Bish Bash Boche - A 41 GC JB (A) & Veterin (S)

[jasonbroomer]

T53 Axis AGS

Further good news is that we have figured out the air doctrine settings so that we can start getting sufficient fighters in the air to reach the Soviet bombers. This battle is taken from Vet's turn as the VSS is only flying then

T53 At least air war is solved.png (2.19 MiB) Viewed 1029 times

The turkey shoots can really start now .

In the south we move aggressively forward, I am expecting some knock backs as a result but I must keep my offensive here to time table. Vet has abandoned Stalino, so we encircle the fortification left there. We could have taken it this turn but isolating it means that it will surrender next turn and the precious railyard won't get trashed.

T53 AGS expecting some knock backs.png (2.07 MiB) Viewed 1029 times

Remember, experienced troops suffer far fewer retreat losses than inexperienced troops. The German paratrooper units are too small to be particularly effective on the offensive but are gold when defending.

We keep plugging away at the Red Army

T53 Losses.png (745.48 KiB) Viewed 1029 times

Keeping Soviet losses above 100k each turn during 1942 will ensure that they will have manpower deficits and prevent their army from swelling. This has been a key focus for me since the spring offensive commenced. Picking up 150k this turn is a nice result, especially as nothing fancy happened, just continual slugging local attacks. Bish, bash, bosh.

[Veterin]

T53 - Soviet Perspective

1

1.png (2.23 MiB) Viewed 995 times

It pains be deeply but I’m going to have to abandon Bryansk and all the favourable terrain there this turn. I run the risk of being encircled from both Smolensk and Orel direction and I have a lot of my best troops in this area.

2

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This is after I’ve moved most of my units. I only made 2 counter attacks east of Smolensk as they were close allowing me enough MPs to fall back as well as favourable terrain which I need to anchor my defence. The red salient of units you see south of Kaluga is because the Guard rifle division right at the southern tip could only make it that far (it was attacked the previous turn). I’ll fall back slightly from here but I want to hold the river/forest terrain where possible.

3

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The vast openness of the motherland means some sectors are sparsely populated by both sides. We both just keep flipping the same hexes each turn as neither of us have the strength (or MPs) to advance in the area. There are a lot of mobile Axis allies in the area so I’m starting to probe more where I can safely do so. I did a lot of recon of this sector this turn.

As I want to have enough MP to escape, I did a hasty attack and it was much closer than I had expected. A single Hungarian cavalry brigade did well against the elite soviet cavalry and tank corps. Once that attack was made, there was a stack of 2 units that had a defensive CV less than 3. I didn’t have full recon but I knew it must be something weak to attack. Turns out it was the rail repair unit which you can see moved north following the displacement move. This would set back JB slightly on his rail repair but it also gives me an idea of how much rail he’s repaired so far. This one was likely working it’s way up the double rails east of Kharkov.

4

4.png (1.58 MiB) Viewed 995 times

So many lop sided battles here with heavy Soviet losses and very few Axis losses. The southern axis advance has paused this turn no doubt to rebuild CPP for their attacks next turn. There are some weakened Axis infantry I can attack this turn but at the same time, I need to start falling back. If the northern advance continues, my units holding the river further south will be encircled.

I forgot to take a screenshot at the end of my turn but I’ve pulled back behind the large river across the front. Given I’ve got a wider front to cover now my forces have less strong points now with the exception of the area around Rostov.

[M60A3TTS]

Is this a standard game or no early end? TBs locked or no?

[Light4bettor]

no early end, TBs unlocked--

[Veterin]

no early end, TBs unlocked--

Its a standard game so will end if there are any early victory/defeats on VPs. TBs unlocked (which i must say really gives Axis a nice buff imo!)

[jasonbroomer]

no early end, TBs unlocked--

Its a standard game so will end if there are any early victory/defeats on VPs. TBs unlocked (which i must say really gives Axis a nice buff imo!)

