AE Air Issues and Air OOB Issues [OUTDATED]

[wworld7]

ORIGINAL: Captain Cruft

CV capable is not determined by slot anymore, it is a flag in the database. So you can apply it to as many aircraft as you like.

Stupid silly question: Does this mean you could have a CV capable B-17 & B-24's flying off CVE's?

[witpqs]

Sometimes when we're watching a movie my wife will ask me "can they do that?" And I'll reply "It's a movie, they can do whatever they want!" [:D]

[Captain Cruft]

ORIGINAL: flipperwasirish

ORIGINAL: Captain Cruft

CV capable is not determined by slot anymore, it is a flag in the database. So you can apply it to as many aircraft as you like.

Stupid silly question: Does this mean you could have a CV capable B-17 & B-24's flying off CVE's?

Yes if the scenario designer is silly, but then you could do that now using the hard-wired slots.

[wworld7]

ORIGINAL: Captain Cruft

ORIGINAL: flipperwasirish

ORIGINAL: Captain Cruft

CV capable is not determined by slot anymore, it is a flag in the database. So you can apply it to as many aircraft as you like.

Stupid silly question: Does this mean you could have a CV capable B-17 & B-24's flying off CVE's?

Yes if the scenario designer is silly, but then you could do that now using the hard-wired slots.

I am sure somebody will drink too much (if there is such a thing?) and create fire-bombing B-29 Task forces...

[bradfordkay]

It is certainly part of what impresses me about the crew that has been putting together WITP:AE. They're taking a great wargame and polishing it into a beautiful sheen. It's going to be harder and harder to wait until Origins next summer...

[pauk]

ORIGINAL: TheElf
OTS. Kamikazes have not been touched. Read some AAR's later in the war, they work. One thing we did that may help is alter AAA so that during attacks only AAA in the quadrant being approached may fire.

No, they don't work. Only if you set Zekes on max altitude, above Hellcats ceiling...

I guess you tried to say that kamis not been touched, but with new A2A combat routine some of them will FINALLY get trough?

[tabpub]

ORIGINAL: pauk

ORIGINAL: TheElf
OTS. Kamikazes have not been touched. Read some AAR's later in the war, they work. One thing we did that may help is alter AAA so that during attacks only AAA in the quadrant being approached may fire.

No, they don't work. Only if you set Zekes on max altitude, above Hellcats ceiling...

I guess you tried to say that kamis not been touched, but with new A2A combat routine some of them will FINALLY get trough?

Never say never; I have been hit by the bloody things, Herbie has been able to sneak some in. An LRcap is an iffy proposition, as weather can mess it up on occasion.
I just have to ask, do any of you (I haven't played IJ) tried a high/low split on the attacking groups? Works for me on conventional bombing runs most of the time it seems. Perhaps the altitude settings in AE will also help in this regard.

[DuckofTindalos]

Kamikazes WORK in stock WitP; I don't give a ***'s *** what Pauk says.

[pauk]

ORIGINAL: tabpub

Never say never; I have been hit by the bloody things, Herbie has been able to sneak some in. An LRcap is an iffy proposition, as weather can mess it up on occasion.
I just have to ask, do any of you (I haven't played IJ) tried a high/low split on the attacking groups? Works for me on conventional bombing runs most of the time it seems. Perhaps the altitude settings in AE will also help in this regard.

Hi Tabpub, yes, i always do everything i can do to maximise effect of the air attack.

I think you might be right with altitude settings. Perhaps that will help (and new changed A2A routine).

[pauk]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Kamikazes WORK in stock WitP; I don't give a ***'s *** what Pauk says.

Your employees will be delighted with your correspodention skills. You are just arrogant lyer. For the last time i will say you - leave me alone and please do not comment my posts, anymore.

[TheElf]

ORIGINAL: pauk

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Kamikazes WORK in stock WitP; I don't give a ***'s *** what Pauk says.

Your employees will be delighted with your correspodention skills. You are just arrogant lyer. For the last time i will say you - leave me alone and please do not comment my posts, anymore.

Kamikaze's do in fact work in stock. But to be clear, we did not touch the routine itself as it was clear the typical trouble with Kamikaze's was with the UBER CAP. THIS is where we devoted a lot of time and energy. The end result is a more refined and dynamic system that is not a wall of fighters.

We ahve not had a chance to test this however since the usual limitation of getting to late war scenarios that are representative of a typical game are still there. The only way to currently test this properly is to build a comprehensive scenario that starts in 45' or to play a game all the way through.

given that there will be several patches BEFORE any player is likely to play to 45' we are prioritizing this lower until we can get to it.

[jwilkerson]

ORIGINAL: pauk

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Kamikazes WORK in stock WitP; I don't give a ***'s *** what Pauk says.

