a glacial pace. This time I turned on the detail in the combat report. Here is the first battle:

Not really sure how to read these details, but I'm kind of underwhelmed by the damage being done by the artillery. Am I missing something?

Prior to the next attack, I launched two bombing missions, here are the bombing results:


Again, not sure if I'm reading this right, but it looks like the bombing missions did ZERO damage to ground units--could that be right??

Launched the attack anyway, won, but again, doesn't seem like the arty is causing much disruption, etc.:

As an experiment, I launched a handful of low-odds no-hope attacks in quiet parts of the front, just to see what would happen, and see if I could at least knock down the fort level. Most of the attacks were miserable, expensive failures, but this one was a surprising success:


Medals for everyone, woohoo!

Working on Turn 85 now, will try to post results soon.

[76mm]

Supposedly they "fixed" airbase bombing in 1.05, but my results are better than ever...anyone else notice this?

[76mm]

I finished Turn 85, but forgot to take screenshots...

I had two more successful attacks near Kharkov, and tried several more low-odds attacks (initial 1:2 CV odds) further north. As previously, most failed, one succeeded. The frustrating thing with these attacks that that even with 1000+ guns, in most cases the fort level is not reduced at all. Really banging my head against the wall on most parts of the front.

Ketza launched several small attacks last turn, pushing troops in various hexes out of their forts. He has also dispersed his panzers a bit, has two groups near Bryansk, looks like he wants to try a pincher and cut off some troops. I shuffled some troops around as best I could, but in general my fort levels do not seem to matter a bit, so I'm not sure it will do any good.

I am slowly, slowly filling out units, creating more rifle corps, etc. I am trying to create one more assault front, similar to the shock and reserve fronts, which will be deployed a bit further north. Otherwise, I am trying to keep most fronts with divisions, with one army per front fitted out with corps (as a reserve). My remaining Stavka armies (3-4?) will also be fitted out with corps. Meanwhile I continue to create a few more rifle divs per turn, because some of my armies are thinly-manned. That is the plan anyway.

I have more than two million armament points and 900k+ men, but my army is growing very slowly, it has been stuck around 7.2 million for several turns. I also have tons of various tanks in the pool; I have not built many tank brigades/corps lately, although have created lots of tank regiments to assign to corps. I am pretty short on vehicles, I hope the lend lease trucks will fix that now that it is 1943.

[76mm]

Finished Turn 89. Nothing really happening. Slowly bludgeoning my way forward near Kharkov, building another assault front.

I think I launched four attacks, each with three stacks of rifle corps. All of them failed, and only one of them resulted in a reduction of the fort level, despite several thousand tubes of artillery and dozens of bombers. Very frustrating, I don't mind losing, but I would expect more success reducing the fort level.

I'm going to keep grinding away near Kharkov until the new assault front is ready, and then send it, and probably my two existing assault corps, somewhere else...

[76mm]

I'd like to maximize some of my rifle corps for defense rather than offense, to reduce the chance that Ketza will be able to pull off encirclements on parts of the front where I am not attacking.

Can anyone say which support units would be best to attach to rifle corps to maximize their ability to hold their ground? Machine gun SUs? Anti-tank guns? Independent tank regiments?

[Flaviusx]

My standard rifle corps package works on either the offense or defense: 1 x sapper, 1 x AT, 1 X AA. I know Q-ball likes to put tank regiments in his, I think this is a tad pricey in terms of vehicles and eventually even AFVs. (I prefer to focus all medium tank production on mobile corps, with the occasional tank regiment assigned to army HQs. Tank losses get so high eventually that I want to ensure the production goes to said corps. Select assault rifle formations might get a heavy tank regiment, as these AFVs in particular aren't part of the mobile corps TOE from 43 on. These same regiments presumably are good on defense as well.)

[M60A3TTS]

I like your notion of an assault front. But if you're going to assault a Level 3 fort or higher, I can't see how attached tanks help. Then again, I've gotten nowhere near so far along as you have. But tanks against well dug in infantry... I don't forsee a positive outcome. Sappers would more logically seem to be the fort reducer. Have you managed to pull the artillery divisions together yet? I know you said you have a lot of guns in these fights, but if those include a lot of 82mm mortars, i'd like to see if bringing the heavies to the party changes things.

[76mm]

Yeah, when assaulting fortified positions it might make sense to have 3x pioneer SUs instead of 2x pioneers and 1x tank, but a major caveat: I think you hit a point of diminishing returns at some point. I've had some battles with more than 20 engineer points, and I would guess that once you're over 10 or 12 it might be overkill. As for the reasoning for adding tanks: I just thought having tanks would add a little ooomph to an attack, even against dug-in infantry. My tank losses in these attacks on fortified positions are rather low, so no big deal.

