OT: Corona virus

[Canoerebel]

Dang. It's not a dig at Europeans, encircled. It was just that a number of Europeans posted here today with views of the US apparently shaped by CNN et al. Those views weren't, I think, accurate so I and some others tried to give the correct info and context. I don't know how trying to give a correct presentation is a dig at Europeans.

ORIGINAL: Encircled

Looks like thats a dig at the Europeans.

Cheers for that.

[Encircled]

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm still waiting for actual facts to back up that the CNN report was false.

I'm sure its got lost in the squabbling but as you and others have said it was, I assumed you have something to back that up.

My concern is purely that if you don't have at what we have over here, then the virus will kill many more of you than it would normally, and I can't see any justification for that.

[JohnDillworth]

A local pastor will be holding Easter services next Sunday morning. Cars will park in his farm pasture. His broadcast will be carried by Facebook (or possibly a local radio station). Attendees will remain in their cars with windows up.

That's one way to do church.

Shhhh......I've invested the family fortune in drive in movie theaters. They are going to make a big comeback. [:D]

[Canoerebel]

[To Encircled:]I did. I posted at length. The first mistake was that Georgia supposedly allowed religious services. It doesn't. The citation/text was given earlier today or yesterday here.

Also, as I noted yesterday and today, CNN misrepresented what the governor of Georgia said. I've posted at length about that and Cap Mandrake, a physician has confirmed it.

My impression from what you and others said in here a number of times in here this a.m. is that you all think lots of states are doing counterproductive things, that people are going to church when they actually aren't, and that the more rural states are just not doing well. So I went through data and took a lot of time to present what's actually going on. I posted that here, a few hours back. And many rural states are doing better than NYC, many of them much better.

So the information has been given in here at length.

[Cap Mandrake]

Here is one Chinese study published in electronic format only in English on March 4.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... ymptomatic

It takes time for consensus to form..for data to be reviewed..for studies to be critically reviewed. This is how it works. This is why the CDC updated their advice on March 30. Only last week they began advising ALL people wear masks in public, for example. Given this standard the head of NIH is a liar because he told the public the great majority did NOT need to wear masks. They weren't lying, they were trying to give the best information they had at the time.

This is why some nimrod at CNN "fact checking" the Governor is full of s***. There was no consensus on this in January. CNN is a giant alimentary canal and most of the "news" comes out of the downstream end.

[durnedwolf]

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Here is the likely source of confusion. The CDC published an update on March 30 which clarified new information on "pre-symptomatic" and "asymptomatic". The former means individuals known to have the virus in their respiratory tract or gut with no symptoms YET.

The latter are those individuals proven to have the virus but NEVER have symptoms. The presence and size of the latter group has recently been better delineated. The Governor said the state medical director told him it was a "game changer". That is largely true. If there is a large reservoir of persistently infectious yet entirely asymptomatic patients the damn thing is MORE dangerous.

Of course, being a science guy I figured this out myself in January when I saw the Chinese data which seemed to largely skip children (who probably harbor more asymptomatic cases). The Governor is not a science guy and he had to wait for his advisers to clarify it.

CDC link regarding revisions made on March 30: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/clinical-guidance-management-patients.html

[durnedwolf]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

[To Encircled:]I did. I posted at length. The first mistake was that Georgia supposedly allowed religious services. It doesn't. The citation/text was given earlier today or yesterday here.

Also, as I noted yesterday and today, CNN misrepresented what the governor of Georgia said. I've posted at length about that and Cap Mandrake, a physician has confirmed it.

My impression from what you and others said in here a number of times in here this a.m. is that you all think lots of states are doing counterproductive things, that people are going to church when they actually aren't, and that the more rural states are just not doing well. So I went through data and took a lot of time to present what's actually going on. I posted that here, a few hours back. And many rural states are doing better than NYC, many of them much better.

So the information has been given in here at length.

Regarding the attendance of church being allowed in some states. I would note that Georgia has imposed stipulations per the article that maintain some degree of separation...

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2020/04/georgia-and-florida-governors-finally-issued-shelter-in-place-orders-but-not-for-churches/

[Cap Mandrake]

Yes, that's it. They explain right at the top why they updated for "new information".

Q: What are the qualifications for the fact checker job at CNN?

A: You are sleeping with a producer but you are still too ugly for daytime or prime time TV

[JohnDillworth]

t's not. Most Americans simply don't know anything about the political makeup of Germany or any similarities that exist with the US.

The Lander system has worked well there as early on the regional governments all activated local labs for testing and isolating people with the virus.

There are certainly similarities between the states and the lander system. Hard to define or prove but I do believe there is such a thing as national charter. Americans have an overdeveloped independence streak that often, but not always, serves them well. I believe the German nation character is somewhat different. I am reminded of the old cold war joke that the Germans even made communism work.

