Defending Mother Russia Saper vs Harrybanana (No Saper)

[Harrybanana]

ORIGINAL: Pelton

I would station 3 of the 4 reserve armys near Moscow.

Hold the lines north to south.

GHC is building up their reserves for summer, which is a mistake. They should be hitting SHC whenever they can to thin out the fort belts.

Be ready to give ground from Tula to Rostov.

I don't think Saper has any intention of thinning my fort belt, at least not in April. T43 was clear weather in the South Soviet Zone but he did nothing, even though the Mius River was still frozen. We'll have to wait to see if a clear weather turn in May gets a different response. My guess is that it won't; well not unless 2 adjacent zones both have clear weather. I think Saper's plan is to hammer me hard when he has clear weather everywhere in an attempt to isolate a number of units all at once. In the meantime he wants me to stay where I am, nice and close to his infantry and his supply. He is afraid that if he attacks me to thin my fort line I'll spook and run all the way back to the Don and he won't be able to get the big kill. The question is: am I an idiot to oblige him?

[Harrybanana]

Oops, ignore this

[Harrybanana]

ORIGINAL: HITMAN202

Staggering your fort line a hex apart Voronzeh to Voroshilovgrad seems dangerous in that this line can be breeched entirely in one turn, with hasties only needed to break that line. This could lead to the entire isolation of the southern defense. But goodness gracious, what a fort network !!! And turns to go.

Well from a few hexes South of an imaginary line drawn Voronezh to Kursk my first line is behind a river (assuming it is unfrozen before he attacks) and after that my 3rd line is behind a river. I don't think he will be hasty attacking either of those lines. But your point is well taken, this area is the weakest link in my defences, particularly that straight line from Kursk to Voronezh where there are no rivers. However it also the least valuable terrain I have at the moment, so therefore the most weakly defended (well except for the far North against the Finns). Indeed if I followed Gingerbread's advice I think he would have me abandon this part of the line entirely.

[gingerbread]

Abandon, no - trade for time, yes.

In fact, you have been tasked to perform one of the more difficult military operations: a fighting retreat while preserving as much of the forces available as possible. Same as you did in '41, except that the Axis supply situation will be better. Fun, eh? [;)]

The Recon by force suggestion were as you might have read met with a hailstorm of objections, so it's understandable if you have refrained from doing it, but the normal recon should still be doable, are you finding anything?

[Harrybanana]

ORIGINAL: gingerbread

Abandon, no - trade for time, yes.

In fact, you have been tasked to perform one of the more difficult military operations: a fighting retreat while preserving as much of the forces available as possible. Same as you did in '41, except that the Axis supply situation will be better. Fun, eh? [;)]

The Recon by force suggestion were as you might have read met with a hailstorm of objections, so it's understandable if you have refrained from doing it, but the normal recon should still be doable, are you finding anything?

I would like to trade that particular geography for time; and wouldn't even be too upset if Saper trapped 10 or so divisions in that area. But if he traps 20+ divisions, which is my fear, than I may regret not retreating all the way back to the Don.

I read those posts about your suggestion as well. I haven't yet decided if I will do it. On the one hand I don't think Saper will care in the least. He is very clear that he doesn't believe in house rules and has not hesitated from doing things that other people (not necessarily me) might call cheese. But I'm not yet certain how I feel about it. Also how effective is it really? I haven't tried bombing at night, but I do know that day bombing will very seldom give you any information about the units you are bombing. I would have thought that night bombing would be even less helpful in that regard. How many times on average will I have to bomb the same hex to get any info about it's occupants.

As for regular air recon, it indicates that Saper is building up his forces between Orel and Stalino. In particular lots of units are concentrating around Orel, Kursk and Stalino. North of Orel very few units are being revealed by air recon. But is this because he doesn't have very many units there, or because the rougher terrain is hiding them from view, especially in mud?