It certainly helps the Axis in the winter. Getting those infantry divisions from France to the front really helps, and in April '42 you get fresh panzer divisions with full TOEs on the map.

I'm now finding that I can swap out German troops for Italian ones in Nth Africa. 80% of land troops will surrender when this TB falls, Italian troops will surrender fairly soon thereafter so it makes sense to lose them in Africa. A modest but incremental advantage. As Vet has already pointed out, I have the Africa MD on the eastern front. I actually pulled it out of France before it even became the African Korps.

Swapping out divisions from the front to TBs is a real pain for both sides as rarely can you micro manage them to be as damaged as they were historically. Much easier to cancel these and flip out trashed units.

However, I think that the Soviets have a real advantage in 1941, keeping TBs at 90% and drawing out divisions from TB to the map. I'm not sure how many they get doing this but 8-10 additional divisions makes a very significant early difference and any advantage compounds over time. It makes an early Axis victory difficult. I certainly found the defences to be thicker and broader than in my first game which was with TBs locked.

In '41, the Axis keeps some nice units which disappear to TBs from turn 15 or so on. These include the SS Cavalry and the 2 RFSS brigades. These are great fun but not game changing.

This is my first game with TBs unlocked. Initially, I was hesitant about doing too much but I have now got the hang of them. I could have been more aggressive in '41 and taken various infantry regiments as SUs, which are very useful.

[Veterin]

The main benefit to Soviets of unlocked TB is you can cancel forced movements. There's nothing worse than having a rifle division promote to guard status and then you can't create a guard corps from it as it's due to move to another TB at some point (most Soviet units have various TB movement dates too!). Even worse, it still counts towards your guard %.

That being said, dealing with that headache or 5.5k AFVs + many more Motorised divisions is probably worse.

Either way, regardless of which side i play next i'll continue playing with TB unlocked. It's a fun and interesting part of the game.

[jasonbroomer]

TB Analysis

These numbers are to turn 60 (we are currently at t65). My WE TB was slammed on t61, as although the manual says the ground requirement goes to 425, it actually goes to 475. A huge difference and one that has placed me in crisis mode!

It sometimes feels as if the whole world is against you when you play the Axis...

My averages have been:

WE (g) 111.6%, (a) 121.4%, (air n) 118.0% This has given 13VPs and surrendered 1VP (from dropping ground to 99% for a single turn!)

Norway (g) 107.0%, (a) 156%, (N) 106.6% - no VPs

Finland (g) 101.7%, (a) 109.9% +2VPs and -1VP (caused by the 3 Finnish corps arriving after Leningrad falls)

Garrison 135% - Romanian speakers only!

Nth Africa (g) 107%, (a) 115%, (N) 128% - only one Nth Africa campaign delay

Italy (g) 106%, (a) 98.7%, (N) 116.9% - no impact

Balkans (g) 106%, (a) 156% +1 VP

As can be seen I have not gamed these TBs though I know that some areas provide no possibility of VPs. We have house ruled that leaders/HQs can't be moved around as these are not WAD. I shall pull Romel out of Africa around the time that he actually left. I have moved transports out of TBs (I know there lack of impact on TBs are not WAD) but I have compensated with an over allocation of bombers, largely for moral reasons! Actually, transports don't make a huge difference, especially once the ME262s come on line. The Italian transport are the most useful since they have extended range. This really hasn't made much difference against Vet since I have not strayed too far from rail heads.

WE has been the most productive but as the largest TB this makes sense.

There is much latency in the Axis TBs, which with a little care can be restructured far more efficiently. I recommend pulling any FBs marked as Jabos back to reserve and retraining them as fighters before sending them back to TB, otherwise they won't do anything useful. If you take Leningrad, send back one of the Finnish divisions, or possibly even two, and release some Germans from this TB. There is one very good Finnish division which is definitely worth keeping. Finland does not have the manpower though to keep assaulting with these units.

