Wild Sheep Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A)

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Sangeli

Seeing as you yourself thought Moppo was going to be unCAPed based off the previous turns intel, don't you think it's unrealistic for the AI to understand that and not send strike aircraft there? I think people tend to underestimate the effect of FOW and friction, especially with the Japanese who had less sophisticated communication networks than the US. There is a reason IRL why Japanese LBA failed to have a significant impact in stopping the USN juggernaut during the latter half of the war and it was not just the lack of skill/experience of the individual pilots. You should expect the AI to make boneheaded mistakes and fail to coordinate strikes because that's just what happened IRL. Although I agree it's a bit unfortunate you cannot give more specific orders to air groups such as bases to stay away from. Would be nice if you could put arcs like you can for NAVs but oh well.

The AI works in game on DL. The coast watchers provided better DL than anything this turn. That's most likely why most strike groups impaled themselves on the CAP at Moppo.

The ships off the coast of Japan unCAPed also had a pretty high DL. Why didn't more groups fly there, including those who sat on their a**es? It wouldn't have stopped the strategic goal of reinforcing Moppo, but it would have made that move cost a dear price.

As for the supply issue I guess that's the price you pay for production optimization and prioritizing aircraft over supply stockpiles. Again, I believe it is perfectly accurate and historical for AI to move supply around illogical ways because that's just what happened in the war. Getting the right parts to the right bases in a timely matter IRL was HARD and the problem is compounded by the variety of Japanese planes. If you read historical accounts of campaigns and look at the logistical details you find dozens of stories of things like a division receiving an extra 10,000 uniforms but no rain gear then getting drenched by rain for weeks straight because two cargo ships got mixed up. The best way to counteract that was just sending extra of everything which obviously isn't happening when all your supply stockpiles are low.

However, I definitely agree about the Kamis should just skip the experience checks when determining whether or not they will fly missions. Maybe in future patches this can be implemented because it's a lot more accurate.

Like most people on this forum I've read a fair amount about the war. I think anything the Japanese can do at this point in a scenario geared to represent actual capabilities is frosting. That said, it removes the agency of 'playing' the game when you can't set units to behave as they would in a real life situation. Do you really think 500-1000 planes would sit in base while invasions of Korea were ongoing and fleets of retiring Allied ships were sailing past the Home islands?

Your smug comment about 'the price you pay for production optimization and prioritizing aircraft over supply stockpiles' is a bit annoying. You've obviously not played this side of the game to the end. Historical would be me sitting and waiting for the last year of game for the Allies to overrun every position on map with no chance to do anything about it. I know that, and yet I'm playing a game that postulates alternate histories every time it's played. In the real war the Allies would also not be fighting still after losing 3-5 CVs, 20+ CVEs and a pretty fair number of assault shipping in the past month. But of course that wouldn't happen if it hadn't been for over-powered Japanese RnD and production. Shall we chase our tail a while longer?

I made several mistakes involving supply, some long term and some short term. Air 'optimization' was a minor pull on the supply use for this Empire, and part of that was by choice. You see, the history of this game is that it's the first real PBEM for both of us. For me it's the first chance to see the effects of the Japanese economy for the whole game. I made a conscious choice to make more airframe types than I should to 'optimize' the economy. I want to see how they work, test them and provide some feedback for others.

Supply issues have much more to do with over-building of defensive positions, airfields and ports and an ignorance of how devastating an Allied strategic air campaign could be in late 44-45. If I had known my supply generation would be cut in half by early 45 I would have played a few things differently.

Anyway, not sure why I feel the need to answer this comment, but maybe it's the two vodka OJ I just had after dinner on a stormy night on the 18th floor here in London tonight. I might just have a scotch now so take care to be a bit less condescending if you reply. [:)]

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Feurer Krieg

I'll second what Mr. Lemon said.

You managed to actually drive the actions of the Allied forces for the past couple weeks which is no small feet for a late war Japan. Nice job!

