Maps for MWIF

[c92nichj]

The new SE border will follow in principle the border of "Peter the Great" drawn in 1721, where the entire Karelian isthmus with the city of Viborg, the whole of Viborg Bay with its islands, as well as the territory west and north of Lake Ladoga with the cities of Käkisalmi and Sortavala, are ceded.

A part of the area near Salla and Kuusamo are ceded, due to the closeness of the Murmansk railroad

In Kalastajasaarento (the island NE of Petsamo, Rybachi Peninsula in English), the western part of the island is ceded

The Finnish islands in the eastern part of Gulf of Finland are ceded (Suursaari and the islands to the east)

Hangö and the surrounding area is for 30 years (the Soviet Union gets the right to establish a military base, with as much armed forces as deemed necessary)

[hakon]

In fact, my main was the aesthetics of the blue color of parially land hexsides. (It reminded me of rivers.) Using only black hexsides (like the board game) would work for me. If there has to be several different colors on the hexsides, this should convey some kind of meaning, imho.

The prettiest solution (assuming that blue hexsides at sea is wanted) would be to have the sea-part blue and the land-part black. I realize that this is more work, though.

Anyway, this is just minor nitpick from my side, the maps already look great.

[Froonp]

The new SE border will follow in principle the border of "Peter the Great" drawn in 1721,

According to this map (thanks c92nichj, do you have it larger ?), the hexes in CWiF that are for the moment part of the Finnish Borderlands around hex 26.57 (near Salla, east of Oulu), should be more to the north. It's also what the Scandinavian map shows.

Now, maybe a screenshot of these lands (near Salla) should be shown to a Finnish player (c92nichj ? lomyrin ?) so that he designate which hexes should be part of the Finnish Borderlands.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

The new SE border will follow in principle the border of "Peter the Great" drawn in 1721,

According to this map (thanks c92nichj, do you have it larger ?), the hexes in CWiF that are for the moment part of the Finnish Borderlands around hex 26.57 (near Salla, east of Oulu), should be more to the north. It's also what the Scandinavian map shows.

Now, maybe a screenshot of these lands (near Salla) should be shown to a Finnish player (c92nichj ? lomyrin ?) so that he designate which hexes should be part of the Finnish Borderlands.

Ok.

I had to split it into three pieces. This is from Global War (September 1939) so all the Finnish Borderlands are still under Finnish rule.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

The center piece of 3, which shows the area Patrice believes should be reviewed for accuracy.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

I have just started work improving the railroads.

Hango doesn't say Finnish borderlands - mainly becuase the area is rather crowded - but that is why there is a thin red outline for it.

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About the railroads.

I have them so they now go to the city in the hex, if there is one. 2nd priority is a port and 3rd is a resource point. 4th is a straits connection. Otherwise they are just "pass-through" hexes. I have adjusted how they are drawn for each of the 8 zoom levels so they appear as a slightly darker yellow than the cities with a brown outline. At the 2 lowest levels of zoom, they are pure black.

There is a road in the first of these 3 screen shots that runs up to Petsamo. WIF displays very few roads.

I am going to add cross ties for the railroads. Have them pass through other parts of the hexside than the center. Avoid wet areas. And as a "piece de resistance" (sp?) curve them like Beckham. Oh, and try to find a clever way to handle intersections.

(Patrice, sorry about Tampere. Its day's are numbered).

[Froonp]

(Patrice, sorry about Tampere. Its day's are numbered).

Hey, I've nothing against Tampere, it's just not on the WiF FE Scandinavian map [:D]

[lomyrin]

I believe hx 13,59 should have been Russian to begin with in 1939.

Lars

[lomyrin]

Please disregard the entry re hex 13,59, looking better at the map, it should be Finnish.

Lars

[c92nichj]

The reason USSR claimed the Saala area was that it was to close to the murmansk railroad. This is represnted in the scandinavian map from ADG.

Looking at the CWIF map I think that the whole of Northern Finland looks skewed.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: c92nichj

The reason USSR claimed the Saala area was that it was to close to the murmansk railroad. This is represnted in the scandinavian map from ADG.

Looking at the CWIF map I think that the whole of Northern Finland looks skewed.

All maps are approximations. Some are worse than others. Changing this map isn't going to happen. I do want to set the hex control correctly.