[Stamb]

you have to check TBs requirements in the editor, manual can not be trusted
same applies for the Soviets TBs

[Veterin]

TB Analysis

These numbers are to turn 60 (we are currently at t65). My WE TB was slammed on t61, as although the manual says the ground requirement goes to 425, it actually goes to 475. A huge difference and one that has placed me in crisis mode!

It sometimes feels as if the whole world is against you when you play the Axis...

I can assure you being surprised when the TB requirements doesn't align to the manual isn't an Axis only feature. Only way to find the actual requirements is to search in the editor

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 7&t=387578

[jasonbroomer]

TB Analysis

These numbers are to turn 60 (we are currently at t65). My WE TB was slammed on t61, as although the manual says the ground requirement goes to 425, it actually goes to 475. A huge difference and one that has placed me in crisis mode!

It sometimes feels as if the whole world is against you when you play the Axis...

I can assure you being surprised when the TB requirements doesn't align to the manual isn't an Axis only feature. Only way to find the actual requirements is to search in the editor

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 7&t=387578

Yeah, I saw your warning earlier, though going through the editor is a bit of nightmare for the axis with so many TBs. This huge uplift in WE finally got me to do it!

[jasonbroomer]

T54 Axis

Halder gets the chop from OKH

T55 Halder gets the chop.png (1.93 MiB) Viewed 748 times

In the centre, I think you'll find that these are German woods...

T54 AGC I think youll finnd those woods belong to Germany.png (2.38 MiB) Viewed 748 times

Mmm, this maybe a beer and pretzels game when you're playing Soviets but don't try to play the Axis while drinking wine

T54 AGC Dont drink wine and play this game, Model I thought had been moved up but remains out of range.png (2.11 MiB) Viewed 748 times

Here I put together a promising and important attack by Model and then forget to move Model to within 5 hexes. Ouch!

This was an important battle as I must keep the momentum going having gained the Bryansk woods. I am beginning to think that I am unlikely to make much further progress toward Moscow, all 16 guard corps are blocking my way, it's all very depressing. I need to the wine to provide me with courage to keep attacking. How the hell I am I going to take Vyazma?

[jasonbroomer]

T54 Axis AGCS

This is the picture following Vet's withdrawal from the Bryansk woods

T54AGC Brynask woods taken without a fight, tick off objective for year.png (2.63 MiB) Viewed 740 times

its nice to finally capture this ground but decent targets are difficult to come by, nevertheless we manage to dig out a couple of targets

T54 AGCS we find a few targets.png (2.75 MiB) Viewed 740 times

I fear that this just won't be enough

[jasonbroomer]

T54 Axis AGS

The Soviets withdraw from the Donets basin. Vorenzth looks well defended so we won't detour to contest that area and continue with our plan to take Rostov with 1st Pz in red

T54 AGS The Soviets withdraw.png (1.28 MiB) Viewed 734 times

Our formations need a rest as CPP is diminished

T54 AGS CPP pretty low, could do with a rest.png (2.15 MiB) Viewed 734 times

however, I don;t want the Soviets to dig in behind this river line, so we continue to attack

T54 AGS I dont want him digging in here.png (2.24 MiB) Viewed 734 times

Wee started this offensive 2 months ago and it is now beginning to feel a little tired.

[Veterin]

T54 - Soviet Perspective

1

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2

2.png (181.83 KiB) Viewed 704 times

3

3.png (294.76 KiB) Viewed 704 times

A much quieter turn with Axis forces repositioning and rebuilding for their next offensive. My on-map forces remained at 5.4m despite the lower losses this turn as manpower went into to replacing/refitting existing units. I still have a lot of damaged units but Axis do as well to some extent (probably more from moving around the map rather than actual combat with the Soviets!)