In Korea - if you haven't already bought all the AA units out, have you concentrated them in the places you want to defend? I know it isn't the greatest, but every little bit helps.

I had to send some over, but i have a decent amount over the troops in the clear and some at Masan. I also sent some of the big base forces with DP guns, so if he comes in low that will not be a happy moment for 4E crews. [8D]

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: obvert

After this we got a sighting of the biggest of the big before the MTB was vaporized. nice that two are burning, which makes me feel like at least those hits are somewhat serious. [8D]

I'm not fully up on this, but I thought that the smoke graphic also showed above a certain system damage level (like ">10"). So does that graphic really mean that two are still on fire?

From torp hits I know that system is never as high as float damage. So if the system damage is up over 10 then I'm hoping float and maybe engine damage is also up there. One more of the beasts was hit but is not smoking, so these two are most likely damaged in a real way. Or so I hope!

[Lokasenna]

But not damaged enough to split into an escort TF (I don't know the threshhold for that, but it's definitely north of 30, probably north of 40).


As a slight counter to Lemon (and definite counter to some of what I've seen in other threads...), and perhaps perpendicular to what you're saying about working off of DL... Even "clear" things like X number of planes on a strike are muddled and abstracted by the game. Just as in war.

Maybe your pilots flew 120 extra miles because they got lost! Maybe Joc meant to have more or fewer ships around but they didn't make it for who knows what reason. It's war. Crap happens. Look at Savo Island or Pearl Harbor or Yamamoto's assassination or any number of other battles - the Allies could have had ample warning, but for a whole number of reasons (sometimes just one), they didn't, and it made the battle go a certain way. Expecting every unit to follow your orders all the time, or even to attack what you, the player outside the electronic box, thinks is the most attractive target is unrealistic - we aren't playing an RTS. It sucks that you didn't get more swings at the BBs at Moppo, but crap happens. IRL I'm sure some heads would be rolling, or some seppukus committed.

Or Crappens, for short. I think I may have stumbled upon a new forum handle...

[Sangeli]

ORIGINAL: obvert
Do you really think 500-1000 planes would sit in base while invasions of Korea were ongoing and fleets of retiring Allied ships were sailing past the Home islands?

I don't know because that didn't happen IRL. But think of prelude to Midway. The Japanese only had the Shokaku waiting in Japan for repairs and the Zuikaku waiting in Japan for more planes and pilots. As a result neither participated in the battle and IMO this had a decisive impact. Why didn't the Shokaku planes/pilots load up on the Zuikaku and sail with the rest of the carrier fleet? Sometimes things like this just happened. And this is by no means the only example.

ORIGINAL: obvert
Your smug comment about 'the price you pay for production optimization and prioritizing aircraft over supply stockpiles' is a bit annoying. You've obviously not played this side of the game to the end. Historical would be me sitting and waiting for the last year of game for the Allies to overrun every position on map with no chance to do anything about it.

You are making inferences of things I never implied. I never implied that you were doing this the wrong way. Rather I my point was that there is a trade off involved in when trying to use as much supply for other aspects. I mentioned aircraft explicitly but as you have inferred I am not a JFB and I'm not really that aware how the supply usage breaks down (I didn't realize that fort building was a greater investment but that's not really the point). I have made these sorts of optimizations in other games as well tying to keep supply levels at the very minimum in order to boost other aspects of the economy. My main point is that there is an inherent tradeoff with supply levels and the economy.

ORIGINAL: obvert
I know that, and yet I'm playing a game that postulates alternate histories every time it's played.

I am not arguing for historical outcomes, only historical mechanics. A game which has historical and accurate mechanics but allows for an infinite number of ahistoric outcomes is the pinnacle of strategy warfare games. This game is close but not perfect - I just think its' a bit closer than you give it credit.

Anyway I hope you read this post and reread my first post and realize I am not trying to be hostile or critical. I am merely saying that I think the game mechanics which tend to frustrate people in fact a bit more accurate than people realize.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

But not damaged enough to split into an escort TF (I don't know the threshhold for that, but it's definitely north of 30, probably north of 40).


