Trying to take Java at this stage sounds like a huge boondoggle. First of all, you'll have to take Timor and everything else along the way, or he'll just park a bunch of Kates and Vals there and cut off supply. Even if you do hold these islands, once the KB returns from India, he's going to make your life an absolute hell. Trying to operate heavy bombers from Java will only exacerbate supply problems.
Rabaul, it's true, has fewer immediate benefits, but capturing it now removes an entire layer from his defense in 1943. In VP terms, it's less valuable, but you're likely to lose less shipping and sink more of his if he tries to mount a serious defense against all of your CVs. You might also overpower a significant number of LCUs.
Sand in the Vaseline - Wobbly vs PzB
Moderators: wdolson, Don Bowen, mogami
RE: Naval battle at karachi
If you think you can hold Karachi/Bombay I'd say go after Rabaul. If he doesn't come out and put up a fight for it, what's to stop you from using it as a stepping stone to bigger and better things in the central pacific?
If you feel your Indian position is in danger, you may need to go after Java if nothing else as a diversion. From what he has thrown at you in India, I'd be surprised if he could mount much in the way of immediate resistance; however, in the mid-term (6 months) I think you would be unable to hold onto Java and exploit it. I'd say it's a question of weighing what you might lose if Karachi/Bombay falls vs what you might lose if you throw all that into Java and can't support it or get it back out again.
If you feel your Indian position is in danger, you may need to go after Java if nothing else as a diversion. From what he has thrown at you in India, I'd be surprised if he could mount much in the way of immediate resistance; however, in the mid-term (6 months) I think you would be unable to hold onto Java and exploit it. I'd say it's a question of weighing what you might lose if Karachi/Bombay falls vs what you might lose if you throw all that into Java and can't support it or get it back out again.
Fear the kitten!
RE: Naval battle at karachi
ORIGINAL: roberto5352
Trying to take Java at this stage sounds like a huge boondoggle. First of all, you'll have to take Timor and everything else along the way, or he'll just park a bunch of Kates and Vals there and cut off supply. Even if you do hold these islands, once the KB returns from India, he's going to make your life an absolute hell. Trying to operate heavy bombers from Java will only exacerbate supply problems.
Rabaul, it's true, has fewer immediate benefits, but capturing it now removes an entire layer from his defense in 1943. In VP terms, it's less valuable, but you're likely to lose less shipping and sink more of his if he tries to mount a serious defense against all of your CVs. You might also overpower a significant number of LCUs.
First, he doesn't have to resupply them from the east, he can easily do it from the south, and only KB can intercept from there.
Second, Rabaul is by now a huge fortress i'm sure. The first turn he detects your huge fleet advancing he is going to transfer hundreds of planes to rabaul itself and the airfields around it (Kavieng, Adm. Islands, Shortlands etc.) which is going to make your life difficult and he may even sink a carrier or two.
Third, he doesn't expect an invasion of Java and even if he does he doesn't have any real land forces there. In almost all of the japanese AAR's ive read the player doesn't concern himself much with the defence of western SRA. Timor and Philippines maybe, but not Java or Sumatra.
Fourth, if you take rabaul you are bound to suffer some loss in shipping (maybe even a carrier or two) and that means points to him. You won't get a lot for Rabaul and if he takes India then the game is lost. Hitting Java will catch him out of position (hopefully) and force him to commit forces from India or suffer consequences.
Fifth, transferring land based aircraft to Java is quite easy. Most bombers can make it from northwestern australia and iirc even some fighters like P40B. By now you should also have quite a large number of marine squadrons which can be transferred by ease with only one carrier sitting halfway between java and australia. Planes that have been transferred on ships can be transferred off to bases on the same turn.
There is one danger in this plan. How to get your forces from rabaul to java undetected?
If he sees you coming long before you land then its useless.
