Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR)

[Flaviusx]

Q-ball, I personally don't like attaching tank regiments to all my rifle corps, but this is a matter of taste. The amount of trucks involved becomes significant. A few guards rifle corps maybe, but when you're running around with 100+ rifle corps, that's a lot of trucks. Especially since this doesn't include all the regiments attached to mobile corps, which is another 60+ regiments. (2 tank regiments per cav, 1 per mech or tank.)

I rely on AT regiments for this kind of thing.

I do like them as army SUs though, 1 per army.

[Q-Ball]

I like the Heavy Tank SU's later on in late '42 to '43, as they get that guards morale boost right on creation. Takes awhile to realize all the benefits, but I think those will have a NM of 60 + 10 + 10 = 80 in mid 1944.

Fill that with Stalin tanks, and that's a pretty nasty SU.

I didn't use any AT SUs before, as I was concerned about Armament expenditure, but it looks like they are affordable, and a good "defensive" solution. At least they don't use as many Trucks.

What about the Light Assault Gun SUs? At full production, massive amounts of SU-76Ms will pile-up in the pool, way more than it looks like are needed in Corps TOE's. Are they worth building? Or just let them rot in the pool?

[Flaviusx]

I'm wary of making too many SU 76 SUs (geeze that's a redundant phrase.) They are organic to a lot of units, for starters. (Including late war guards rifle corps!) And they just add to the whole truck problem.

The heavy tank regiment idea is worth exploring for assault rifle corps. Mobile corps don't much use them, they rely primarily on medium tanks and various flavors of SUs (76, 122, 152.) So you can concentrate their production on SUs and attach them to specific shock units. (Maybe even including some mech corps.)

[Q-Ball]

We should probably start a new thread on late-war Soviet Tank Management!

SUs:

Looking at the TOE's, the Mobile units use about equal numbers of SU-76, SU-85, and SU-152. But the SU-76 has almost quadruple the production of the other two (over 120 per turn at full capacity). You are right, that Guards Rifle Corps pick up 40-ish in their TOE

So, Soviet players in late war figure to have thousands of SU-76 in the pool. Is it worth trying to use them? The combat capability is lower than other choices in that slot, and they consume trucks. So I suppose it's your last option.

They probably die in droves in combat as well, so maybe the extra production is consumed anyway just to keep pace.

Heavy Tanks:

There are NO Stalin tanks that I can see in any on-map TOEs. So they are all in Heavy Tank SUs.

After Feb 1944, peak production will ramp up to 54 in Fall of 1944. That is enough to sustain LOTS in combat.

I will probably create a bunch in late 42-43, and stash them to train-up. There figure to be plenty of KVs in the pool to get them started, while Stalin production increases. Once that happens, deploy them in numbers.

[Schmart]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

How many Tank Regiment SU's does everyone build?

I think historically, the Russians fielded a max of around 100 independent (ie: not integral to Tank/Mech/Cav Corps) Tank Regiments, plus I think 20-25 independent Heavy Tank Regiments. By late 1943, many of these were converted to SU Regiments, and by the end of the war, there weren't a whole lot of independent Tank Regiments around.

You can start building them early as Tank Battalions will upgrade to Tank Regiments in late 1942.

[terje439]

Let me throw in a Q as well;

what units can use the arty units created at HQs? I cannot seem to attach them to rifle, tank and cav corps??

(oh, and since this is a noobie AAR, feel free to post any Q as long as the experienced players feel like answering in here[:)])


Terje

[BletchleyGeek]

ORIGINAL: terje439

Let me throw in a Q as well;

what units can use the arty units created at HQs? I cannot seem to attach them to rifle, tank and cav corps??

Only HQ and Fortified Zone units, Terje.

ORIGINAL: terje439
(oh, and since this is a noobie AAR, feel free to post any Q as long as the experienced players feel like answering in here[:)])

Keep them coming

[terje439]

That forced a follow-up question [:)]
Does that mean, if I stack a HQ with some arty units, that that HQ can provide arty fire from two hexes away in a deliberate attack like normal arty?


Terje

[BletchleyGeek]

ORIGINAL: terje439
That forced a follow-up question [:)]
Does that mean, if I stack a HQ with some arty units, that that HQ can provide arty fire from two hexes away in a deliberate attack like normal arty?

No, this isn't TOAW mate [:)]

When SU's are attached to a HQ then the chance-based Support Unit commitment rules apply. You should check section 15.4.1 (page 143 on the ammended manual)

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: Bletchley_Geek

ORIGINAL: terje439
That forced a follow-up question [:)]
Does that mean, if I stack a HQ with some arty units, that that HQ can provide arty fire from two hexes away in a deliberate attack like normal arty?