I have created very few tank corps yet; given the static fortified line, there is no real use for them, and they are vehicle hogs, while I am currently short on vehicles.

Do pioneers help in defense as well as offense? If so, why? I guess they lay minefields, barbed wire, etc.?

I don't know how to tell from the battle report which kind of arty is participating in a battle, but I didn't buy a lot of mortars, I bought mainly the RGVK artillery (whatever that is), howitzers, and army artillery regiments. I still only have a handful of arty divisions; they only have 250 guns each and don't really seem to make a big difference, although it is hard to tell I guess. In one battle I managed to have five arty divs participate, but generally I'm lucky if I can get three in one battle. I'm going to start buying some rocket launcher divisions in a couple of weeks.

Also, I've got more than a million men in my pool, and two million armament points. OOB is now up to 7.4 million. How can I get more men from the pool faster? The divisions I've been creating seem to take forever to build up any strength.

[larryfulkerson]

ORIGINAL: 76mm
....I've got more than a million men in my pool, and two million armament points. OOB is now up to 7.4 million. How can I get more men from the pool faster? The divisions I've been creating seem to take forever to build up any strength.

Um........does it depend on how many rifle squads you have in the pool? How many Rifle Squads do you have in the pool?

[76mm]

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson
does it depend on how many rifle squads you have in the pool? How many Rifle Squads do you have in the pool?

Maybe, but i thought that rifle squads a function of arm points, and I've got tons of these.

[76mm]

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

I like your notion of an assault front.

In games with a more fluid front (I hope that covers about all other games), it might be better to equip one army per front as an assault army. I actually created the assault fronts in 1942 as my main strategic reserve, and while they were effective in that role it might have been overkill.

The main drawback to using assault fronts is that it can be difficult to pull them out of the line and send them somewhere else without losing lots of time and disrupting the front in the vacated sector.

[M60A3TTS]

You might check your refit situation and make sure units away from those divisions you create or away from the action aren't draining the pool. Why are you having trouble getting 6 artillery divisions into a battle? Is it getting them into position with sufficient MPs?

The mortars I'm talking about are going to be organic to the rifle corps, so you're not buying them. A 42d Guards Rifle Corps TO&E is supposed to have 108 guns and mortars of 120mm and 122mm caliber. You're going to have like 4 times as many of the 76mm field guns and howitzers and 82mm mortars which are also organic. So if you attack with say 6 corps, you should have like 2,400 small caliber and 600 medium pieces. Add the six artillery divisions and you should add another 1,500 of the 122mm or better. And it gets better. Breakthrough Artillery Division over 300. Heavy Rocket Brigade has 480. Rocket Launcher Division 864! Try building six of those RLDs and see how they perform.

[76mm]

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS
Is it getting them into position with sufficient MPs?

Yes, exactly. Usually I can only attack in 1-2 places on a particular turn with any chance of success, and the artdivs are somewhere else. Generally they can only move one hex and retain the ability to make a deliberate attack.

Thanks for the info re arty, very helpful. Some rocket divs are near the top of my list.

[76mm]

Turn 91 over. No big news, grinding forward, although this turn the results were slightly more favorable than usual. I meant to take some screenshots, but sent the turn back before I did so, oops!

A couple of thoughts:
1) Between Sumy and Kharkov, I am almost through his level 3-4 forts, and am generally facing level 1-2, which makes a huge difference. Even in level 2 forts he can sometimes achieve a defending CV of XX (ie, over 99), but it is much more rare.

2) Unlike previous turns, this turn most of my unsuccessful attacks (I only launch a handful of attacks) resulted in a reduction in the fort level, in two instances by two levels--this is very good!

3) According to air recon, he is building massive belts of FZ behind the lines--this is very bad! Not sure how long it will take him to build them, but these could put the game into perma-stalemate.

It is now mid-March 1943, mud will be here soon, then the summer. At that point, I am hoping to finally punch through these ridiculous forts and get some action.

[M60A3TTS]

Also keep one thing in the back of your mind, which is in November the Soviet Tank Corps starts to come into its own. T-34s go from 99 to 195. With the additional 43 Separate Tank Regiment or 42 Heavy Tank Regiments attached, they reach numerical parity with the panzer division. It could prove to be a fun toy to play with. Hopefully before then you have the Rocket Launcher or Breakthrough Artillery Divisions to try out on the weaker fort values.