Surface combat TF fanboy
RE: Naval battle at karachi
Gentlemen of the Admiralty. As expected some excellent thoughts for and against. Thank you
My reason for attacking Rabaul was because I thought I could pull it off since the KB is supporting India. Well as in all real wars that plan is no longer a viable option as it will cost me heavily for little real gain. He CAN afford to let me take it and start to reinforce bases further north. What changed this is his continued exceptional progress in India. An attack in Java might just carry enough weight to make him start to require some of the units there back in Java. I truly believe it will be short of defensive units.
I am short of time so I wont respond to each writer individually but touch upon some of the points bought up.
Yes aviation units are in the invasion force previously aimed at Rabaul. I also have Dutch units in Darwin that can be used for the invasion of Timor (I think). Heavy ACs in Northern Oz can't reach much other than Kendari, Amboina and Sorong. There will be a period where the only aircraft able to help in Java will be Naval aircraft. However the same can be said of the invasion of Tarawa - the difference of course is the number of airfields he can use while I disembark.
Andy - as always the voice of reason. The truth is mate I don't have the time to plan this to perfection. Far more planning went into hitting Rabaul but he can take the loss of Rabaul without worrying about it too much - I needed another target - one that really does threaten, and I need to attack it very soon. Without such an attack he may get the 4-1 he needs for auto-victory. He can also reinforce the attacks on India with abandon, I have to curb that, even if it is only to reduce the amount of time it takes for him to attack. Truthfully I am very worried about the BBs and their bombardments of Karachi - they will be devastating. If he draws them off to repel invaders in Java then I have succeeded to an extent.
At present the likely locations of landing will be the 1,1 base in the North (by Batavia) and straight into Tilitjap - for its port. The other option is the little base down by Soerbaja. Either way I have to land in more than one location to look to secure most of the counterattack locations before he can really muster his response.
Getting the invasion forces there? Well there is only one way, through the straits by New Guinea and Australia. Up past Timor and into Java. Any recon he gets may be misconstrued as reinforcement for India - although he is very good at ascertaining my intentions. The likely locations for him scouting me are Lae and the Timor base. I will hammer both of them. Hitting Lae will actually reinforce his thought of attacks on Rabaul or Shortlands. I have already hit the base in Timor and he will have realised this is to try and stop reconning of shiping heading to India - who am I to stop these thoughts?
As I see it gentlemen, the crux of this attack will be speed and then the counter attack from the KB. If he hits me with his land based planes I will have many injured ships trying to get back to ports in Oz. They will all be very vulnerable to the KB in doing so. If he hits my carriers and wins a decisive victory then I can probably kiss goodbye to many of the ships in the invasion force as well. If I do manage to suppress many of the locations on Java quickly - and get a large enough airfield to take the heavy bombers, then I can quickly deny him close range retaliation. At present I have chiefly the 4 Divisions, 2 RCTs and 2 Tank Brigades to assault with. I can see him having the same problem I had with defense: getting units in large enough numbers to the front - without opening the rear to para invasion (the marine Paras are in the invasion forces). I also believe he has used many of the engineering units he has, which are quite inferior to mine, to continue his attacks. They therefore have not been building forts in Java - the only things that has remotely allowed me to restrict his juggernaut in India. I think 4 Divisions (+ not inconsiderable sundries) will create a juggernaut of their own against the numbers I expect him to have with little to no fortifications. Included in this is the possibility of 2 North Australian Divisions to bolster my hold (they will have to be loaded in a much later reinforcement on ships surviving the initial invasion). There are a few issues with lack of fighter planes again. Many are in or on their way to India. I will have to strip Oz further and at present this will only be P-40s, P-39s and Wildcats; hardly awe inspiring.
4 Divisions, safely in Java will take some removing though, and he may have to abandon India to do it, and that, in the end my learned friends, is the whole point!
My reason for attacking Rabaul was because I thought I could pull it off since the KB is supporting India. Well as in all real wars that plan is no longer a viable option as it will cost me heavily for little real gain. He CAN afford to let me take it and start to reinforce bases further north. What changed this is his continued exceptional progress in India. An attack in Java might just carry enough weight to make him start to require some of the units there back in Java. I truly believe it will be short of defensive units.
