The Thread

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: niceguy2005

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

ORIGINAL: scott1964

Chris
Are you ready for more snow? [X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(]

We got snow here in Central Ohio this morning. It stuck in the form of water.... [:D]

I've been told that we are going to get another 20" of snow here in Denver starting Thursday. I'm supposed to finally have that interview Friday. [8|]

I recommend a half dozen or so Huskies. They will work well in your predicament.

[niceguy2005]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Funny story here. In grad school, I had an old fart advisor who made me analyze my data by hand for a couple of weeks so I would understand how that particular type of analysis worked (probit analysis). Anyone who ever did a probit analyis by hand knows it takes about 8 hours to do one by hand. [X(] I did as he told and kept coming up with different numbers than what the computer was telling me. After a couple of weeks of pulling my hair out, my advisor asked me how it was going. I told him of my plight and he took my data, my analysis and the computer analysis and went into his office. I then smelled his pipe (he always smoked a pipe when he was thinking). When I left that day, he was still in there. Turned out that he was doing some by hand himself. He came up with the same results that I did. We had a few conversations with the company that produced the software and eventually found out that they screwed up that program. Lots of people had based lots of research on that faulty program and had to re-analyze it because of us. It turned out that no one had ever analyzed their data by hand. [:D] I made a lot of enemies. [:D]

[:D] Thus, this is why we learn the math. Working with engineers I have found that they never trust anyone else's work. They will only use a program if it has been tested over and over again and they can actually look into the program and see how the computations are being done.

I had a similar experience. In freshman physics the professor took away our calculators for a semester and required that we work all of his problems by hand. This was shortly after the Challenger accident and he said he would never be responsible for turning out Shuttle O-ring designers. [8|]

[rtrapasso]

I had a similar experience. In freshman physics the professor took away our calculators for a semester and required that we work all of his problems by hand. This was shortly after the Challenger accident and he said he would never be responsible for turning out Shuttle O-ring designers.

[8|] [8|]

it wasn't the Shuttle O-ring designers that caused the problem - the engineers knew things were wrong and tried to warn the mission controllers, iirc.


And hopefully, they won't be asking x-ray techs to recreate the CAT scan results by solving the equations to reproduce the pic... [:-] (each pixel would probably be about 8 hours of calculations...)

[scott64]

Hey Mike
Have you looked at my problem yet? [:)]

[Mynok]

I know exactly how you feel Nik. Let me share a story.

My wife and I were married in the summer of 1995. She was almost finished with her nursing degree in SC, and planned to complete it at a small college in the NC town where I was living and working at the time. Moved all her stuff up then went through the application and transfer process. Halfway through, her transcripts arrive and the college says "I'm sorry, but you'll have to retake all your chemistry courses", which in nursing means essentially starting over.

So she ends up having to move back to SC for a year to finish. I stayed in NC. When she finished up in early 1997, I found out that my company got bought. Since I didn't want to work for the new owners, I was on the hunt. The only ones available were either moving far away.......or traveling every week. The latter paid a lot more, so I took it. Leave Sunday night.....return Friday morning. Every week.

It wasn't funny at the time, but we do get a chuckle out of it now.

[DuckofTindalos]

To round out the tales of woe for the day, my internship is shaping up to be a complete mess.

It's blindingly obvious that the guy who hired me has had exactly zero experience with interns, and that he has no idea what to do with me. I've been parked behind a desk for a couple of days now, whilst he's been hiding in his office.

I've told him that I can't do the job I'm supposed to do without his input, and yesterday he said "he'd look into it". Nothing happened today, except that he said the same thing. When I reported to him at the end of work today and told him what I'd spent the day doing, he didn't even look up from the catalogue on his desk! He has until tomorrow lunchtime to get off his PHB backside, otherwise I'm outta there as fast as my legs can carry me.

And that's quite fast... over short distances...

[niceguy2005]

ORIGINAL: scott1964

Chris
Are you ready for more snow? [X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(]

NO. I think I will move in with Faber down at the South Pole, it should be considerably less snowy. [8|]

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: scott1964

Hey Mike
Have you looked at my problem yet? [:)]

When did you send it, Scott? I didn't get it.

[niceguy2005]

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

I had a similar experience. In freshman physics the professor took away our calculators for a semester and required that we work all of his problems by hand. This was shortly after the Challenger accident and he said he would never be responsible for turning out Shuttle O-ring designers.