[durnedwolf]

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Here is one Chinese study published in electronic format only in English on March 4.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... ymptomatic

It takes time for consensus to form..for data to be reviewed..for studies to be critically reviewed. This is how it works. This is why the CDC updated their advice on March 30. Only last week they began advising ALL people wear masks in public, for example. Given this standard the head of NIH is a liar because he told the public the great majority did NOT need to wear masks. They weren't lying, they were trying to give the best information they had at the time.

This is why some nimrod at CNN "fact checking" the Governor is full of s***. There was no consensus on this in January. CNN is a giant alimentary canal and most of the "news" comes out of the downstream end.

Jeepers Cap, that's a very dim and anal view of a news network. [:D][:D]

BTW - I watch a lot of media - CNN included. Fox included. ABC included. BBC World News included. <--- Wow, I might have a here-to-fore unrecognized addiction... [8|]

[Cap Mandrake]

I am reminded of the old cold war joke that the Germans even made communism work.

[:D][:D]

[durnedwolf]

I think that once the COVID-19 virus has come to pass there will be a few medical phrases that will go extinct...

Like bend over and cough.

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Here is the likely source of confusion. The CDC published an update on March 30 which clarified new information on "pre-symptomatic" and "asymptomatic". The former means individuals known to have the virus in their respiratory tract or gut with no symptoms YET.

The latter are those individuals proven to have the virus but NEVER have symptoms. The presence and size of the latter group has recently been better delineated. The Governor said the state medical director told him it was a "game changer". That is largely true. If there is a large reservoir of persistently infectious yet entirely asymptomatic patients the damn thing is MORE dangerous.

Of course, being a science guy I figured this out myself in January when I saw the Chinese data which seemed to largely skip children (who probably harbor more asymptomatic cases). The Governor is not a science guy and he had to wait for his advisers to clarify it.

A question for you: I read something that the TB vaccine give something like an 80% protection against this new corona virus, is that now given to children?

Summary: VPM1002, a vaccine candidate based on the tuberculosis BCG vaccine, may be effective in protecting against COVID-19. Previous studies in mice have shown the BCG vaccine is effective at protecting against several respiratory viral infections. If effective against coronavirus, researchers hope the vaccine can bridge the time gap until a specific SARS-CoV-2 vaccine is available.

Source: Max Planck Institute

The course of the corona pandemic will strongly depend on how quickly medications or vaccines against the SARS co-virus 2 can be developed. In at least one Phase III study, researchers want to investigate whether the vaccine candidate VPM1002, originally developed against tuberculosis by scientists at the Max Planck Institute for Infection Biology, is also effective against infection with SARS-CoV-2. The large-scale study is to be carried out at several hospitals in Germany and will include older people and health care workers. Both groups are particularly at risk of the disease. VPM1002 could thus help bridge the time until a vaccine specifically effective against SARS co-virus 2 is available.

VPM1002 is based on a vaccine called BCG, which was developed at the beginning of the 20th century. Studies on mice show that the BCG vaccine can protect not only against tuberculosis but also against viral infections of the respiratory tract. Accordingly, mice suffering from influenza have fewer influenza A viruses in their blood if they had previously been vaccinated with BCG. The animals thus showed less damage to the lungs.

According to further studies, vaccination with BCG also increases the animals’ resistance to other viruses (e.g. herpes type 1 and 2). Apparently, a vaccination with BCG also activates the immune system against a viral infection. In this way, the vaccine reduces the risk of severe disease progression and thus lowers the death rate.

https://neurosciencenews.com/covid-19-b ... ine-15966/

Some of you may already be familiar with the BGC, short for bacillus Calmette-Guerin, which is supposed to provide defense against tuberculosis. Not gets this vaccine since tuberculosis isn’t as widespread as it used to be, especially in developed countries. The vaccine isn’t just used against tuberculosis, as it has become conventional immunotherapy for early-stage bladder cancer as well. And it’s thanks to its effects on the immunity that researchers are considering it as a potential therapy for COVID-19.

The idea is that an immune boost could raise the body’s defenses against pathogens like the new SARS-CoV-2 virus, and potentially defeat the infection faster.

The Australian government, in partnership with the World Health Organization (WHO), kicked off a six-month trial in Melbourne at the Murdoch Children’s Research Institute. Some 4,000 healthcare workers are included in the study that kicked of Monday, Bloomberg reported. They’ll be divided into two groups, one vaccinated against the flu and TB and the other just against the flu.

https://bgr.com/2020/04/03/coronavirus- ... -covid-19/

A research group at the University of Melbourne is setting up a BCG study among health care workers using the exact same protocol. Another research group at the University of Exeter will do a similar study in the elderly. And a team at the Max Planck Institute for Infection Biology last week announced that—inspired by Netea’s work—it will embark on a similar trial in elderly people and health workers with VPM1002, a genetically modified version of BCG that has not yet been approved for use against TB.

