New to the game - Basic Questions

[rkr1958]

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

Definitely an auto attack then, but displaying the incorrect info is a bug.

O.K., I'll post it in the tech support then.

[paulderynck]

Sorry, I thought the weather was rain, based on the -2 weather effect. Even though I saw it was 1D10, I guess I've been playing so much 2D10 lately that the minus 2 led me astray.

Supply range in snow is 3, so the 4-3 was in supply. So not an auto attack and certainly still deserving of the post you made in Tech Support.

[rkr1958]

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

Sorry, I thought the weather was rain, based on the -2 weather effect. Even though I saw it was 1D10, I guess I've been playing so much 2D10 lately that the minus 2 led me astray.

Supply range in snow is 3, so the 4-3 was in supply. So not an auto attack and certainly still deserving of the post you made in Tech Support.

No Problem. [:)]

Thanks for all your help too! It's a big factor in me learning this game. [8D]

[rkr1958]

Do partisans do more than deny control to the other side? Can they control a hex for their side? Specifically, does the presence of the 2-3 partisan in the port of Dubrounik, Yugoslavia allow the allies to disembark a unit there or would the allies still need to invade? I think it's the later (i.e., the allies must invade), because when I toggle the control flag the German flag is shown in that hex. My question really is can the allies disembark a unit in Dubrounik?

[paulderynck]

Only a Yugoslav unit. Only units of the same nationality as a partisan may disembark there from a TRS/Amph (that they cooperate with). So that's impossible unless the partisan shows up before Yugo gets conquered, and a Yugo unit can be picked up from somewhere by a TRS/Amph belonging to its controlling major power.

In general they can also air transport in but since the ATR must be able to stack in the hex and Yugoslavia has no ATRs, that's impossible.

Usually where this rule can benefit anyone is with French and Russian partisans.

[Ur_Vile_WEdge]

Actually, I have a secondary question, when you get red partisans.

Say you have a 0 strength red partisan set up shop somewhere in India. The CW would have to invade that hex, right? But the Partisan doesn't actually control the hex, it just denies control to the CW. So there would be no notional, and no matter if I invaded with a 1 strength infantry division from the one box, it would still be automatic, right?

[Joseignacio]

ORIGINAL: Ur_Vile_WEdge

Actually, I have a secondary question, when you get red partisans.

Say you have a 0 strength red partisan set up shop somewhere in India. The CW would have to invade that hex, right? But the Partisan doesn't actually control the hex, it just denies control to the CW. So there would be no notional, and no matter if I invaded with a 1 strength infantry division from the one box, it would still be automatic, right?

11.14 Invasions

...

Each hex defends against an invasion with a notional land unit, in addition to any actual land unit in the hex. The notional unit is the same nationality as any major power or minor country with a real unit in the hex (owner’s choice if more than one). If there are no real units, it is the same nationality as the major power or minor country that controls the hex.

So the notional unit would be the same nationality as the partisan. But also...

13.1 Partisans (option 46)

...

Partisans don’t control hexes. However, they can interrupt the benefits of controlling a hex they occupy. If a partisan is in a hex:
ï enemy major powers can’t move units, factories or resources into the hex (except by overrun ~ see 11.11.6); and
ï enemy major powers can’t use any resources or factories in the hex; and
ï enemy major powers can’t trace supply into the hex; and
ï units of the partisan’s nationality (only) can debark, or paradrop, into the hex without having to fight a notional unit; and
...

So even if it was not clear, here it tells us anybody not the same nationality as the partisan has to fight the notional which is with the partisan.

[Ur_Vile_WEdge]

The thing is,

11.14 Invasions


Invasions allow land units to attack enemy held coastal hexes in a sea area you have transported them to.

And this isn't an enemy held coastal hex. It's a partisan "held" coastal hex, since partisans don't control hexes, and only disrupt some effects of the actual controller's control of the hex. Control changes as per the rule in 2.5

Control of a hex changes when:
ï an enemy land unit (except for partisans ~ see 13.1, and supply units ~ see 22.4.10) enters it (the major power entering with the most factors if more than one); or

And since partisans don't control the hex, I'm not even sure you can properly "invade" it at all. And yet it would be absurd to say you can just debark at sea to a hex where a hostile partisan is sitting. Hence my confusion.

[Courtenay]

ORIGINAL: Ur_Vile_WEdge

And since partisans don't control the hex, I'm not even sure you can properly "invade" it at all. And yet it would be absurd to say you can just debark at sea to a hex where a hostile partisan is sitting. Hence my confusion.

I am confused, both by the rule and by which side's partisan is in the hex. I will try for an exhaustive listing:

A friendly, cooperating partisan is the hex:
You may debark units in the hex, no matter which side owns the hex.

A friendly, non-cooperating partisan is in the hex:
You can not invade or debark into the hex. You can not stack with that unit. You can't move onto the hex with a non-cooperating unit from an adjacent hex, so why should you be able to invade that hex?

If you really want to invade a hex with a friendly, non-cooperating partisan, you must move the partisan out of the hex first. (The sequence of play allows you to invade the impulse you do this, as invasions happen after land movement.) If the hex is friendly owned, you can now debark into it, and if enemy owned, you may invade. This of course restores the enemy notional unit in the hex, so you will have to fight your way ashore, unless the enemy's notional's strength is reduced to zero for some reason.

An enemy partisan is in an enemy owned hex:
You can not debark into the hex, but you can invade, fighting both the notional and the partisan (and any other enemy units in the hex.)