No, this isn't TOAW mate [:)]

When SU's are attached to a HQ then the chance-based Support Unit commitment rules apply. You should check section 15.4.1 (page 143 on the ammended manual)

Kinda what I guessed, but wanted to be sure I did not waste alot of arty tubes here [:D]

Terje

[terje439]

Turn 98

Overall
Nothing happens, the Axis does not even try to attack Moscow in the mud. He is in no hurry, so he will wait them out. Understandable, but sadly that does not kill me any panzers... My airforce on the other hans inflict some 1500 casualties and kill no less than 14 tanks this turn, a very good result. Sadly, I on the other hand forgot my promise to the pilots this turn, about a holiday for those with low morale. Oh well, the vacations will be resumed next turn.
With no attacks, we still suffer quite a bit of casualties, with 84.000 dead soldiers this turn. On the other hand, the Axis loss of 28.000 is also pleasing.
With 180.000 fresh pair of hands to the manpower pool, it ends at 64. I guess I could be positive, and note that this means the active pool at the end of the turn have multiplied by 32 since last turn...

Units
i order the formation of 1 tank corps, 1 mech corps and 3 mech brigades. This is a "setup" I will run with for a few turns just to get some more mechanized troops on the board. I also recieved a new airfield, which when you think about it, is a good thing, since that means I also got more aerial units.
Our existing troops scored a net growth of 100.000 soldiers this turn.

Partisans
Today these guys will get their picture shown (see below). With 13 sabotague actions and 17 supply drops, this is a very good turn. Even though the Axis force 10 of our units to retreat, we still have 22 active partisans left at the end of the turn.

Operation Dutchboy
We are gathering our mobile corps' and will stack them on the railroad east of Moscow. This should be the best possition to allow them to railmove to any threathened part of the front within one turn. So far I have gathered 5 tank corps, 1 mech corps, 3 cav corps and 2 Guards Rifle corps. This number will increase as other units make their way through the mud.

Operation Popular Vote
Some more recon flights are needed next turn to see if this one comes further than the planning board

Worries
Not much at the moment, just curious when I will feal I have enough strength to go on the offence [;)]

[gingerbread]

To add to the Hv Tank SU discourse, these should do good attached to infantry corps doing river assaults since they as SU's will not be subject to disruption.

[gingerbread]

Terje, about the partisan void area: a couple of C-47 groups on a VVS-base parked on the rail line just east of the Validai Hills ought to remedy that.

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: gingerbread

Terje, about the partisan void area: a couple of C-47 groups on a VVS-base parked on the rail line just east of the Validai Hills ought to remedy that.

Good thinking, will withdraw those few C47 units I currently have from other bases and redeploy. Thanks for the tip [&o]

Terje

[terje439]

Turn 99

Overall
The mud is fading quickly, but for now the conditions are still such that the Axis chose not to attack, and nor do we. Our airforce are out making life miserable for a few German units, but that is all. Also, the pilots are actually all rather happy, and no units have a morale below 39 despite taking 10:1 in overall loss ratio each turn.
No more than 191.000 workers report to the manpower pool, and it ends at 12 this turn. I also take the time to go over my units and remove the "refit" command from any unit with TOE over 90.
Losses are once more rather light, with 29.000 Axis troops killed to our 82.000. Still, due to the low manpower, I really need to get some cities back.

Units
I combine 3 brigades into a divison, and order the construction of 3 mechanized brigades, and form 2 tank corps. We also recieve a new airfield. With low manpower, our forces record a net growth of a mere 92.000 soldiers this turn. I say mere as this is a turn with no ground fighting.

Partisans
10 Axis attacks on our partisan units means we are left with 21 active squads. These guys again perform 13 sabotague actions this turn, which is good enough for now. Our aerial friends perform outstanding and make 24 supply drops this turn. A couple of transport squadrons upgrade to C47s, and will be sent to the reserve pool next turn, and thereafter will be send to a new VVS airfield outside Moscow.

Operation Dutchboy
More and more forces are being assembled, the number is starting to look good actually.

Operation Popular vote
This is aborted as the planner had an "D'oh!" moment.

Worries
What will the spring bring?

[M60A3TTS]

I know what others have said, but I'd be wary of going gaga over tank corps. Hey, I like tanks as much as anyone, but they will continue to be relative lightweights until November when the TO&E doubles up the tank contingent. Even then their smaller infantry contingent will put them at a disadvantage against the enemy unless stacked with another unit having adequate boots on the ground. They can contribute towards local/tactical victories in conjunction with rifle corps but by themselves they will struggle to be a decisive factor. Also, you're now distancing these units from their parent HQs which will reduce their supply intake, so I wouldn't keep them clumped together long.