As a slight counter to Lemon (and definite counter to some of what I've seen in other threads...), and perhaps perpendicular to what you're saying about working off of DL... Even "clear" things like X number of planes on a strike are muddled and abstracted by the game. Just as in war.

Maybe your pilots flew 120 extra miles because they got lost! Maybe Joc meant to have more or fewer ships around but they didn't make it for who knows what reason. It's war. Crap happens. Look at Savo Island or Pearl Harbor or Yamamoto's assassination or any number of other battles - the Allies could have had ample warning, but for a whole number of reasons (sometimes just one), they didn't, and it made the battle go a certain way. Expecting every unit to follow your orders all the time, or even to attack what you, the player outside the electronic box, thinks is the most attractive target is unrealistic - we aren't playing an RTS. It sucks that you didn't get more swings at the BBs at Moppo, but crap happens. IRL I'm sure some heads would be rolling, or some seppukus committed.

Or Crappens, for short. I think I may have stumbled upon a new forum handle...

Up to a point the laisee faire, lets just go with how the game decides things is fine. At some point though we're all playing this to see how we would do as a commander. That includes the muddle of FOW of course, and bungled ops, lost supplies and interdicted LOCs.

Still, to get the feeling we can do something in this game it's always better when there is some ability to at least understand why something happened, for better or worse. The frustrating bit is that we never do, and I know also war is like that. But this is not war, it's a war game, which is supposed to help us understand military situations and be able to assess our successes and failures objectively. We can't do that if we don't know WTF is going on?

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Sangeli

Anyway I hope you read this post and reread my first post and realize I am not trying to be hostile or critical. I am merely saying that I think the game mechanics which tend to frustrate people in fact a bit more accurate than people realize.

Okay. I love this game. I think it's a great way to understand 90% of what was going on in the war. Still, that 10% is getting in the way of seeing it really perform like a test of the ability to play through the possible outcomes of this conflict in game.

If this game was accurate there would be no Japanese players. Period.

Since we all agree it's better to have a game than complete accuracy I think having more ability to affect outcomes with something like air strike settings would be a good thing. It doesn't exist in this game, it won't probably ever, but that would be good if it did. i think that would be actually more accurate in this case, because if there were Allied fleets near the HI landing troops the Japanese would not have been as restrained as I've tried to be holding back some section of the air force for the future. It would be oil drums in thousands of biplanes on one way missions.

[obvert]

The next turn opens with, yes, more minesweeping at Shimoneseki. Are these some kind of experimental self-multipling mine?[:D]

Lost another AMc. Maybe they shouldn't sweep the mines at night.

[obvert]

I know I've forgotten something when I start to see Peggy (T) search messages on the Allied fleet. Oh, uh, I guess they're flying today ...

[obvert]

I sent out the Kashi and a few small escorts to see if they could get to damaged transports, but no luck there. The Allied CVs sent in strikes right to Nagasaki (a dangerously aggressive range for them to be set) but lucky for them I flew the majority of the low CAP out to change-up airframes and rest.

[obvert]

Only one J2M3 unit was at 20k and the rest of the Franks were at 32k, so although they bagged a lot of Hellcats and a decent amount of Avengers, the Kashi took one torpedo and immediately disbanded into the shipyard. The last of the training cruisers will only need two weeks to be back out there causing havoc!

[obvert]

The most distant of the 2E that I'd forgotten to turn off flew today at ships landing troops on Saicho To. That sucks, since it's quite a bit farther than the many free shots at transports they would have had yesterday, and all of the escorts were stood down. My bad, but smarts.

[obvert]

The 4Es arrived there to reduce our troops before the division equivalent the Allies landed takes the base. We have about 150AV, but it won't stand a chance tomorrow after a pounding from the air.

[obvert]

[font="Times New Roman"]7 June 1945[/font]
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

[font="Microsoft Sans Serif"]SUBS: [/font] Another sub hit going for the amphibs at Saisho To, but not yet sunk!

