Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Good idea focusing on the aircraft factories. I was thinking of focusing on the bases with the most stuff to maximize protection. Focus on keeping the aircraft factories alive so the planes can protect bases.

I agree to keep the Home Islands AA there & move other stuff to the front line.

Lots of good stuff discussed. Thanks.

I'd go further, move all the AA to Japan.

Do you really care, come '44 and '45, about anything outside the innermost positions getting bombed? I know I don't.

For the record, I looked up the upgrade path for IJ flak.

The 10cm guns upgrade to the 12cm guns on 9/43, then there's no real upgrades for IJ flak until 9/45 (!), when the Japanese copy of the Bofors arrives too late to actually help with anything. There's also a twin barrelled version of the 20mm arriving in 1/44, but it's only a marginal improvement.

There's also a good smattering of DP guns in the various coastal fortresses in Japan proper, so it makes sense to concentrate your AA units on the inland industrial hexes.

[Zorch]

When do you start building forts in the Home Islands, and where?

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: Zorch

When do you start building forts in the Home Islands, and where?

I started about 15 or so months ago. Most of the big cities are done at level 6. Tokyo is close to level 7 where it'll stop. The rest are at varying levels.

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Good idea focusing on the aircraft factories. I was thinking of focusing on the bases with the most stuff to maximize protection. Focus on keeping the aircraft factories alive so the planes can protect bases.

I agree to keep the Home Islands AA there & move other stuff to the front line.

Lots of good stuff discussed. Thanks.

I'd go further, move all the AA to Japan.

Do you really care, come '44 and '45, about anything outside the innermost positions getting bombed? I know I don't.

For the record, I looked up the upgrade path for IJ flak.

The 10cm guns upgrade to the 12cm guns on 9/43, then there's no real upgrades for IJ flak until 9/45 (!), when the Japanese copy of the Bofors arrives too late to actually help with anything. There's also a twin barrelled version of the 20mm arriving in 1/44, but it's only a marginal improvement.

There's also a good smattering of DP guns in the various coastal fortresses in Japan proper, so it makes sense to concentrate your AA units on the inland industrial hexes.

Now that's an interesting thought. Most outer defenses really don't need AA. It just sucks supply for no real reason. I have some time so I'll ponder what to pull into the Home Islands.

[Mike Solli]

22 Aug 43

Sub War

A nice day for me. Right off the bat, the I-9 got the CVE Corregidor in her sights and hit her with 3 of 6 torpedoes. A week ago, the I-6 put two torpedoes into her but she survived and was limping back to a port. Down she went this time with 27 Hellcats and Avengers aboard. [:D]

The I-23 caught another Luckenbach and put a torpedo into her along the route to and from San Francisco. She's still afloat, but I doubt she makes port.

5 Fleet
4 Fleet

Nothing to report.

SE Fleet

Not a lot going on here really. Five CAs and a CL bombarded Kavieng to no avail. They caused 6 runway and 1 port hits. I'm sending 300 mines to Kavieng as a little gift for the next Allied TF that visits.

KB1 is 1 hex away from Truk. Akagi and Kaga are actually repairing their damage! Soryu and Shokaku are completely repaired with Zuikaku ready to go when she arrives at Truk tomorrow. Also, Ryujo will be fully repaired tomorrow and Hosho is also available if needed. That's 273 aircraft capacity if needed.

The Allied bombers hit the SNLF south of Kavieng again.

Base damage is coming down:

Manus: 81-4-0, down 19
Kavieng: 83-97-19, up 3 overall, boo
Rabaul: 49-51-0, down 34
Talasea: 0-97-29, down 7

SRA

The oil laden Std-A TK torpedoed off Jesselton yesterday sank. [8|]

Burma

The 1 and 2 Tank Divisions arrived at Warazup today and will do a shock attack tomorrow. In the air, 6x 2E bombers were shot down while trying to bomb the tank regiment there.

China

Repairing the disabled squads...

Other Stuff

The Ki-43-IV R&D advanced to 3/45 (will become operational 2/44).

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

22 Aug 43

The 1 and 2 Tank Divisions arrived at Warazup today and will do a shock attack tomorrow. In the air, 6x 2E bombers were shot down while trying to bomb the tank regiment there.