I should add that, at the moment, I haven't felt any need to do too much recon (including the night bombing) because I don't believe Saper will be attacking me any time soon. We have only just completed the 2nd turn of April (which has 5 turns) and I want to conserve my recon aircraft for intensive recon on the last turn of April and then throughout May and June.

[Harrybanana]

T46 (Last turn of March 42)

I did a lot of air recon this turn and even a little bit of night bombing. It cost me 35 Recon aircraft and several bombers; so I hope it was worth it.

Below is the situation in the North. According to the recon Saper has virtually nothing here, but I don't totally believe that.

[Harrybanana]

The Moscow Area. Still not a lot showing, or is there a panzer army or two hiding in the trees?

[Harrybanana]

A lot of units, including panzers in the Bryansk/Orel/Kursk Area. And I believe there are probably more hiding in the wooded area circled in red.

[Harrybanana]

There are clusters of panzers and infantry East of Kharkov and North of Stalino as well.

[Harrybanana]

T47

Saper takes advantage of the clear weather in the Central and South Soviet Zones to attack me in the South. He breached my first two lines of defence East of Kharkov. The attacking forces there included 10 panzer/motorized units; so now I just need to figure out where the other 30 or so are. The bulge he created forced me to retreat other units south of his breakthrough. But I gamble that the weather will stay bad in the North Soviet Zone and generally hold my positions North of his breakthrough. As you can see he has a sizeable force East of Kursk, so this gamble could prove costly.

[Harrybanana]

Meanwhile in the Stalino Area he only makes one attack with an all infantry force. I must say this surprises me as I expected him to make a major push here. Perhaps my heavy line of forts here dissuaded him, too bad.

[Harrybanana]

It looks like he may be building up to attack across the kerch straits. Last turn I reconned a German mountain division and airborne division here.

[Harrybanana]

There is also a large concentration of German troops in the Bryansk Orel area.

[Harrybanana]

I'm still not sure if he will be launching an offensive West or NW of Moscow or not; but it is beginning to look less likely.

[Harrybanana]

We have now completed Turn 51 (June 4, 1942) and I am awaiting Saper's T52. We have had nothing but mud in The North Soviet Zone so no attacks there. However, we have had clear weather in the Central, South and Eurpopean Zones the last two turns.

Below is the screen shot from T50 of the situation East of Kharkov. On T51 he simply expanded a further hex East.

[Harrybanana]

Below is the situation East of Stalino. Saper continues to assault my lines here with an all infantry force and on my turn I counterattack where I can. The result is he is slowly pushing me back.

[Harrybanana]

As you can see Saper did suceesfully assault me across the Kerch Peninusula (after several softening attacks) and is slowly pushing me back here as well. But I am getting some kicks in of my own, so at least I am making him pay for this real estate. His attack is spearheaded by The DR Motorized, the 25th Motorized, the 22nd Airlanding and the 5th Mountain divisions. I have reinforced the area with 4 Cavalry Corps.

[Harrybanana]

Here is the OOB, Losses and Production information from the start of my T51. On this turn I built 6 Guards Infantry Corps. I don't plan on building too many more prior to January 43 unless circumstances are favourable.

I have changed my defensive plan once again. I am fairly confident that Saper's major offensive will be in the North Soviet Zone. Accordingly I have allocated my best units to the central part of the Map as local reserves, primarily in the Tula to Voronezh Area, and now have a very small Strategic Reserve. However, These local reserves are either on or within one hex of rail lines, so they can be moved North or South quickly if required. We'll see how this works out for me.

With resepct to support units for my Corps I have been building lots of Sapper Regiments. But can anyone tell me why these regiments are to be prefeered to the Engineer-Sapper Brigades? The brigades have more Sapper Squads so I thought would be better, but the conventional wisdom seems to be to build the regiments.

[Flaviusx]

Because engineer sapper brigades are a non combat SU. Construction only.

[M60A3TTS]

If his game with Kamil is an indicator, you can expect him to press hard across the Kerch peninsula into the Kuban. I would not hesitate to keep sending what troops you can spare down there to counter his move.