[font="Microsoft Sans Serif"]KOREA: [/font] The troops begin to trudge back to Gunzan. I'm putting several rear divisions into strat mode to support as reserve incase the whole newly landed army moves this way. Our two tank divisions wil make the base tomorrow bringing it to 2k AV before the rest of the force gets in a day or two after. It will be fairly secure at 5kAV, but this is late war, low supply and in the clear, so who knows. Trying to put up enough of a wall that the Allies can't use superior maneuver and firepower to rush ahead.

Still have to keep a bit of an eye on the Allied fleet, but even with most groups off it's costly. Looks like 26 planes lost today.

SEARCH:

[font="Trebuchet MS"]Search P1Y2 Frances destroyed by CAP
Search P1Y2 Frances destroyed by CAP
Search P1Y2 Frances destroyed by CAP at (100,54)
Search E13A1b Jake destroyed by CAP
Search B5N2 Kate destroyed by CAP at (100,54)
Search E15K1 Norm destroyed by CAP
Search E15K1 Norm destroyed by CAP at (100,54)
Search Ki-46-II Dinah destroyed by CAP at (100,54)
Search Ki-46-II Dinah destroyed by CAP at (100,54)
Search Ki-46-III Dinah destroyed by CAP at (96,56)
Search Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy destroyed by CAP
Search Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy destroyed by CAP at (100,54)
Search Ki-30 Ann destroyed by CAP
Search H8K2 Emily destroyed by CAP
Search H6K4 Mavis destroyed by CAP
Search B5N1 Kate destroyed by CAP
Search P1Y2 Frances destroyed by CAP
Search P1Y2 Frances destroyed by CAP
Search E7K2 Alf destroyed by CAP at (100,54)
Search E7K2 Alf destroyed by CAP at (100,54)
Search B5N2 Kate destroyed by CAP
Search B5N2 Kate destroyed by CAP
Search B5N2 Kate destroyed by CAP
Search B5N2 Kate destroyed by CAP
Search Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy destroyed by CAP at (100,54)[/font]

[font="Microsoft Sans Serif"]STRAT BOMBING:[/font] None today. Still burning though!

REPORT:
[font="Trebuchet MS"]Fires causing damage to Light Industry at Osaka/Kyoto![/font]

[font="Microsoft Sans Serif"]HOME ISLANDS: [/font] The Kashi hit took another toll on Allied CV air, and doesn't hurt us at all. Makes up a little for the debacle of losing a few groups of Peggy (T) and a few of Frances due to operator error. Spent Sam units begin to rest and some will change to the J2M5 for Home defense as the pool is still at 600 for that lane while the Sam pool is at 15! A few groups will also downgrade to A6M5b to get the service 1 daily usability in certain bases. I'd like to use the A6M8 but that is only being made at 45/month and the pool is dry after upgrading many of the kami/CAP units to it.

The IJAAF groups are also rearranging a bit, the Ki-100 being the plane of choice for defense low with the Frank "r' and Ki-83 still working the top layers. A lot of small kami/CAP units use both the Oscar and Ki-61d, which are both surprisingly decent against bombers, and one group is using the Ki-61 KAI pool. These are not bad on day one against big raids, and got a ton of kills over Osaka recently, but on day 2 the group was shot with only 5 planes operational due to service 4. I have only one group of Ki-83 operating, but might make another now bringing the total in the air to 98 possible.

The J7W1 is at 7 planes in the pool!! Nearly enough to upgrade our expert 9 plane group in Osaka. I'd love to get them into the 18 plane 901 group that was originally the Tainan Ku S-1. At least one plot has survived all of the way through. That would be a fitting finish for them. [:)]

[font="Microsoft Sans Serif"]CHINA: [/font] If Changsha had held for a while I had a plan to attempt a release of the trapped army. Not sure that will be able to work now. I'll start step one and then see how we go. Bungled the Changsha defense getting these divisions trashed. It could have held a while here, but so it is with late war Japan.