Those are two units, arguably your best, that need an AA air regiment to protect them. Your IJA heavy infantry squads can also benefit from having an AA unit dedicated to them too when near the front lines.

Especially fighting in Burma it is hard to recover morale.

In addition, having some decent AA at your large inland airbases really helps keep them functioning.

Any key defensive position needs IJA heavy infantry squads, artillery 15cm and greater, AA, and even a couple of radar sets. Tanks are great too...especially as fire brigades because the Allies can move their troops incredibly fast.

Take some time now to look at how you expect to fight across Thailand/Vietnam.

Having the lion share of your AA on Honshu doesn't do much if the Allies use their bombers against your frontline defensive position and ignores your economy.

Economic wise, if you have fuel and oil on Honshu, the lion share your supply generation is concentrated in three cities. Your vehicle and dockyards are also concentrated. However, even bombing resources on Honshu will grant VPs...so there is no shortage of key spots to defend.

Even Yoko and Hiroshima, which get great TOE boosts (yoko gets around 100 dp guns...1 day at a time) aren't all that effective without numerous radar sets and other AA units helping them in my experience.

No easy answers at all... nice work on the CVE![:)]

[Mike Solli]

Hi Lowpe. As always, more to think about. [:D] The one advantage I have in Burma is air supremacy over my troops. I have a lot of experienced IJAAF fighter units there that shred the Brits regardless of what they send my way. There's been no fighting (on the ground or air) recently because of the monsoon. I have very little supply flowing right now.

My intent is to beat up the Chindits then pull those tanks back to Rangoon to recover. My defensive line is currently along the Burma-India border. I'm slowly pulling it back. When the monsoon ends and supply begins to flow again, I expect the Brits to start attacking. I have a good chunk of my infantry upgraded to the 1943 infantry. Only 1 division left to upgrade and it's heading back to Rangoon to upgrade now. Not sure how many are 1943 divisions, but I'll check later today.

That's a good idea about the AA. There's a fair amount in Burma, but it's all back with the air bases. I'll look at moving some up.

Yeah, lots to think about with the Home Islands defense....

[Lowpe]

Once last thought, never mentioned about AA is the die roll...this is a GG game and the die roll can crush you. Having more units in place tends to normalize the results.

This is really evident with radar sets, but is also true for AA.

PS: At some point you won't have air superiority, or time to rest troops so be careful.

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Having the lion share of your AA on Honshu doesn't do much if the Allies use their bombers against your frontline defensive position and ignores your economy.

We'll need to agree to disagree here. I get where you're coming from, but in the late-game every Allied bomber attacking ground troops is a little victory for Japan in that it's one less plane targeting factories.

You want the bombers to spend themselves against your frontline positions. If the Allies decide to throw their 4E's against ground units, they'll wreck the units, but a wrecked division is still a division, and Japan has plenty of them.

The single greatest protection for your ground units against bombing is terrain. Fighters help a lot, flak only slightly so, but being in x2 and x3 terrain works wonders for keeping units intact. Forts are an added bonus.

I will happily leave every unit on the map devoid of AA protection if it meant that I could be assured that B-29 squadrons striking industry on Honshu had to suffer 10% losses to flak and a two week downtime after every raid.

Anemic Japanese flak isn't going to save the an IJA Tank Division if the Allies send their 4E's against it, but concentrated it might just save enough supply and industry to keep the Empire trundling along a few weeks longer. A dozen AA units won't save the Burma Front if it comes crashing down, but it might give you a couple weeks production out of Osaka or Tokyo. What has more value to you?

The supply consideration is also a major factor that you should closely consider. AA fires every raid, and the supply consumption can add up immensely. I'd rather be spending the supply in Japan, where there's no cost involved in shipping it, than on the frontlines of Burma for example, where logistics are already difficult.

I'm already known for pretty radical views, so feel free to poke holes in my logic!

[Lokasenna]

20mm AA also supply sinks - each time they fire it eats supply.