By the way, the Hawaiian Islands in CWIF are seriously wrong too - and that is close to the equator where our friend Mercator has nothing to do with it.

Once the testers get a good look at the maps I'll consider minor changes - but nothing on the scale that you outlined in this marked up copy of the CWIF map.

I have neither the time nor the inclination.

[tiikki]

About Tampere.

WiF Scandinavia map is on Asiatic Scale, CWiF map is on Europic scale. Thats why Tampere got into the map.

Distortion of Scandinavia.
If you haven't noticed maps are 2-dimentional and world is 3-dimentional, and not flat.
There are few "competing" ways of projection of world to flat surface and usually they do distort polar areas differently. The most used way of drawing world maps does distord nordic areas by making them way too big. If you have only small part of the world to draw, you can essentially make it flat and not distord a thing. But when you got the world to draw...

[c92nichj]

ORIGINAL: tiikki

About Tampere.

WiF Scandinavia map is on Asiatic Scale, CWiF map is on Europic scale. Thats why Tampere got into the map.

Distortion of Scandinavia.
If you haven't noticed maps are 2-dimentional and world is 3-dimentional, and not flat.
There are few "competing" ways of projection of world to flat surface and usually they do distort polar areas differently. The most used way of drawing world maps does distord nordic areas by making them way too big. If you have only small part of the world to draw, you can essentially make it flat and not distord a thing. But when you got the world to draw...

It's not the distortion per se I am thinking about, it's that the whole 'head' of the finish lady seems to be a bit to far to the east.

[Anendrue]

Wargames maps on a strategic scale are almost never correct for a multitude of reasons. Some of which I'll list below:

1) artistic rendering when a limited finite space is usable
2) mercator, conic, buckeyball, and other projections lead to different distortions and views
3) most importantly game playability when applied to: area of operations, unit sizes, transportation, and movement to just name a few often requires maps to drawn with changes to surface areas

However, balancing all of this and more; results in distortions of all types of data, not just maps. Playability and interest is the overiding concern when making these judgements in game design.

[Incy]

I have a friend that modified the cwif map for scandinavia and northwest russia some time back, it there's interest I could send someone the modified cwif file. His map looks much better and also reflects military realities in northern scandinavia much closer.

[c92nichj]

ORIGINAL: Incy

I have a friend that modified the cwif map for scandinavia and northwest russia some time back, it there's interest I could send someone the modified cwif file. His map looks much better and also reflects military realities in northern scandinavia much closer.

This looks a lot better, you recognise finland and the Saala border lands are close to the railway meaning that Finland can setup sp he Zoc's the railway if the borderlands have not been chosen.

[Neilster]

This was why I started the spherical global map thread about a hundred years ago.

tm.asp?m=677366

Maybe for MWiF 2 ? [:'(]

Cheers, Neilster.

ps I don't like the look of Denmark here. Can you change it Steve? [:D][:D][:D]

[Anendrue]

If you want great maps then NASA's blue marble project is a great start. Look at their interactive viewer to see landforms complete with Earth curvature. These are satellite images and pretty incredible. Perhaps in 5 or 10 years when a buckeyball implementation is feasable for a wargame this would be a good start. Enjoy the link. [:)]

However I reitterate that this would be a massive implementation for a wargame suce as MWiF and definitely not reasonable.

http://www.blue-marble.de/

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Incy

I have a friend that modified the cwif map for scandinavia and northwest russia some time back, it there's interest I could send someone the modified cwif file. His map looks much better and also reflects military realities in northern scandinavia much closer.

I am sorely tempted. However, there is simply too much else to do. Please send me a copy of the modified file if you can locate it. I'll put it on the long list of things to do as 'improvements'.

[Froonp]

I am sorely tempted. However, there is simply too much else to do. Please send me a copy of the modified file if you can locate it. I'll put it on the long list of things to do as 'improvements'.

I feel as Steve, and would be like him if I was in charge of the project.

Those maps look like a big improvement compared to the CWiF Scandinavian maps.

Moreover, it looks like it's only a small part of the map to "copy & paste" into the new maps, so it is very tempting to ask you this one as dearly as the 3-D counters

But what about the couple of hexes north of Petsamo that are part of the Finnish borderlands ? They are not included here ?

Anyway, no much action is taking place in Karelia & north of Vyborg.