[font="Trebuchet MS"]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR June 7, 45
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ASW attack near Saishu To at 98,55

Japanese Ships
SS I-201, hits 2

Allied Ships
DE Electra
DE Sederstrom

SS I-201 is located by DE Electra
I-201 bottoming out ....
DE Sederstrom attacking submerged sub ....

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TF 67 encounters mine field at Shimonoseki (104,57)

Japanese Ships
AMc Ogashima
AMc Shintohoku Maru
AMc Kyo Maru #3, Mine hits 1, heavy damage

93 mines cleared

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TF 77 encounters mine field at Shimonoseki (104,57)

Japanese Ships
AMc Ma 4
AMc Banshu Maru #56

62 mines cleared

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Pre-Invasion action off Saishu To (99,55)

116 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied Ships
DD Petard
DD Voyager
LSI(L) Denbighshire
DD Vendetta

Allied ground losses:
48 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 10 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

DD Petard firing at 11th Ind.Mixed Regiment
DD Voyager firing at 2nd Amphibious Brigade
Defensive Guns fire at approaching troops in landing craft at 5,000 yards
Defensive Guns fire at approaching troops in landing craft at 1,000 yards

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Amphibious Assault at Saishu To (99,55)

TF 211 troops unloading over beach at Saishu To, 99,55

Allied ground losses:
142 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 26 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 30 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 9 (0 destroyed, 9 disabled)
Vehicles lost 17 (1 destroyed, 16 disabled)

Motorized Support dropped into water during unload of 40th Infantry/B Div /5

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TF 67 encounters mine field at Shimonoseki (104,57)

Japanese Ships
AMc Shintohoku Maru

40 mines cleared

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TF 77 encounters mine field at Shimonoseki (104,57)

Japanese Ships
AMc Ma 4
AMc Banshu Maru #56

80 mines cleared

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Morning Air attack on TF, near Saishu To at 99,55

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 75 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 20 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy x 18

Allied aircraft
Spitfire VIII x 26
P-47N Thunderbolt x 35
F4U-1D Corsair x 16

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy: 10 destroyed

No Allied losses

Allied Ships
AKA Pamina, and is sunk Did this ship hit a mine, have a collision, or what? Did they run over a downed Peggy and spring a leak in the hold?


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Morning Air attack on TF, near Nagasaki/Sasebo at 102,58

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 77 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 35 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J2M3 Jack x 13
Ki-84r Frank x 36

Allied aircraft
Hellcat I x 17
Hellcat F.II x 13
F6F-5 Hellcat x 159
TBM-3 Avenger x 8

Japanese aircraft losses
J2M3 Jack: 1 destroyed
Ki-84r Frank: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Hellcat F.II: 3 destroyed
F6F-5 Hellcat: 10 destroyed
TBM-3 Avenger: 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
CL Kashii, Torpedo hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x TBM-3 Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 22in Mk 13 Torpedo

CAP engaged:
S-317 Hikotai with J2M3 Jack (0 airborne, 10 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 3000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 22 minutes
52nd Sentai with Ki-84r Frank (0 airborne, 9 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 32000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 13000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 24 minutes
104th Sentai with Ki-84r Frank (0 airborne, 10 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 32000 , scrambling fighters between 5000 and 17000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 26 minutes
105th Sentai with Ki-84r Frank (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 32000 , scrambling fighters between 14000 and 32000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 25 minutes

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TF 67 encounters mine field at Shimonoseki (104,57)

Japanese Ships
AMc Shintohoku Maru, Mine hits 1, heavy damage

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Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Saishu To at 99,55

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 39 NM, estimated altitude 5,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
P1Y2 Frances x 5

Allied aircraft
Spitfire VIII x 22
P-47N Thunderbolt x 35
F4U-1D Corsair x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
P1Y2 Frances: 3 destroyed

No Allied losses

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Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Saishu To at 99,55

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 38 NM, estimated altitude 5,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
P1Y2 Frances x 13

Allied aircraft
Spitfire VIII x 19
P-47N Thunderbolt x 35
F4U-1D Corsair x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
P1Y2 Frances: 8 destroyed