I am short of time so I wont respond to each writer individually but touch upon some of the points bought up.
Yes aviation units are in the invasion force previously aimed at Rabaul. I also have Dutch units in Darwin that can be used for the invasion of Timor (I think). Heavy ACs in Northern Oz can't reach much other than Kendari, Amboina and Sorong. There will be a period where the only aircraft able to help in Java will be Naval aircraft. However the same can be said of the invasion of Tarawa - the difference of course is the number of airfields he can use while I disembark.
Andy - as always the voice of reason. The truth is mate I don't have the time to plan this to perfection. Far more planning went into hitting Rabaul but he can take the loss of Rabaul without worrying about it too much - I needed another target - one that really does threaten, and I need to attack it very soon. Without such an attack he may get the 4-1 he needs for auto-victory. He can also reinforce the attacks on India with abandon, I have to curb that, even if it is only to reduce the amount of time it takes for him to attack. Truthfully I am very worried about the BBs and their bombardments of Karachi - they will be devastating. If he draws them off to repel invaders in Java then I have succeeded to an extent.
At present the likely locations of landing will be the 1,1 base in the North (by Batavia) and straight into Tilitjap - for its port. The other option is the little base down by Soerbaja. Either way I have to land in more than one location to look to secure most of the counterattack locations before he can really muster his response.
Getting the invasion forces there? Well there is only one way, through the straits by New Guinea and Australia. Up past Timor and into Java. Any recon he gets may be misconstrued as reinforcement for India - although he is very good at ascertaining my intentions. The likely locations for him scouting me are Lae and the Timor base. I will hammer both of them. Hitting Lae will actually reinforce his thought of attacks on Rabaul or Shortlands. I have already hit the base in Timor and he will have realised this is to try and stop reconning of shiping heading to India - who am I to stop these thoughts?
As I see it gentlemen, the crux of this attack will be speed and then the counter attack from the KB. If he hits me with his land based planes I will have many injured ships trying to get back to ports in Oz. They will all be very vulnerable to the KB in doing so. If he hits my carriers and wins a decisive victory then I can probably kiss goodbye to many of the ships in the invasion force as well. If I do manage to suppress many of the locations on Java quickly - and get a large enough airfield to take the heavy bombers, then I can quickly deny him close range retaliation. At present I have chiefly the 4 Divisions, 2 RCTs and 2 Tank Brigades to assault with. I can see him having the same problem I had with defense: getting units in large enough numbers to the front - without opening the rear to para invasion (the marine Paras are in the invasion forces). I also believe he has used many of the engineering units he has, which are quite inferior to mine, to continue his attacks. They therefore have not been building forts in Java - the only things that has remotely allowed me to restrict his juggernaut in India. I think 4 Divisions (+ not inconsiderable sundries) will create a juggernaut of their own against the numbers I expect him to have with little to no fortifications. Included in this is the possibility of 2 North Australian Divisions to bolster my hold (they will have to be loaded in a much later reinforcement on ships surviving the initial invasion). There are a few issues with lack of fighter planes again. Many are in or on their way to India. I will have to strip Oz further and at present this will only be P-40s, P-39s and Wildcats; hardly awe inspiring.
4 Divisions, safely in Java will take some removing though, and he may have to abandon India to do it, and that, in the end my learned friends, is the whole point!
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RE: Naval battle at karachi
Iirc there is one base on Java that is not a coastal hex, now if you could get that operational then your airforces would be safe from his battleships atleast. This way you might actually be able to keep air superiority over Java for some time
edit: Oh and by making to java i meant transferring the bombers. I know none of the current ones have range to hit it from australia.
It is my opinion that he has very little garrison at java, maybe only a brigade, maybe a regiment.. and base forces.. I'd be surprised if you found a whole division there. And even if you did they could be routed easily
edit: Oh and by making to java i meant transferring the bombers. I know none of the current ones have range to hit it from australia.