4

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A reserve activation of a guard cavalry corps saves the day here. JB has been content sitting on his well-entrenched defences around Leningrad/Novgorod but I have noticed an increase in troop concentration around Novgorod and I can see other divisions in the second row that will likely be used to attack soon. There are definitely some fresh units in the area as well as a thinning of defences in some other areas. Whilst the line is relatively static, this will change quickly for either side if we are pushed out of our lvl 2-3 fortifications.

[Veterin]

T54 - Soviet Perspective Cont...

5

5.png (3.08 MiB) Viewed 703 times

Screenshot at the start of my turn. The Bryansk salient that I evacuated last turn has all been captured now. Last turn I moved 2 armies forwards across the river to create some pressure around Voronezh last turn and it looks like it’s been too effective as there is a build up of Axis forces east of Orel now. I expected the push to be north towards Tula but perhaps JB is prioritising Voronezh as it still yields bonus VPs as well as being lighter on defence.

6

6.png (3.29 MiB) Viewed 703 times

Screenshot at the end of my turn. I have shifted armies further east as I expect the next Axis push to be towards Voronezh. If that does occur, I will put pressure on Orel from the north with what assets I have in the area.

7

7.png (1.52 MiB) Viewed 703 times

Nothing exciting happening down here. Most Axis forces have had at least 2 turns refitting/rebuilding CPP so the next turn will likely be explosive. I am more or less hugging the Donets with stronger defence towards the Rostov end. My defences on the northern side of the Donets are relatively weak although they are defending a lower value area with no VPs and fewer railways.

[jasonbroomer]

T56 Axis AGC

I'm now resigned to battering my way up the Smolensk-Vyazma road, I just don't see any alternative and this will be very bloody. Moscow remains a pipe dream, all I can realistically expect is to put as much space as I can between Smolensk and the front line for when the Soviet offensive inevitably gets under way. With luck, I may be able to hold my own over 1943 (I've never played that far so have no idea what is in store for me ) but I'm sure that I'll be on the back foot by '44, if not before.

Currently I have 645 VPs, Rostov is on the menu for 10, Tula (16) and Voronezh are possibles but I know i won't get any time bonuses for the latter. In the last turn or two I have decided against a frontal assault on Voronezh, this might give me an extra VP or two but it is likely to be expensive in manpower and my supply routes are not really going to help. My thinking is that Tula will be easier and brings a guaranteed 6 extra VPs.

675-685 VPs is short of where I wanted to be his year, more worrying are the advances that Vet has made towards Leningrad and, indeed the Baltic states. I have given up a lot of decent defensive terrain. This will make any attempt to hold onto Smolensk doubly difficult. Shifting entrenched corps, never mind guard corps, is a real problem. It's possible but takes a lot of resources. I can still use my mobility in the open ground to the south, but any progress in the north and centre will be done at a crawl. OKH spirits have fallen in recent turns, despite the success the of clearing the Bryansk woods, there is still so much to do and already we are at high summer. In 2 months time, Stalin will be releasing a huge 450k of fresh reserves and while we have been keeping the Red Army under control, it will begin to surge thereafter.

Heyho, let's stop stewing in our own juices and press on

T56 a AGC Perfect.png (2.78 MiB) Viewed 646 times

That's perfect, I just weighted that attack correctly - in fact I very nearly lost but this is what I was going for -

T56 a AGC that's why it was perfect.png (2.61 MiB) Viewed 646 times

With all those triple stacked units behind them, 2 of those Soviet riftle divisions have been forced into retreating in the open close to my front lines. Just what we wanted and the follow up attack led by armour is deadly. That's a very nice bounty and 23k goes into the pot.