No Allied losses

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Afternoon Air attack on 11th Ind.Mixed Regiment, at 99,55 (Saishu To)

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Allied aircraft
Liberator B.VI x 17
Liberator GR.VI x 9
B-24J Liberator x 9
Spitfire VIII x 13
B-17E Fortress x 2
B-17F Fortress x 3
B-24J Liberator x 46
F4U-1D Corsair x 13
PB4Y-1 Liberator x 17

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
756 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 41 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 64 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 8 disabled
Guns lost 26 (1 destroyed, 25 disabled)

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x PB4Y-1 Liberator bombing from 9000 feet
Ground Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

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Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Nagasaki/Sasebo at 102,58

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 79 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 36 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J2M3 Jack x 11
Ki-84r Frank x 35

Allied aircraft
Hellcat I x 18
Hellcat F.II x 7
F6F-5 Hellcat x 113
TBM-3 Avenger x 10

Japanese aircraft losses
J2M3 Jack: 1 destroyed
Ki-84r Frank: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Hellcat I: 4 destroyed
F6F-5 Hellcat: 14 destroyed
TBM-3 Avenger: 4 destroyed, 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
CL Kashii

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x TBM-3 Avenger bombing from 10000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb Out of torps?

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Ground combat at Saishu To (99,55)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 4181 troops, 72 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 112 Reduced by over a 1/3 due to one day of airstrikes.

Defending force 10396 troops, 213 guns, 212 vehicles, Assault Value = 368

Japanese ground losses:
103 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 8 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Assaulting units:
11th Ind.Mixed Rgt /2
108th Ind.Mixed Brigade
2nd Amphibious Bde /1

Defending units:
40th Infantry/A Div /1
40th Infantry/B Div /1
40th Infantry/C Div /1

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Ground combat at Changsha (82,52)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 60057 troops, 1024 guns, 2050 vehicles, Assault Value = 2783

Defending force 31866 troops, 298 guns, 33 vehicles, Assault Value = 702

Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 4

Allied adjusted assault: 1701

Japanese adjusted defense: 819

Allied assault odds: 2 to 1 (fort level 4)

Allied Assault reduces fortifications to 4

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), disruption(-), preparation(-)
experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
1722 casualties reported
Squads: 218 destroyed, 109 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 48 disabled
Engineers: 7 destroyed, 21 disabled
Guns lost 38 (11 destroyed, 27 disabled)
Vehicles lost 4 (2 destroyed, 2 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
1412 casualties reported
Squads: 7 destroyed, 83 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 38 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 26 disabled
Vehicles lost 38 (2 destroyed, 36 disabled)

Assaulting units:
17th Motorised Division
18th Cavalry Regiment
50th Tank Brigade
Guides Cavalry Regiment
Gardner's Horse Regiment
19th Motorised Division
Provisionl Tank Brigade
254th Armoured Brigade
6th Australian Division
3rd Cavalry Regiment
255th Indian Tank Brigade
11th PAVO Regiment
9th Australian Division
14th Army
2/9th Field Regiment
2/11th Field Regiment
2/13th Field Regiment

Defending units:
35th Division
65th Brigade
32nd Division
51st Division
58th Infantry Regiment
5th Ind.Mixed Brigade
63rd Division
13th RGC Temp./B Division
56th Const Co
8th Ind. Field Artillery Battalion
54th JAAF AF Bn

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Ground combat at 81,55 (near Pingsiang)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 4105 troops, 270 guns, 305 vehicles, Assault Value = 2098

Defending force 125912 troops, 1247 guns, 699 vehicles, Assault Value = 3581

Japanese ground losses:
426 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 35 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 2 disabled
Guns lost 3 (1 destroyed, 2 disabled)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/font]

Reinforcements: none.

Losses:

[font="Trebuchet MS"]AMc Kyo Maru #3 sinks at sea[/font]

Ships Sunk: No idea how this ship was damaged.