It is my opinion that he has very little garrison at java, maybe only a brigade, maybe a regiment.. and base forces.. I'd be surprised if you found a whole division there. And even if you did they could be routed easily
Surface combat TF fanboy
RE: Naval battle at karachi
Interesting thoughts about Java, indeed. If I got this right PzB has offered you to continue the game even if he gets autovictory? Problem is that even if you pound the evil empire to the stoneage he will still have won a moral victory like" yeah, you beat me up bu I actually had an autovictory". My question is if it will be enough to avoud autovictory if you had a major naval battle where the Jap loses more than you? If so you could wait until late 42 when the odds are more favorable for a carrier battle. If he avoids battle just to get autovictory he loses the moral victory argument, as I see it.
RE: Naval battle at karachi
String - yeah I think it is Badeoing (or something - man memory is a fleeting thing) - just below Batavia. I would want to take out Batavia anyway as it would be a nasty location right on the dorstep, but for continued control of Java that location is imperitive. I agree about the level of defense he will have there. That is why I am thinking of two landings. However, I will only have my carriers initially to cover the two landing locations with. I am thinking of utilising the extra sqd location (that any carrier can use : up to 5) on each of the fleet carriers, then fighters can be based straight on Java in fighting order!
Yes PzB has offered to continue the fight from then on but as you say it will be a bit of a hollow fight, more an experimentation than anything else. In truth, If I loose India - including all bases - I wont be over the 4-1 level. It will be the loss of the units and the men surrendering that will do that. HOwever, if he does disregard Java an continue with attacks at full speed against India, then I will also now have Java as a base to start attacking the interests in India. I might look to counter attack in the South of India for instance. Truthfully I can't see him completely brushing it aside. In India proper it is about to turn into June, which means I start to get spitfires. With the inclusion of the wildcats and another 12 size P-40 sqd, and as long as I try to hold inland (away from the BBs), then his ability to supress my ground units with bombers will start to get very costly. At present I have earmarked an inland base, just south of Karachi, as the last stand for my ground units rather than Karachi itself. If I can time it such that the Java invasion occurs before he lands then he will be tempted to forego that part of it... or maybe I am in dreamland.
Bottom line though STRV103C, if I could have any surety that I could loose India and still be below the 3-1 autovictory, then I would not be invading Java!
Another question, does anyone know whether the game is over if he gets 4-1 after 1/1/43?
Yes PzB has offered to continue the fight from then on but as you say it will be a bit of a hollow fight, more an experimentation than anything else. In truth, If I loose India - including all bases - I wont be over the 4-1 level. It will be the loss of the units and the men surrendering that will do that. HOwever, if he does disregard Java an continue with attacks at full speed against India, then I will also now have Java as a base to start attacking the interests in India. I might look to counter attack in the South of India for instance. Truthfully I can't see him completely brushing it aside. In India proper it is about to turn into June, which means I start to get spitfires. With the inclusion of the wildcats and another 12 size P-40 sqd, and as long as I try to hold inland (away from the BBs), then his ability to supress my ground units with bombers will start to get very costly. At present I have earmarked an inland base, just south of Karachi, as the last stand for my ground units rather than Karachi itself. If I can time it such that the Java invasion occurs before he lands then he will be tempted to forego that part of it... or maybe I am in dreamland.
Bottom line though STRV103C, if I could have any surety that I could loose India and still be below the 3-1 autovictory, then I would not be invading Java!
Another question, does anyone know whether the game is over if he gets 4-1 after 1/1/43?
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RE: Naval battle at karachi
Well, i might have been unclear in my question. If you lose India and he gets well over 4-1 I'm wondering how much Jap fleet you must sink to avoid autovictory? (Don't know if it is all possible to calculate this though) Anyway, if you lose India it is probably too much points lost to avoid autovictory even if you sink the whole KB.