My advice is you can work on your mobile troops but don't stop building infantry altogether. You can take newly formed rifle units and ship them off to a quiet part of the line where the new divisions can replace the idle rifle corps. Then those same corps can be redeployed and put into the line where you want to push your opponent back or simply force him to take casualties and weaken him generally. I'd suggest you'll see better results doing that then trying to mass all these tank and mech corps at least in the coming months. Down the road, the story may change. By 1944 certainly I'd expect the Soviet mobile forces to have a heavier hand in the push west.

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

I know what others have said, but I'd be wary of going gaga over tank corps. Hey, I like tanks as much as anyone, but they will continue to be relative lightweights until November when the TO&E doubles up the tank contingent. Even then their smaller infantry contingent will put them at a disadvantage against the enemy unless stacked with another unit having adequate boots on the ground. They can contribute towards local/tactical victories in conjunction with rifle corps but by themselves they will struggle to be a decisive factor. Also, you're now distancing these units from their parent HQs which will reduce their supply intake, so I wouldn't keep them clumped together long.

My advice is you can work on your mobile troops but don't stop building infantry altogether. You can take newly formed rifle units and ship them off to a quiet part of the line where the new divisions can replace the idle rifle corps. Then those same corps can be redeployed and put into the line where you want to push your opponent back or simply force him to take casualties and weaken him generally. I'd suggest you'll see better results doing that then trying to mass all these tank and mech corps at least in the coming months. Down the road, the story may change. By 1944 certainly I'd expect the Soviet mobile forces to have a heavier hand in the push west.

Yes, the HQ factor is a concern of mine, the one thing I see as a benefit of keeping those mobile units to the rear however is that they will be able to plug any hole in the front quickly, and to the rear they will suffer less attrition than on the frontline. And ofc if I am able to open a gap, the tank corps becomes invaluable due to their ability to move through ZoC alot better than rifle units.
That being said, I am somewhat scared of the situation at present, but I think I will be untill the frontline consists of 3x3 rifle corps units....
Another thing that calls for rifle units, is ofc the vehicle pool.

Your advice is taken, and it will eventually be used, but atm I will form any excisting cav divs and tank brigades into corps,as they are useless in smaller groups.


Terje

[terje439]

Turn 100

Overall
The mud goes away, and both sides resume offensive operations. The good thing is that all our attacks are successes, while the bad news is that we lose alot of units in the Moscow pocket. The Germans do not manage to kill of the pocket this turn, it is estimated that another turn or two will be required. The Axis managed a total of 13 attacks, scoring 1 held, 4 retreats, 1 rout and 7 surrenders, while we make 4 attacks and score 4 retreats. Due to the troops lost in the pocket, loss ratio is completely in favour of the Axis this turn, with losses reported as 33.000 to 318.000.
A total of 180.000 workers report to the manpower pool this turn, and it ends at 75. At the same time, it seems my armaments pool is really reluctant to pass the 1.000.000 mark, as it ends at 994.000, which is about where it has been the last few turns.

Units
We will start with the lost in action list this turn. We lost 3 fortified areas, 2 tank corps, 1 AT artillery brigade, 1 rifle brigade, 2 artillery divisions, 7 rifle divisions and 5 rifle corps. That is alot of troops...
At the same time, 9 rifle brigades are formed into 4 rifle divisions (I ALWAYS forget that 2 is enough the first time I do this each round...), and I also order the formation of 1 mechanized corps, 1 tank corps, 1 cavalry corps and 2 rifle corps this turn. And we are also rewarded with a new airfield.
With so many units lost, the net growth of our forces are -109.000 soldiers this turn.

Partisan
We are left with 23 active units after the Axis launch 6 attacks on partisan units this turn. The remaining units perform 15 sabotague actions, and are rewarded by 22 supply drops this turn. The C47s are sent to the resrve this turn, and will be brought back in a few turns. I want to see what happens around Moscow before placing more airfields there.

Operation Dutchboy
The forces are gathering, and it is a pretty sight, their CV however, and espesially those of my tank corps, are not satisfying.

Worrries
The ease with which the German panzers can rout my rifle corps.

[TulliusDetritus]

Terje, from the screenshot the Rifle Corps only has 13.000 men. That's very few. Maybe you threw them to battle too early. A refit thing should have filled the ranks and you would have an almost-monster: 25.000-30.000 men. That or I am missing something [:)]

[terje439]

Good catch, missed that one myself. True, and also they only had a level 1 fort. And ofc there were ALOT of panzers [:)]
Still it keeps me worried

Terje