FITE v.5.0 Ian Soviets larry Axis

[MikeJ19]

Very interesting stuff guys! Thanks for sharing

[larryfulkerson]

It's 16:43 local and I'm working on my FITE moves and I've decided to fight back somewhat. I don't want to lose a lot of people but I'm wondering if I can push all that stuff near Kiev back to the east side of the river. Probably not because of the presence of the tanks and artillery galore behind the lines. The Soviets are known for their arty. They have lots of big guns and Ian knows how to use them. Maybe I should just try to hold what I've got, and get started on an MLR somewhere to the west.

[larryfulkerson]

ORIGINAL: MikeJ19
Very interesting stuff guys! Thanks for sharing

HI there MikeJ19 dude. Thanks for posting every once in a while...it's keeps me going. I'm trying to keep you guys in the loop as to what's going on.

Odessa must have a supply point or something because I've been bombarding it since way before the winter season started and the Soviets are holding out even now. I'm thinking that I'm probably going to have to give up that territory in the very near future and therefore it's probably not productive to try to take Odessa now. Losses would be too high to have to give it up again. So I'm thinking I can babysit them and keep bombarding for whatever Soviet losses it might cause and use the excess troops elsewhere.

Ian has railed in a lot of troops to the Leningrad area and now I'm facing these huge stacks of Soviet units and it's impossible to make any progress against them. So Ian and I have been having gun duels and I'm losing. 2/3 of my arty is down for maint. because of all the lack of tubes now. Pretty soon my arty will be useless.

Almost as useless as my air force now. It cost a lot but Ian now has air superiority and even my escorted strikes are seeing bombers falling out of the sky. It's too dangerous to try INT far to the east. I've got everybody on CS except the fighters which are on AS. And I'm learning to park the bombers far away from the fighting. Ian has no qualms about doing airfield strikes. It's expensive for him but there's no recovery for my side because I'm outnumbered in the air now and he's building fighters faster than I am. I'm thinking of parking the bombers in Germany for a while to let them refit.

My RR engineers have repaired all the rail they can reach and all the rails are up to the front lines except in the south I believe. So the supply levels are great. I think I might be able to defend this for a while at least. Ian tells me he's waiting for the spring cease fire to end before he's going to get frisky.

[MikeJ19]

Larry,

Losing your artillery and air force is a real disadvantage for you. Those combat multipliers are very important in the ground battles. Not sure how you can change the situation, unless you can find a way to breakthrough his line and start taking out his artillery with your tanks.

Spring cease fire? Say what?

[SMK-at-work]

Looking at 4.0 now after a couple of years away - I must say i'm struck by the similarity between this and my last FITE game with 3.0 - the Axis player has to be INSANELY aggressive in the first 10-20 turns, or else the Soviets get to build reasonable defensive lines fairly early, and then it can all be pretty much over by summer 1942.

Larry looks like he did a nice attack - but was only seriously aggressive early in - not INSANELY aggressive!

[larryfulkerson]

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work

Looking at 4.0 now after a couple of years away - I must say i'm struck by the similarity between this and my last FITE game with 3.0 - the Axis player has to be INSANELY aggressive in the first 10-20 turns, or else the Soviets get to build reasonable defensive lines fairly early, and then it can all be pretty much over by summer 1942.

Larry looks like he did a nice attack - but was only seriously aggressive early in - not INSANELY aggressive!

You hit it spot on. Plus, I'm observing the yellow green red rule reguarding my use of the units. Green can move and shoot and the yellow ones can move but not shoot and red ones can't shoot and have to move to a better supply spot if they move at all. It makes for a more interesting game but both sides have to observe it or else not much balance goes on.

[larryfulkerson]

I've figured out that I'm going to be defending for the rest of the game and Ian isn't attacking right now so we're doing gun duels back and forth and my arty units are losing tubes at a prodidous rate. Some of them aren't combat worthy now and I've got them chasing partisans instead of protecting the front lines. I've got between now and the end of the spring cease fire for them to refit. I've taken them out of service and parked them in Berlin so maybe the OKH can encourage them.

The Finns in the north are in serious trouble and I'm thinking of giving up the line near Leningrad and form an MLR around Helsinki.

The only good thing about retreating now is that I'll be retreating into good supply and Ian will have to build rails constantly. I'm not sure but I think the Soviets are hampered in the RR engineer department. I could be wrong.

[devoncop]

Soviet Turn 75. March 1942

Larry engages in psychological warfare by pointing out in his message to me that "time is on my side". Unfortunately....he is right [:)]

In this spirit despite the shock disadvantage and because the Soviet manpower situation is healthy I decide to order a major attack on a crossing over the Ingolets River south east of Nickolaev in the southern Crimea. Armour, air and infantry Divisions are thrown against the German 75th Infantry and a mountain Brigade of the 3rd Romanian Army dug in on the west bank. Although I was aware there was some artillery support what I had not reckoned on or been able to see were units from the 239th and 24th German Infantry Divisions ready to move up in support. This duly happened and in the ensuing two rounds of carnage both sides lost over 20% casualties in each round but the crossing just held.