So Java invasion might be worth the risk. I just can't see it go unnoticed when you pass Timor which means that there probably will be Netties and Zeroes waiting. They can take a good toll of your Wildcat airgroups and if KB shows up before they are replenished you could be in big trouble. Now, the distance between Karachi and Tjilitap is about 60 hexes so if he commits the KB against your invasion you will have about 10 turns before it shows up (if KB is around Karachi). If he detects your force when they are around Darwin and commits the KB direct, it may well be in place when you invade. This is the biggest risk as I see it but the alternative is going round Oz which will take too long.
How do you supply that inland base once Karachi is occupied?
So Java invasion might be worth the risk. I just can't see it go unnoticed when you pass Timor which means that there probably will be Netties and Zeroes waiting. They can take a good toll of your Wildcat airgroups and if KB shows up before they are replenished you could be in big trouble. Now, the distance between Karachi and Tjilitap is about 60 hexes so if he commits the KB against your invasion you will have about 10 turns before it shows up (if KB is around Karachi). If he detects your force when they are around Darwin and commits the KB direct, it may well be in place when you invade. This is the biggest risk as I see it but the alternative is going round Oz which will take too long.
How do you supply that inland base once Karachi is occupied?
RE: Naval battle at karachi
Can we have a screenshot of China? Are the Chinese in a postion for a limited offensive?
RE: Naval battle at karachi
Java ! Brilliant Idea, tell me do you have enough time to steam under Oz and then pop up on the west coast via Perth? This would keep your TF well hidden.
How are your PPs? Do you have enough to start stripping NZ and Oz to support your Java thrust?
How are your PPs? Do you have enough to start stripping NZ and Oz to support your Java thrust?
Never argue with an idiot, he will only drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
RE: Naval battle at karachi
ORIGINAL: Raverdave
Java ! Brilliant Idea, tell me do you have enough time to steam under Oz and then pop up on the west coast via Perth? This would keep your TF well hidden.
How are your PPs? Do you have enough to start stripping NZ and Oz to support your Java thrust?
sadly i doubt there is time for that given the very dire situation in india..
Surface combat TF fanboy
RE: Naval battle at karachi
I regret to sound pessimistic about the plans to attack java but it seems to me that this would be a great way for the allies to hand their head on a platter to the japanese. I will try to explain my reasoning.
Allies have no intermediate bases between australia and java so they cannot support their forces by land-based air. Only allied aircover comes from 5 carriers with say 130 fighters. Japanese have numerous large airbases they can use with hundreds of trained zeroes+betties - result loss of usa carriers and isolation of the landing force. The only way to prevent this is bombing the japanese airfields - which is impossible from australia.
Also note that java is close to singapore his main overseas base - it will be easy for him to move surface ships + carriers back to oppose you and still keep attacking in india. The most likely outcome is you land some troops - your carriers are sunk/disabled and then you have several divisions stuck in java with no supply and no hope.
Sorry to be so negative but I strongly believe that you need either land-based aircover or a massive air/sea superiority to succeed - neither condition applies in this case.
Ok I am british which makes me a cautious type - what would I do? The indian invasion relies on supply by sea - there is no land connection to the forces in burma. Stop the sea supply stops the invasion - I hope! The only way to do this is send the carriers and a large bb surface forces to india/ceylon. Try to surprise his naval forces and sink some carriers. Use the bb forces to hold karachi and the carriers to raid shipping in the bay of bengal. The land based air in india attacks the jap airbases to keep betty away. You are lucky that columbo is still a base for your forces. Ok you are short of safe bases for the fleet but no plan is perfect ! If I were japanese my greatest fear would be usa carriers in india - imagine getting 12 odd divisions isolated in india with no supply !
So here am I the lone voice against the java plan - madness or brilliance - let me know !
Allies have no intermediate bases between australia and java so they cannot support their forces by land-based air. Only allied aircover comes from 5 carriers with say 130 fighters. Japanese have numerous large airbases they can use with hundreds of trained zeroes+betties - result loss of usa carriers and isolation of the landing force. The only way to prevent this is bombing the japanese airfields - which is impossible from australia.