It occurs to me that maybe I should stockpile those devices so my IJA/IJN units just don't get any and can't waste any supplies [:'(]

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

20mm AA also supply sinks - each time they fire it eats supply.

It occurs to me that maybe I should stockpile those devices so my IJA/IJN units just don't get any and can't waste any supplies [:'(]

I do … As you note, there are a number of devices like this that are just supply sinks. I turn them off on day 1 and THEN I work to upgrade to them. The 7.7 and 13 mm AA guns upgrade to the 20mm in a number of units … the 7.7 and 13 mm are even worse supply sinks as they not only can't hit anything due to altitude, but even if they do, they do no damage. [:@] [:@]

[Mike Solli]

As always, one simple question opens up a can of worms! [:D]

23 Aug 43

Sub War
5 Fleet
4 Fleet

Nothing to report.

SE Fleet

I see two Allied carrier TFs, on with CV Hornet and CVLs Independence and Princeton and the other with a couple of CVEs. Combined they have about 80 Hellcats and 44 bombers. They're staying put at Buka in an effort to stay alive under land-based fighter cover. There's about 70 fighters, primarily Thunderbolts and Lightnings, along with a few Corsairs and Wildcats. I'm thinking of sending in some DDs to try and get a few hits on something under the cover of night. Right now there's 25% moonlight and it's decreasing. I'm thinking 2-3 groups of DDs a day apart.

The bombers decided to hit Rabaul today. It's trashed. Also, there's some ground forces heading north toward the SNLF which is south of Kavieng. They're doomed. Actually, that whole area is doomed now. No more fighters south of Truk. I've begun pulling out some troops I don't want to let rot in the jungle. This includes the Guards Brigade, which is being flown out of Rabaul to Truk. The rest of the division is there. I want to form up the division and have that be the primary defender of Truk. Should Truk be bypassed, I'll pull it out of there.

I'm still sending single Anysu PB fast transports to all four bases. They're pretty good at getting in and out without issue.

KB1 arrived at Truk safely. Akagi and Kaga will need about 60 days of dock time at Truk before heading to the Home Islands to repair the major damage. There isn't much of that though.

Tomorrow, 3 CMs will drop 295 mines at Kavieng. They're traveling without escort because if any planes catch them, the escorts will just be more targets and the CMs carry depth charges so they can protect themselves from subs. I don't anticipate them running into surface ships. They should be in and out before sunrise.

SRA

Nothing to report.

Burma

The 1 and 2 Tank Divisions successfully shock attacked the 77 Chindit Brigade ousting it from Warazup. The tank divisions will head out to rail back to Rangoon.

China

I'm seeing my bombers killing squads now. Maybe that last attack hit him worse than I thought. Still gonna be awhile...

Other Stuff

Nothing exciting.

[Mike Solli]

24 Aug 43

Sub War

The RO-38 sank from wounds gained by DCs on 9 Aug by Shortlands Island. She'd been limping back to port and didn't quite make it. [:(]

The waters around Truk were busy today. The Grouper took a depth charge and the Dutch O19 was driven to the surface by several DC hits, then sunk with gunfire.

5 Fleet
4 Fleet

Nothing to report.

SE Fleet

I heard sinking sounds at the beginning of the turn. No clue what it was. Maybe another of those YMS that visited Rabaul a few days back? The report of the RO-38 sinking was before the sinking sounds.

Manus and Kavieng were the targets of the Allied bombers today. Now, only Talasea is the only airfield that is close to being open. No matter. Those bases will probably never have a whole Japanese plane there again.

SRA
Burma

Nothing to report.

China

Japanese bombers destroyed 6 Chinese steps in Chungking. At that rate, I suspect it'll be somewhere after the turn of the century before the Chinese Army is eradicated from Chungking. [:D]

Other Stuff

I forgot to report that Ryujo completed repairs yesterday. Right now, I have Soryu, Shokaku, Ryujo and Hosho undamaged and Zuikaku with 3 sys damage. Shoho will be repaired in about a week, Kaga in ~40 days and Akagi in 60 days (plus major damage for the last two). Still a couple weeks on Hiyo.

[ny59giants]

Truk - How much Naval Support do you have? How many ARs?

How many ARs do you have available and how many are being converted?