We press on

T56 aAGC Just got through despite reserves.png (2.71 MiB) Viewed 646 times

That attack just got through despite the reserve activation, again it's nice to chew through 250 tanks. We didn't get far as expected, but at least we bled the Soviets nicely. Unfortunately, I think those Soviet guard corps won't be idle in their turn

[jasonbroomer]

T56 Axis AGC continued


We continue to probe along the line, looking to find weak links and lo and behold

T56 AGC I think we have found the soft spot.png (3.23 MiB) Viewed 641 times

We seem to have stumbled into a soft spot. Can we break through here? There is only an unoccupied FZ in front of us. Can we make a 3 hex gap? Firstly we need to shift that tank corps from the woods

T56 AGC Damn.png (2.41 MiB) Viewed 641 times

Damn, a pesky activation, let's try again

T56 AGC So we try again.png (2.47 MiB) Viewed 641 times

That's better, the adrenaline is beginning to pump now. That 16 CV cavalry corps should be easy to shift. "Houston we have a hole" yes, yes, yes

[jasonbroomer]

t56 AGC continued

Now how can we best exploit this gap? We have two motorised divisions that have decent MPs plus a couple more armoured units. Behind the destroyed Soviet front line, there are no reserves. it gets better, there are HQs galore, all standing undefended.

We have a choice, do we thrust on towards Moscow, we get get into the heavy woods over the Nara, or do we swing to the left towards Vyazma and batter down those HQs. This is a tough decision.

We take time to think about this. In the end we decide to swing to the flanks. Pressing on a further 50 miles towards Moscow is attractive but actually capturing this difficult terrain isn't that helpful long term (as there is so much more to do to get to Moscow) and will place pressure on our supply network. It is also very risky and we could get cut off.

By swinging to either flank, we can only achieve a partial envelopment but we hit the Soviet HQs hard and will doubtless force a general retreat. We may even get Vyazma, okay it has no VPs attached to it but it is strategically important. Tula would also become very vulnerable. Mmm nice.

So we start to our swing to the NE

T56 AGC displacing generals towards the Axis.png (2.4 MiB) Viewed 635 times

No generals killed by they displace towards us! We do another attack while we think things through

T56 AGC Nice attack, can we also displace Vatutin as well, perhaps we already have done.png (2.53 MiB) Viewed 635 times

Hey, that's Vatutin, he must be in one of the highlighted HQs in the first screen shot. Vatutin is definitely an elite Soviet general, removing him from play would be a total boon. We abandon any lingering thoughts of a deep thrust towards Moscow and decide to concentrate on the HQs.

Firstly, we try to surround those 3 HQs that displaced towards our lines. We cunningly advance in regimental order, so our ZOC doesn't displace them again.

T56 c AGC We try a sneaky surround but even regiments displace, KIA Fedynuinsky.png (2.79 MiB) Viewed 635 times

Ah, ZOCs clearly don't matter for displacement and those 3 HQs displace again to somewhere more sensible. However, Fedynuinsky falls, a top decile Soviet leader.

[jasonbroomer]

T56 AGC continued

Now, we think very hard about how far we can advance and how many HQs we can displace. We decide to regiment a MD, regiments are just as effective as divisions for the job and if one ends up cut off, well that's just too bad and no disaster.

We start to pop the HQs

T56 AGC General killing time, Govorov is a good one.png (2.6 MiB) Viewed 627 times

We get two kills, including the ugly looking brute Govorov. No Vatutin but still a top 10% hit.

I'm sure that we displaced Vatutin once or even twice, so we chance our arm and attack a guard corps

T56 c AGC Perhaps we didnot displace Vatutin.png (2.44 MiB) Viewed 627 times

Opps perhaps we din't displace him, since he assigned artillery to this battle. Perhaps he is in that HQ to the right of my 4-4 motorised regiment. I just have the legs to displace that final HQ with the regiment. We have I think a 1 in 6 chance of killing Vatutin (if indeed that is his HQ) and we are almost guaranteed to lose the regiment. On balance I decide against chancing it.

Instead, we strengthen our break through as best we can.

T56 AGC Final position.png (3.46 MiB) Viewed 627 times

We decide to hold back a couple of panzer divisions in case our breakthrough gets cut off and we need to bust it open again next turn.

I enjoyed that.