In the North more Finns are despatched and the 6th German Geb and and SS mountain Division are now fully surrounded. Artillery is now finally arriving to finish off the pocketed troops.

What is noticeable is the Soviet air assets are now getting degraded through overuse so I will need to call a halt to some bombing activities and the upcoming ceasefire will be invaluable. in contrast Soviet fighters are both plentiful and in excellent health.

Note to Larry.....You are correct....Odessa is indeed a supply source[:)]

The situation along the Denepr remains stable though German artillery is formidable (despite what Larry claims!)

[larryfulkerson]

I've started putting together a strategic reserve and the 206th Inf Div is the first member. I stripped them from the front lines in a healthy spot and railed them to Minsk about the middle area, easy to find on the map. They are embarked right now because I just now railed them there but I'm wondering if I should leave them embarked permanently. On the other hand they lose a tiny bit of readiness each turn by being embarked so I'll move 'em off the train next turn. Ian tried some attacks in his turn but they didn't go anywhere because of my arty I think.

[larryfulkerson]

Here's what's going on north of Leningrad. The Soviets have gotten units behind the Finnish lines and are surrounding them so it's just a matter of time until they are dead. That means that the line near Leningrad will have to displace to protect Helsinki. Right now the way is open and there's nothing stopping the Soviets from moving through there all the way to Helsinki.

[larryfulkerson]

Here's the front lines as of T76 which is March 11, 1942. I'm chasing down partisans in the back field. There's three of them in this image near Pskov.

Ian has made a massive bulge at Kiev and I've scrapped together an ad hoc group to contain them. Now I'm wondering what to do next. I haven't the strength to straighten out the front lines again so I'm wondering if I should pull the lines back to the next river to the west. I would lose a lot of people doing that. I don't have many throw-away units left to spend.

The units that respawn appear at Berlin and several have been reborn. I recconize some of them from the southern front. They are red in supply and have some missing equipment so they will need some rest and refit before I can use them again. There'sw quite a crowd around Berlin right now. I'm not sure but I think Ian's Il-4's can reach Berlin. That's all I need right now: Ian dropping bridges around Berlin.

[devoncop]

Soviet Turn 76....11th March 1942

German armour and infantry supported by bombers launch a significant attack on the western end of the Kiev salient. Elements of 1st, 5th and 10th Panzer Division and the 197th Infantry Division comprising in total over 700 Heavy Rifle Squads, 175 tanks and 150 aircraft hit positions held by units of 26th Tank Corps, 54th Army and a brigade from 2nd Guards Tank Corps and forced them to retreat but we're unable to occupy the ground which the Soviets have now retaken. Losses were 80 Soviet HRS and nearly 100 of their interior tanks to 70 German HRS and 16 tanks and 45 aircraft.

Reinforcements are railed into the salient in case the offensive continues.

During the Soviet Turn two of the pockets of Finnish troops were reduced and a German Infantry Regiment also eliminated. Infiltrating Cavalry have managed to reach the gates of Petsamo held by two German HQ's and this threatens the entire German force facing Soviet lines just West of Murmansk with also being cut off.

There were several bridges blown on the Bug River in the South but overall artillery and bomber activity was minimal as they were largely repositioned and rested.

I have decided that following the upcoming ceasefire Soviet strategy needs to change. Up until now there has been a need to form and reinforce defensive lines and only limited probing attacks along the line other than in Finland where a combination of overwhelming force thanks to troops being diverted there in significant numbers and open geography has allowed much more success.

Probing all the way along the line has been All well and good but it has meant Soviet artillery has not been concentrated enough to cause really significant damage to German lines.

I will need to redeploy the artillery resources ready for a grand offensive with the aim of smashing open the German Front once a shock advantage returns...now to decide on the sector.....

[SMK-at-work]

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

...... I'm not sure but I think Ian's Il-4's can reach Berlin. That's all I need right now: Ian dropping bridges around Berlin.

One of the old house rules from FITE was no bombing bridges after German initial shock wears off - u not playing that??

[devoncop]

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

...... I'm not sure but I think Ian's Il-4's can reach Berlin. That's all I need right now: Ian dropping bridges around Berlin.

One of the old house rules from FITE was no bombing bridges after German initial shock wears off - u not playing that??

Hi

Was that for both sides ? What was the logic in that ? I am not a huge fan of house rules but tend to go with the scenario designers suggestions which we are doing in this game. BTW there is no chance I will be sending IL-4's unescorted to drop bridges anywhere near Berlin. They would get massacred😱

That comment was in what I call the "classic Larry disinformation category " to get me to do something dumb[:D]

He is like a cunning card sharp...you have to watch him [:D]

All the best

Ian

[SMK-at-work]

Yes it was for both sides - the idea begin that it was simply something that neither side did much of after the first few days of the war. Also it screws up the game too much!