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: ny59giants_MatrixForum

Truk - How much Naval Support do you have? How many ARs?

How many ARs do you have available and how many are being converted?

Oops, slipped my mind....

Naval support: 360
1 AR, the ARD

I have 8 ARs available with none building. I can get 4 more on their way to Truk next turn.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

20mm AA also supply sinks - each time they fire it eats supply.

It occurs to me that maybe I should stockpile those devices so my IJA/IJN units just don't get any and can't waste any supplies [:'(]

I do … As you note, there are a number of devices like this that are just supply sinks. I turn them off on day 1 and THEN I work to upgrade to them. The 7.7 and 13 mm AA guns upgrade to the 20mm in a number of units … the 7.7 and 13 mm are even worse supply sinks as they not only can't hit anything due to altitude, but even if they do, they do no damage. [:@] [:@]

I tend to disagree with this strategy because it makes the unit more fragile.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Having the lion share of your AA on Honshu doesn't do much if the Allies use their bombers against your frontline defensive position and ignores your economy.

We'll need to agree to disagree here. I get where you're coming from, but in the late-game every Allied bomber attacking ground troops is a little victory for Japan in that it's one less plane targeting factories....


I'm already known for pretty radical views, so feel free to poke holes in my logic!

Well, normally when I have seen Allied players use this strategy they hit your runways and ports at the front too...speeding up the Allied advance.

Not to mention the planes become super tough beasts with very experienced pilots...from all the front line bombing.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

My DL is 9/13 and is always up there. With the mouse over, I see 682k troops and the combat said 380k. Either way, it's a bunch, but I'm starting to whittle down the forts, which is the main goal right now.

I use a Mac with the HD partitioned running Windows 7. Not sure how to run the game in a window though. That's beyond my capability. [:D] I reduced the troop v troop and bombardment delays from 1.0 sec to 0.2 sec. We'll see how that works, but it'll probably be a week before I launch another DA.

You should believe the combat report. I wasn't paying close enough attention and thought we were talking about a base "over there", not a base that you're currently fighting in.

The summary numbers at the top of the combat report are, so far as I know, always 100% accurate. Always. The AV that is listed will not be "actual" AV but effective raw AV, which includes the fraction of support troops.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

20mm AA also supply sinks - each time they fire it eats supply.

It occurs to me that maybe I should stockpile those devices so my IJA/IJN units just don't get any and can't waste any supplies [:'(]

I do … As you note, there are a number of devices like this that are just supply sinks. I turn them off on day 1 and THEN I work to upgrade to them. The 7.7 and 13 mm AA guns upgrade to the 20mm in a number of units … the 7.7 and 13 mm are even worse supply sinks as they not only can't hit anything due to altitude, but even if they do, they do no damage. [:@] [:@]

I tend to disagree with this strategy because it makes the unit more fragile.

By how much? A few dozen devices at most in a division, out of a pool of 800+? That's less than 5% more fragile.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

20mm AA also supply sinks - each time they fire it eats supply.

It occurs to me that maybe I should stockpile those devices so my IJA/IJN units just don't get any and can't waste any supplies [:'(]

I do … As you note, there are a number of devices like this that are just supply sinks. I turn them off on day 1 and THEN I work to upgrade to them. The 7.7 and 13 mm AA guns upgrade to the 20mm in a number of units … the 7.7 and 13 mm are even worse supply sinks as they not only can't hit anything due to altitude, but even if they do, they do no damage. [:@] [:@]

I tend to disagree with this strategy because it makes the unit more fragile.

true.
In stock on a standard ID, we're talking 18 devices out of a total of 1000, so about a 2% loss (this is a rough average of several ID TOE's). The LC on these useless items is 4. Ceiling is 2000 ft. Anti-Arm=1 Anti-soft = 0.
So to add 2% of the device number to the ID, I am going to spend supply with almost 0% chance of actually inflicting any damage any time this unit is attacked.
The question is how much supply do you spend and we know that "it depends" is the correct answer. 72 supply/turn is a standard guess, but it is just a guess.
I don't think it is a big deal either way, but I do look for every little supply savings I can find, so ....