Eleanor Fish, an immunologist at the of the University of Toronto, says the vaccine probably won’t eliminate infections with the new coronavirus completely, but is likely to dampen its impact on individuals. Fish says she’d take the vaccine herself if she could get a hold of it, and even wonders whether it’s ethical to withhold its potential benefits from trial subjects in the placebo arm.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/03 ... oronavirus#

[witpqs]

This article contains additional background on past leaks of viruses from labs in China.
https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/15844/coronavirus-china-cover-up

[Canoerebel]

Hey, the Mother Jones article got it wrong. It states that attendees must maintain separation. In fact, gatherings are limited to 10 or less (allowing employees to be there as long as other regs are abided by). I posted the quote from a source yesterday, though that's about 15 pages back probably.

ORIGINAL: durnedwolf

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

[To Encircled:]I did. I posted at length. The first mistake was that Georgia supposedly allowed religious services. It doesn't. The citation/text was given earlier today or yesterday here.

Also, as I noted yesterday and today, CNN misrepresented what the governor of Georgia said. I've posted at length about that and Cap Mandrake, a physician has confirmed it.

My impression from what you and others said in here a number of times in here this a.m. is that you all think lots of states are doing counterproductive things, that people are going to church when they actually aren't, and that the more rural states are just not doing well. So I went through data and took a lot of time to present what's actually going on. I posted that here, a few hours back. And many rural states are doing better than NYC, many of them much better.

So the information has been given in here at length.

Regarding the attendance of church being allowed in some states. I would note that Georgia has imposed stipulations per the article that maintain some degree of separation...

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2020/04/georgia-and-florida-governors-finally-issued-shelter-in-place-orders-but-not-for-churches/

[Canoerebel]

Here's the post from yesterday.

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

This article contains additional background on past leaks of viruses from labs in China.
https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/15844/coronavirus-china-cover-up

Thank you.

[durnedwolf]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Hey, the Mother Jones article got it wrong. It states that attendees must maintain separation. In fact, gatherings are limited to 10 or less (allowing employees to be there as long as other regs are abided by). I posted the quote from a source yesterday, though that's about 15 pages back probably.

ORIGINAL: durnedwolf

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

[To Encircled:]I did. I posted at length. The first mistake was that Georgia supposedly allowed religious services. It doesn't. The citation/text was given earlier today or yesterday here.

Also, as I noted yesterday and today, CNN misrepresented what the governor of Georgia said. I've posted at length about that and Cap Mandrake, a physician has confirmed it.

My impression from what you and others said in here a number of times in here this a.m. is that you all think lots of states are doing counterproductive things, that people are going to church when they actually aren't, and that the more rural states are just not doing well. So I went through data and took a lot of time to present what's actually going on. I posted that here, a few hours back. And many rural states are doing better than NYC, many of them much better.

So the information has been given in here at length.

Regarding the attendance of church being allowed in some states. I would note that Georgia has imposed stipulations per the article that maintain some degree of separation...

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2020/04/georgia-and-florida-governors-finally-issued-shelter-in-place-orders-but-not-for-churches/

This article seems to counter what you are saying "allowed to have more than 10 people gathering in a single location unless there is at least six feet between each person at all times." It adds: "This rule applies to church services and funeral services," meaning, if social distancing can be maintained, they're allowed. " https://www.11alive.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/georgia-stay-at-home-coronavirus/85-471eff22-8675-47a5-82f7-c268b4d3d573

In regards to worship, there are many ways to do this. Heck - you could probably do a Facebook version of it. I think another option was parking lots where everyone stayed in the car and they "tuned" into the sermon by their phone. Radio - online - lots of options.

At the end of the day we should remember the intent of separation - which is to protect each other. I don't really care if you ride your bike, take a trip on a windy road in your car, go out for a picnic (with those living in your household). We should all be smart enough to figure out what we can and can't do while maintaining separation...

[Canoerebel]

You've veered off into perceptions that are utterly unrelated to anything I've said or implied.

Over and over again, a dozen or more times, I've said that all churches I know of including mine shut down three weeks ago. Nobody is gathering for church anywhere in Georgia, that I'm aware of.

I do not advocate churches meeting at this time. When I was involved in making the decision for my church, that's why we did what we did. Back then it was voluntary.

Our church does have Facebook messages from the pastor. He does them from home. I don't have Faceboook but most folks do.

All of this is working fine.

And, to boot, the Covid-19 numbers from Georgia have been, and continue to be, most encouraging. Ten mortalities yesterday. Three so far today. This for the 9th most populous state in the Union. I think the state is doing pretty well.

[Canoerebel]

My source was Channel 2 News out of Atlanta. I'll check that.