Probably the only well known case where it was tried is the soviets against some Romanian bridges with TB-3/I-16 Zveno composites

[devoncop]

Thanks SMK.

Having read about the extent of partisan operations in the Soviet Union (particularly after early 1942 when they were properly organised by STAVKA) I think stopping bridge blowing by Soviet bombers would not really be justified given how few partisans are spawned. I have dropped maybe 4 bridges with partisans since the start as they are jumped on by the Germans on arrival.

As an example Operation "Rails War" in 1943 utilised over 100,000 partisans and destroyed around 230,000 rails, many bridges and trains and severely disrupted German supplies for the Battle of Kursk. The game cannot model this (nor should it in my view as having 20 or so small partisan units spawning would make the German task tedious and frustrating) so the bridge blowing dynamic by bombers helps abstract the correct effect.

It should be remembered as well that the numbers of bridges and crossings are huge so disruption is never more that minimal and temporary even if two or three bridges are dropped close by.

It's an interesting one though and I may well be in the minority with this view so thanks for raising it.👍

[devoncop]

Soviet Turn 77...15th March 1942

More bombardments from the Germans and a minor probing attack over the middle Dnepr but intelligence did report a stripping of the lines on the Finnish/Soviet border north of Leningrad as the progress of the Soviet advance in north Eastern Finland appears to have got the Finns worried about being caught in another pocket. The Soviet 7th Army supported by 21st Tank Division and Fixed Heavy Artillery from Leningrad itself succeeds in breaking therough the immediate rearguard of the dug in Finnish 12th infantry Division but it took the whole turn so it remains to be seen if the Finns decide to counter attack or continue their retreat north.

Further to the east the Finnish 15th Infantry Division which had been surrounded on the more eastern Finnish/Soviet Border was repeatedly attacked and is now concentrated in a single 10Km area just east of Lodeinoye Pole.

Soviet artillery is now in the process of redeploying (as per the post ceasefire planned offensive) in the main so the Soviet turn was short though another entire unit of JU87's was wiped out on its airfield west of Kiev.

[larryfulkerson]

Ian is breaking through the Finn front line above Leningrad. Now all the Finn troops are going to have to displace toward Helsinki to plug up the bottlnecks on the roads and rails. Given the sizes of the opposing sides I'd say it's just a matter of time until the Soviets own Helsinki.

[devoncop]

I got a diplo message from Larry querying whether I was happy with not doing more attacking given I need to get to Berlin to win so I thought I would include my email reply to him in case anyone else thinks the same. Bear in mind I have never played this scenario before and Larry has so he is much more likely to understand the timings than I am but with that proviso here is my reply with my thinking going forwards.......hope it makes at least a bit of sense [:)]

Hi Larry

Thanks for the detailed diplomatic message ....always good to hear your thoughts !

As for your question.....I am gauging my progress versus history so given in August 43 (over a year ahead of where we are) the Germans were fighting around Kharkov and Kursk and were only just being booted out of the Caucasus I am ok with being relatively cautious for now on the main front.

I have hopes a more effective offensive can be launched in 1943 when the shock values move in the Soviets favour as the Soviets still have shock disadvantages v the Germans in 42 so attacks will be more expensive now.

Having said that I am planning something after the next ceasefire in 3 or 4 turns as launching anything now would be pointless as I wouldn't have time to exploit it and also maybe during the next Soviet Winter when hopefully the effects will be even better.

There may also be opportunities to make more of the Finnish situation this year and the decision to build up a Soviet Fleet which is due on stream early 43 will help this.

Hope all this makes sense but I do know there is a LONG way to get to Berlin

All the best

Ian

[devoncop]

Soviet Turn 78........18th March 1942

I open the turn to find with some consternation that there has been a German breakthrough on the eastern perimeter of the Odessa defences thanks to a huge concentration of Italian and German artillery and good quality German troops.
I also find that the Finns have indeed retreated from the defence lines north of Leningrad in a complete withdrawal so Soviet troops move north taking Terijoki and close in on Ayrapaa.

In Finland sustained attacks against two pockets see the near total destruction of both the 14th and 15th Finnish Divisions and that should be completed next turn.

Not withstanding the email above I do launch attacks just east of Chernovo on the Luga River south of Narva and manage to force a break in the German line which can possibly be exploited though this section of line does have a significant SS presence so reserves may well arrive.

Another assault was made on German lines north of Smolensk but although losses were heavy on both sides the line again held.

In an attempt to protect the Odessa garrison substantial air assaults were made against the concentrations of Romanian, Italian and German artillery outside the perimeter and very heavy losses were inflicted in guns on the Italians and Romanians in particular. Several Divisions were successfully shipped into the perimeter from Sevastapol to bolster the defences.