Also note that java is close to singapore his main overseas base - it will be easy for him to move surface ships + carriers back to oppose you and still keep attacking in india. The most likely outcome is you land some troops - your carriers are sunk/disabled and then you have several divisions stuck in java with no supply and no hope.
Sorry to be so negative but I strongly believe that you need either land-based aircover or a massive air/sea superiority to succeed - neither condition applies in this case.
Ok I am british which makes me a cautious type - what would I do? The indian invasion relies on supply by sea - there is no land connection to the forces in burma. Stop the sea supply stops the invasion - I hope! The only way to do this is send the carriers and a large bb surface forces to india/ceylon. Try to surprise his naval forces and sink some carriers. Use the bb forces to hold karachi and the carriers to raid shipping in the bay of bengal. The land based air in india attacks the jap airbases to keep betty away. You are lucky that columbo is still a base for your forces. Ok you are short of safe bases for the fleet but no plan is perfect ! If I were japanese my greatest fear would be usa carriers in india - imagine getting 12 odd divisions isolated in india with no supply !
So here am I the lone voice against the java plan - madness or brilliance - let me know !
RE: Naval battle at karachi
ORIGINAL: asdicus
*snip*
I am quite positive that most of those "hundreds of trained zeroes and betties" are in south pacific and marshall islands. It will take a few turns to transfer them and by then they will be very high on fatigue and have taken numerous oplosses on the way. wobbly only needs one base on java and he can place fighters there. Fighters can be transferred easily with just one carrier acting as a platform in between java and oz. IIRC even non carrier capable fighters can be transferred onto a carrier and off them? Even if it isn't so he should have a wildcat group or two to take off immediate pressure.
*chants* Attack Java!!! Attack java!!! Attack Java!!! *chants*
Surface combat TF fanboy
RE: Naval battle at karachi
String - yes the zero+betty force will be spread out over the empire but they have such long range it will take only a few days to move them all back. Also there are naval bombers in india/ceylon only say 2 days transfer away. In the real world it would take time to move these air units but in the game they seem to fly fine after moving halfway across the map. You are assuming that the landing will capture a decent airbase straight away to transfer your planes to - a big 'if'. I just cannot see how 5 usa carriers with small fighter(size 27) airgroups are going to hold back superior numbers of well-trained japanese aircraft - once the carriers are gone so is the invasion force. The input of japanese carrier and surface forces from the bay of bengal/singapore is also likely. The point loss in allied ships will make the 4:1 autovictory even more likely in 1943 for the japanese.
RE: Naval battle at karachi
In my inexperienced opinion, Java may not get you what you are looking for. If I recall correctly, you (Wobbly) has stated that you are looking for a way to get points to avoid an autovictory by the Japanese.
Java in of itself, does not provide much. Click on each base. The point values are dissappointingly low. I'm guessing that Soerabaja itself is only worth 30 or 40 points. Not much over a hundred points for the island as a whole. Java is not worth attacking (especially as it is a little out of LBA range from Australia, and a LONG way back to serious repair yards for damaged ships) for the victory point value alone. It IS worth cutting off it's oil/resource sources from Japan, but that is a long term affect item.
If you need points fast, because India is about to fall, I don't know what to suggest. The bases worth a lot of points (to the allies) are: (from memory) Rangoon, Singapore, Hong Kong (I think), Saigon (I think), Manila, Okinawa, Marianas, Japan/Hokkaido, Pearl, and probably OZ/NZ. If you think you need to get a few hundred or a couple thousand points (in base values) within a couple months, look around for an easilly isolated high value area and drive for that.
I apologize in advance (to the master startegists out there) for my musings, if they are of no value here.
Java in of itself, does not provide much. Click on each base. The point values are dissappointingly low. I'm guessing that Soerabaja itself is only worth 30 or 40 points. Not much over a hundred points for the island as a whole. Java is not worth attacking (especially as it is a little out of LBA range from Australia, and a LONG way back to serious repair yards for damaged ships) for the victory point value alone. It IS worth cutting off it's oil/resource sources from Japan, but that is a long term affect item.