[8|] [8|]

it wasn't the Shuttle O-ring designers that caused the problem - the engineers knew things were wrong and tried to warn the mission controllers, iirc.


And hopefully, they won't be asking x-ray techs to recreate the CAT scan results by solving the equations to reproduce the pic... [:-] (each pixel would probably be about 8 hours of calculations...)

Why would they build it wrong in the first place? IIRC it was a bad design, followed by incorrect quaility proceedures. As I recal Feynman's report did blame the shuttle o-ring designers, but laid equal blame at the feet of NASA, who accepted the design.

[niceguy2005]

Sorry to hear that T. You've got to marvel at, if not admire, a boss that can suck the excitement and energy out of a job within two days. [8|] Start calling him Count Dracula. [:D]

[niceguy2005]

Well, I had a small bit of good news today. My company got a reprieve (sp?) and got some funding for the next 3-4 months...which is about as long as it should take for the snow to melt and for me to get to that job interview. [X(]

[rtrapasso]

Why would they build it wrong in the first place?

If you are asked to build something to function between say 40 - 120 degrees Fahrenheit, and then someone decides to operate at 0 degrees F, did you build it wrong?

The engineers knew what the design specs were, and warned that they were being exceeded from what i understand. They were ignored, but i hardly think that was their fault, nor the fault of the design per se.

EDIT: IIRC - from reading Feynman's book (autobiography), it was the design specs being exceeded that did in the shuttle. It has been some years since i read it, though. There were problems with the o-rings as you mentioned, but only when they stressed the design beyond the max specs did the catastrophic result occur.

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: niceguy2005

Sorry to hear that T. You've got to marvel at, if not admire, a boss that can suck the excitement and energy out of a job within two days. [8|] Start calling him Count Dracula. [:D]

I have a dental hygenist who's been doing my teeth for over 20 years. I always called her Dr. Mengle. My mouth would ache for a couple of days after she was through with me. My wife used to laugh and call me a wimp (true but not in this case), until she got her a year or so ago. She appologized profusely and made it up to me that night. [:D]

[scott64]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

ORIGINAL: scott1964

Hey Mike
Have you looked at my problem yet? [:)]

When did you send it, Scott? I didn't get it.

I resent it again. [&:]Sent yesterday afternoon.

[Mike Solli]

Did you send it to michael.solli@us.army.mil ? If not, try that one.

[Mike Solli]

Damn, now I did it. Now all you crazies know my real name. [:D]

[Mynok]

Expect spam from T shortly....... [:D]

[rtrapasso]

Looked up some stuff on the report of the Challenger:

"At a teleconference which took place on the evening of the 27th, Thiokol engineers and managers discussed the weather conditions with NASA managers from Kennedy Space Center and Marshall Space Flight Center. Several engineers—most notably Roger Boisjoly—expressed their concern about the effect of the temperature on the resilience of the rubber O-rings that sealed the joints of the solid rocket boosters. They argued that if the O-rings were colder than 53 degrees F (approximately 11.7 degrees C), there was no guarantee they would seat properly. They also argued that the cold overnight temperatures would almost certainly result in SRB temperatures below their redline of 40 degrees F. However, they were overruled by Morton Thiokol management, and Morton Thiokol recommended that the launch proceed as scheduled."

So, this part was actually not NASA (as i had thought) but Morton Thiokol.



"One of the commission's most well-known members was theoretical physicist Richard Feynman. During a televised hearing, he famously demonstrated how the O-rings became less resilient and subject to seal failures at ice-cold temperatures by immersing a sample of the material in a glass of ice water. He was so critical of flaws in NASA's "safety culture" that he threatened to remove his name from the report unless it included his personal observations on the reliability of the shuttle, which appeared as Appendix F. In the appendix, he argued that the estimates of reliability offered by NASA management were wildly unrealistic, differing as much as a thousandfold from the estimates of working engineers. "

[rtrapasso]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Damn, now I did it. Now all you crazies know my real name. [:D]

Yeah, you had concealed it so well until now... [:D]

[scott64]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Did you send it to michael.solli@us.army.mil ? If not, try that one.

I sent it a wowway account...[X(] edit, sent to the mil email. [:)]