Your employees will be delighted with your correspodention skills. You are just arrogant lyer. For the last time i will say you - leave me alone and please do not comment my posts, anymore.

Alright, I suggest both of you go read the sticky post I put out front. You are both across the line. Offensive language will not be tolerated, whether disguised or not, and personal attacks will not be tolerated, and we have all of that here.

[jwilkerson]

ORIGINAL: paul

No, they don't work. Only if you set Zekes on max altitude, above Hellcats ceiling...

I guess you tried to say that kamis not been touched, but with new A2A combat routine some of them will FINALLY get trough?

So back to the issue.

Do Kamis (or Okhas) "work" in stock ?? Well, I think this depends on your definition of "work".

After being told for months (or was it years) that Ohkas never worked, that exhaustive testing had been done which proved that Okha never, ever made an attack/hit, and went and tried it myself. And holy cow, the very first time I tried it, they attacked and hit. And I posted this. I tried it several more times and sometimes they attacked/hit and sometimes not. But after far less than "exhastive" testing, they attacked/hit greater than zero times. Does this mean Okha are perfect? No.

In fact we went and looked at the code and found an issue, which has been fixed in 1.8.0.7 and in AE. This did not prevent them from attacking, actually it allowed small attacks to happen when they should not have, but it decreased the number of Okha that got thrown away in small useless attacks. The details are the if the "fly/no-fly" decision resulted in 0 planes selected to fly, and if you had an Okha flight - then a bug allowed one Okha flight to fly anyway, even though it should not have. This resulted in like 4 Okha flying, which would pretty much always fail against any kind of CAP or flak. We have fixed this bug. In my case, when I first saw it work, in my first test, I had 11 flying, so I passed the "fly" check and got more than one flight. But subsequent testing revealed strange behavior and eventually MichaelM and I nailed this one. One may not agree with HOW the Okha work, the reliance on the EXP of the Bomber crew, but, given the evidence we have at this point, I don't think it makes much sense to say that Okha do not "work".

So, what about Kamis? Both NikMod and WITP-AE have attempted to address the "Uber CAP" issue, though in different ways. Nik changed the data, because he couldn't change the code. We have taken the code change approach because we could. But both solutions reduce the bloodiness of a2a combat and allow more "leakers" to get through the CAP. This may result in Kamis getting through without having to use the altitude trick.
I think Termi's point though was that the code allows Kamis to fly and to strike and damage ships. Pauk was saying, that "effectively" Kamis don't work because they can't get through the CAP. But actually both seem to be correct - I say seem - because I haven't done any testing in this area myself. But given the evidence I've seen, Kamis "work" they just can't get through the Uber CAP. So, from my perspective, this is really just another symptom of the "Uber CAP" problem, which we are definitely trying to solve. It was in our top 4 issues (and all of the top four issues were air combat related IIRC).

But we need to test to determine if WITP-AE has sufficiently fixed Uber CAP to allow the right amount of Kamis to leak through to provide a historical feel. We don't know that yet. We're still finishing up the Air OOB and can't start full integration testing until we do. But stay tuned, and stay cool!
[:)]

[Nomad]

If the CAP is fixed, then Kamis should work against shiping.

The only last question would be if you have found and fixed the Kamis attacking airfields bug. I am pretty sure that PzB has had that problem all along in a stock game.

[jwilkerson]

ORIGINAL: Nomad

If the CAP is fixed, then Kamis should work against shiping.

The only last question would be if you have found and fixed the Kamis attacking airfields bug. I am pretty sure that PzB has had that problem all along in a stock game.

Yes, this is fixed in both 1.8.0.7 and in AE.

[Nomad]

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

ORIGINAL: Nomad

If the CAP is fixed, then Kamis should work against shiping.

The only last question would be if you have found and fixed the Kamis attacking airfields bug. I am pretty sure that PzB has had that problem all along in a stock game.

Yes, this is fixed in both 1.8.0.7 and in AE.

Yes. [&o][&o][&o][&o][&o][&o][&o][&o][&o][&o][:D]

[Brady]

Can Kamakazis and Oahka's make Night atacks in game, and can these be trigerd by Night time Naval air search sorties?

Ki-115?

[Andy Mac]

Please note for technicla reasons PZB and I were unable to upgrade ton 1.8.7 so thats why followers of our AAR still see this bug

[Nomad]

I think John and I couldn't even upgrade to 1.6 - I think you guys finally got it to.

[jwilkerson]

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Please note for technicla reasons PZB and I were unable to upgrade ton 1.8.7 so thats why followers of our AAR still see this bug

(I note Andy is now using Brady's spell checker! [:D])

One of the technical[sic] reasons being that 1.8.0.7 hasn't been released yet. This is actually the "Next" regular WITP patch .. which we expect will be released right around the same time as WITP-AE.