[font="Trebuchet MS"]AKA Pamina[/font]
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

[font="Trebuchet MS"]These ships looked a bit grisly by the end of the war. A fine pic of USS Pamina, AKA-34 most likely transporting troops home after VJ Day. [/font]
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

[obvert]

[font="Times New Roman"]AIR DROPPED MINES[/font]
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The Allied air dropped mine effort in the war was the final straw in the campaign against Japanese shipping and crippled even the ability to make local resource and supply shipments around the coasts of the Home Islands. In game this is abstracted so that they have to be dropped on a base. In the war they would ba all along sea channels and in straits, or in approaches to big ports. I guess this approximates the approaches to ports in game, but we always know mines have been dropped, so that takes a bit of the surprise away.

Jocke has dropped a few massive fields in big ports through 44-45. The recent mining of Fukuoka, Fusan and Shimoneseki have been among the largest of the war, dropped by hundreds of B-29s, and have created a small side game for me in having to clear them. Luckily no major shipping has been hit yet, but there are still fields in both places. Here is a look at Shimonoseki as an example of a massive Allied aerial mining operation.

[font="Microsoft Sans Serif"]SHIMONOSEKI: [/font]
[font="Trebuchet MS"]
MAY 28, 45
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Night Air attack on Shimonoseki , at 104,57

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 25 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J1N1-Sa Irving x 13

Allied aircraft
B-29-1 Superfort x 22
B-29-25 Superfort x 97
B-29B Superfort x 74

No Japanese losses

No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
119 x B-29-1 and B-29-25 Superfort laying Mk 13 Mine from 9000 feet
74 x B-29B laying Mk 13 Mine from 9000 feet[/font]
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MINESWEEPERS LOST:

AM -1
AMc - 3
ML - 15

955 mines swept so far

[Chickenboy]

Lovin' the updates, mate! Thanks for the detail you put into them. I am definitely living vicariously through your efforts. [&o]

[Captain Cruft]

I wouldn't get too excited about the Shinden. It doesn't do any better against the P-47N or P-51H than anything else.

The Karyu is the thing you need ...

[setloz]

I'm very curious about how the Shinden will fare against P47s. Fingers crossed for your factory not getting destroyed.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Captain Cruft

I wouldn't get too excited about the Shinden. It doesn't do any better against the P-47N or P-51H than anything else.

I'd heard a few reports of the Shinden in combat that reflect this opinion as well. However, don't the 4x30mm (high gun value) of the Shinden shred Allied heavy bombers? As a fighter v. fighter it seems so-so. As an anti-bomber platform it seems terribly vicious. At least on paper.

[crsutton]

Sort of been in and out of this AAR with little or no comment for a good while but have enjoyed the discussion about supply. Now that we have seen a few games go "long" (Ark and I made it to 8/1/45) our collective understanding of the game has changed. In the end, for Japan, it does all come down to supply and fuel. And the burden is on the Japanese player to continually look for economy in force. This is actually good in my mind as the designers have gotten something right in that to really "feel" like a Japanese player you need to be sweating resources from day one.

My own game and the discussions here have taught me a lot. For one I just do not fear the incredible Japanese rampages that took place early on in my last game. Like you say it all comes at a price. And, unlike some of my fellow posters here, I have come away with the exact opposite opinion of how to play the Allies. That is, there is no need to Sir Robin and wait for the inevitable flood of material but the best Allied course is to fight everywhere that it is feasible in 1942 (meaning not stupid) because as you point out so well, every fight drains the Japanese player's ability to do something else.

The game is so simple. It is all about resources. Supply and fuel are Japan's currency. Any way you can figure out to make the Japanese player spend extra currency is a viable path to victory.

I don't know if the game should be militarily "winnable" for the Japanese player. However there should be some significant VP adjustments for late game achievements. And if the Allies are not on the home islands in strength by some time in late 1945, then it should be considered a total victory for the Japanese player. And I personally have always thought that auto-victory should never be an option. Under no circumstances would there have been some sort of auto-victory for Japan in real life.