An enemy partisan is in a friendly owned hex:
Here is where the rules are confusing. You can not debark into the hex. Logically, one should be able to invade the hex, but I can find no rule allowing you to do so. However, everyone I know of (including myself) thinks that such an invasion is legal. Here is the rule:

Invasions allow your land units to attack enemy held coastal hexes that touch upon a sea area to which you have transported the land units.
You may only invade an enemy controlled coastal hex that has at least 1 all-sea hexside (at least part, but not necessarily all, of this coastal hexside must touch upon the sea area where the TRS is located).

The key, I think, is the word "held" in the first sentence. That word is not defined in WiF. I believe, however, that everyone interprets "held" to include a hex held by an enemy partisan, even if it controlled by your side. Unfortunately, the second sentence uses the word controlled, and a rules lawyer might argue that this means you could not invade the hex. In this case, I would say that someone made a mistake, and allow the invasion. Then the question would arise: is there a notional unit?

[Ur_Vile_WEdge]

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. I did mean an enemy partisan in a friendly controlled hex, which is why I brought up the example of a CW unit facing against a red partisan in India. And that was indeed my question. If there's a partisan in a hex you (sort of) control, and you have to invade it, do they get a notional?

[rkr1958]

I'm trying to figure out how to work air transport missions. Consider the RAF DC-3. Can it load and transport by air any of the units that it's in the hex with? If so, I can't figure out how to load them. If not, I'm not sure how to properly use those unit?

[rkr1958]

I figured it out. The CW didn't have any more land moves left. That's why they couldn't load and transport any of those units. Tricky!

[rkr1958]

I thought I'd share my response to this PM.

Hi: I was wondering what your impressions of this game are? How does it compare to other WWII computer games such as War in The Pacific, or Panzer General etc? I am thinking of purchasing a new one, and just want to make sure I get the most enjoyment bang for the buck. Do you have any favorite games?

I'm really enjoying the game and I'm 100% satisfied with my purchase. With that said, MWiF (WiF) is not for the faint of heart. It has a steep learning curve compared to all the other WW2 games (computer and board) that I own and have played. For me MWiF was overwhelming at first. But, I was determined to learn and play it. I went through the tutorials (which took me about a week or so), posted questions in the forum (which I'm still doing) and played the Barbarossa and Guadalcanal scenarios. But now I'm having a blast and thoroughly enjoying myself. The bottom line for me is that this is the most rich WW2 gaming experience that I've had (am having) in my 40+ years of playing WW2 games, starting with AH's France 1940 (when I was 14) and moving onto AH's 3rd Reich, etc.

So yes, this purchase and this game is right for me. But, again, MWiF is not for the faint of heart. In my opinion, you need to be willing to invest the time to learn how to play it to get it's full value in both money and richness of the gaming experience. But, I've found that there's a very knowledgeable and dedicate community willing to help.

P.S. My favorite WW2 games are: Commander Europe at War - Grand Strategy (CEaW-GS), MWiF, Panzer Corps, Battlefield Academy and, though long in the tooth, AH's 3rd Reich (PC version) and Victory in the Pacific (VITP).

[Orm]

Well said. [:)]

I might have considered to also mention that netplay is not yet functional and that Steve is working on fixing it. And that AI is expected to be sold as an expansion, eventually.

[paulderynck]

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

I figured it out. The CW didn't have any more land moves left. That's why they couldn't load and transport any of those units. Tricky!

There's another reason. A regular ATR (the ones that cost 3 when playing with pilots) can only transport a Para Div or Corps, a Mountain Div or Corps or an Inf Div (and that doesn't mean Inf-class, non-motorized Div, it means a pure infantry division, not Eng, not Ski, not Mar, etc.)

[Courtenay]

ORIGINAL: Ur_Vile_WEdge

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. I did mean an enemy partisan in a friendly controlled hex, which is why I brought up the example of a CW unit facing against a red partisan in India. And that was indeed my question. If there's a partisan in a hex you (sort of) control, and you have to invade it, do they get a notional?

Hey, I asked the question first! I do not know the answer. I don't even know for sure that the invasion is legal. However, I really hope that it is.

Does anyone know for certain what the rule is here? Has a clarification ever been issued anywhere?

[Joseignacio]

Deleted

[Joseignacio]

ORIGINAL: Ur_Vile_WEdge

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. I did mean an enemy partisan in a friendly controlled hex, which is why I brought up the example of a CW unit facing against a red partisan in India. And that was indeed my question. If there's a partisan in a hex you (sort of) control, and you have to invade it, do they get a notional?

To be true, after posting the previous, I was about to add what follows:

It could be understood and it makes more sense, that the notional the partisan "cancels" as a result of his cancelling control of the hex, would be an enemy notional.

In fact, you cannot invade or debark it with allies or enemies, according to this:

11.13 Debarking land units
Face-up land units in a sea area (being naval transported ~ see 11.4.5) can debark into friendly controlled coastal hexes in that sea area. They can also debark into hexes occupied by a partisan unit they co-operate with.

18.1 Who can co-operate
...
14. Partisans co-operate with units from their own country only. Chinese partisans only co-operate with Chinese communist units.

11.14 Invasions
Invasions allow land units to attack enemy held coastal hexes in a sea area you have transported them to.
You may only invade an enemy controlled coastal hex that has at least 1 all-sea hexside (at least part, but not necessarily all, of this coastal hexside must touch upon the sea area where the TRS is located).

[Joseignacio]

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

I figured it out. The CW didn't have any more land moves left. That's why they couldn't load and transport any of those units. Tricky!

Anyway you wouldn't have been able. Each air transport can only carry one inf div OR one PARA or MONT corps or (2)divs.

Unless is a special one with a "infantry corps mark" drawn on it.

[rkr1958]

In naval combat, is any advantage in search given to the side that initiates it?