If you need points fast, because India is about to fall, I don't know what to suggest. The bases worth a lot of points (to the allies) are: (from memory) Rangoon, Singapore, Hong Kong (I think), Saigon (I think), Manila, Okinawa, Marianas, Japan/Hokkaido, Pearl, and probably OZ/NZ. If you think you need to get a few hundred or a couple thousand points (in base values) within a couple months, look around for an easilly isolated high value area and drive for that.
I apologize in advance (to the master startegists out there) for my musings, if they are of no value here.
RE: Naval battle at karachi
Even just putting on a show of invading Java could help tremendously in India (if it's not too late).
RE: Naval battle at karachi
I believe the primary consideration for wobbly was: What can I attack that will force him to pull forces from the India campaign? Java was a suggestion as it has key Japanese resources.
"Measure civilization by the ability of citizens to mock government with impunity" -- Unknown
RE: Naval battle at karachi
Why? If I were very close to autovictory, I would ignore losing a 100 to 200 point value Java for what (I am assuming) a couple thousand points for Bombay and/or Karachi.
I think Wobbly has said that PzB needs 4000 more points for Autovictory. How many more Indian cities need to be captured by PzB to cover this? If PzB can do this within another month, Operation Dutch Shoestring may not be enough of a distraction, unless for morale reasons PzB does not like to yield ANY of his conquests.
I think Wobbly has said that PzB needs 4000 more points for Autovictory. How many more Indian cities need to be captured by PzB to cover this? If PzB can do this within another month, Operation Dutch Shoestring may not be enough of a distraction, unless for morale reasons PzB does not like to yield ANY of his conquests.
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Tom Hunter
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- Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:57 am
RE: Naval battle at karachi
I just want to point out an assumption that seems (apoligies if I am wrong) to be coloring many of the posts on the Java attack. The assumption is that Wobbly needs to attack Java and take it (win).
I would argue that it would be nice if he wins but that its ok if he loses as long and India holds. The prospect of huge amounts of air, KB, troops and everything else in Japan's arsenal coming at him is a good one for Wobbly because everything that comes to Java is not in India. If Wobbly gets into a big fight for Java and loses over the course of a month or two that is fine as long as it prevents auto victory. I realize that if he loses too much then it could increase the chance of auto victory but he has to lose points at a 4 to one rate. So if he fights and loses 2 planes to one or two soldiers to one he is actually messing up PzB's plan. Wobbly actually gets more out of losing a huge attrition battle than he gets from winning a small battles even if he wins by a large margin.
I would argue that it would be nice if he wins but that its ok if he loses as long and India holds. The prospect of huge amounts of air, KB, troops and everything else in Japan's arsenal coming at him is a good one for Wobbly because everything that comes to Java is not in India. If Wobbly gets into a big fight for Java and loses over the course of a month or two that is fine as long as it prevents auto victory. I realize that if he loses too much then it could increase the chance of auto victory but he has to lose points at a 4 to one rate. So if he fights and loses 2 planes to one or two soldiers to one he is actually messing up PzB's plan. Wobbly actually gets more out of losing a huge attrition battle than he gets from winning a small battles even if he wins by a large margin.
RE: Naval battle at karachi
However, I must ask this question that has been weighing on my mind for quite some time...
"Sand in the Vaseline" ?????
I don't know about you but vaseline is mostly associated with anal sex around here... between two males..
now putting sand in the vaseline might give you a rougher ride (something that PzB sure has done) but i severly doub that this is what you had in mind with the title of your AAR [:D]
"Sand in the Vaseline" ?????
I don't know about you but vaseline is mostly associated with anal sex around here... between two males..
now putting sand in the vaseline might give you a rougher ride (something that PzB sure has done) but i severly doub that this is what you had in mind with the title of your AAR [:D]
Surface combat TF fanboy