Allies Set-up Spreadsheet for AE

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: tomeck48

Per your instructions I am trying to set up an AWS TF in Dutch Harbor. YP72 is supposed to go to 168,51, then to 169,47 and return to DH. How and where do I turn on the hex coordinates?

2 Week rookie.

To set up a patrolling TF, the TF must start with "Return to Base" and the home base as target. Then you go to the Routing Screen and Choose Set Patrol Zone. Just click on the one, two or three hexes you want to set as end points for each patrol leg and you are done. A one hex patrol will of course stay in that hex.

If one of the end points is a port base, you can set the TF to refuel there before it leaves on the next leg. That obviates the TF breaking patrol to go back to home port to refuel.

Ships at sea do accumulate systems and engineering damage and sometimes collide with each other, so check in on the patrol about once a week, and watch for notices in the Ops report about problems.

[tomeck48]

Wow,that was fast. I think I get that part of it, but my point was that the spreadsheet says to set the first leg from Dutch Harbor to hex 168,51. I don't want to hunt and peck the hexes. Is there some way to get a display of hex coordinates?

[Nomad]

No, you just have to pick a hex. You can repick the hex if you need to.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: tomeck48

Wow,that was fast. I think I get that part of it, but my point was that the spreadsheet says to set the first leg from Dutch Harbor to hex 168,51. I don't want to hunt and peck the hexes. Is there some way to get a display of hex coordinates?

Start with DH selected and look at its coordinates - a mouse rollover will do that. Now just count the number of hex rows down you need to go and the number of hexes east or west you need to go on that row. You should arrive on the hex you want or at the one next to it (because hex rows are interlocked with the rows above an below them by half a hex, they cause the X number for the hexes to be one number further ahead in one row than the next one above or below).

You will not have to find an open ocean hex all that often so it is not as big a problem as it seems on the first turn.

[Kull]

ORIGINAL: tomeck48

Wow,that was fast. I think I get that part of it, but my point was that the spreadsheet says to set the first leg from Dutch Harbor to hex 168,51. I don't want to hunt and peck the hexes. Is there some way to get a display of hex coordinates?

Setting patrol zones is time consuming, especially when you are creating ALL of them. Submarines are the worst, but at least you can choose "patrol around" and pick an ocean hex in each submarines' designated zone (I title all sub patrol zones, so you should have no trouble identifying the target area). The computer won't choose the same set of hexes as those in the spreadsheet, but no biggie, believe me.

For surface ASW, there isn't a similar shortcut, but you can set your own zones. Think about a "triangle" within 2-5 hexes of the home port (as BBfanboy notes, the third hex is always a refuel stop at Port X). There's no wrong answer, the idea is to become familiar with the process of setting up patrol zones (although with small vessels like the YP, be sure that your patrol zone doesn't exceed their range).

[ggeilman]

Luckily I was always detail oriented so setting up all the subs was like a big puzzle. I have had to do a lot worse on some of my jobs in the past. I was involved in picking up the pieces of several failed bank computer conversions in the 90s. Had to trace each transaction one at a time.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: ggeilman

Luckily I was always detail oriented so setting up all the subs was like a big puzzle. I have had to do a lot worse on some of my jobs in the past. I was involved in picking up the pieces of several failed bank computer conversions in the 90s. Had to trace each transaction one at a time.

I hope you discovered that the 6 key shows ship/sub patrol zones that have been set. When you are trying to set up interlocking patrols this is a big help to see what is already covered.

[ggeilman]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: ggeilman

Luckily I was always detail oriented so setting up all the subs was like a big puzzle. I have had to do a lot worse on some of my jobs in the past. I was involved in picking up the pieces of several failed bank computer conversions in the 90s. Had to trace each transaction one at a time.

I hope you discovered that the 6 key shows ship/sub patrol zones that have been set. When you are trying to set up interlocking patrols this is a big help to see what is already covered.

Thanks, I even printed out the Hot Key list looking for this!!! Much appreciated!!! Is there one for subs?

[Kull]

ORIGINAL: ggeilman

Thanks, I even printed out the Hot Key list looking for this!!! Much appreciated!!! Is there one for subs?

Back on page 6 of this thread, I have two attachments that swap the Credits and the Hotkey screens. If you download and install them (it's very simple), the Hotkey list will always be available by clicking the "Credits" button at the top right of your game screen. No more searching for printouts or looking for them in the manual. Very handy.

Oh, and the "6" key displays sub patrol zones too.

[clamel]

I got what might be a silly question on a situation with too heavy equipment not unloading.
In you spreasheet you got an optional suggestion that I wonder why it's even there.
It's the 56th Coastal Artillery Rgt (LCU 5601)
You say this in comments on it
Strat Move Mode, Rail to LA, Set Objective: Channel Islands (Optional: Load on TF and move to Channel Islands)

I picked a ship smaller than 6000 tons so it would be able to dock at Channel Island but then I of course got stuck with those heavy 155mm guns.
They have been sitting on the nice Channel Island for almost a month and not a single one is off the ship.
Then noticing that the unit actually is ticked as Removing 28 Feb -42, in just a few days for me.

I can't see should be any option at all as far as I understand. How would I get those guns off the ship just by following the spreadsheet ?
The port is 1 and of course no Naval Support.

Now I do have other issues with heavy equipment not unloading at other places, but that's my bad judgement. This "order" I picked from this brilliant sheet,
so I gathering it was no problem or issue attached to it.

Since I get no info in the game (what I can see) that it is totally impossible to unload some equipment it's hard to know if and how long one should leave the ship at the base in hope it would eventually unload. Or just give up and send it back with the heavies. Which create a new problem of course.

[Alfred]

clamel,

Your basic mistake here is that you have automatically assumed which type of task force to use in this instance. Kull hasn't specified you use a transport task force. You need to learn and understand the different characteristics of amphibious and transport/cargo task forces.

1. Start with s.6.1.1.1 of the manual for a basic description of the different types of task forces in the game.

2. Then move onto s.6.3.2.1 of the manual for a basic understanding of the amount of space occupied in ship cargo holds by the different types of devices.

3. Ss.6.3.2.2 and 6.3.2.3 of the manual then expand on the practical impact of the different device types on cargo hold utilization.

4. Pages 127-128 of the manual build on the preceding concepts and explain the appropriate situations to use an amphibious or transport task force.

There is much more contained in the manual about loading and unloading of task forces but the above is the basic ground to master first.

Alfred

[clamel]

Thanks a million.
I might need to read that thing even more carefully. It's a massive game and a massive manual. That struggling with all the new stuff in patches.
It's a bit tricky to get ones head around all the details in this beast, so very glad to get either direct answers or these nice pointers where to look. It's a bit overwhelming.

[Kull]

Reading the manual the first time can be an eye-glazing exercise, since it's hard to put all that information in context. Nevertheless, it's important that you do so as the spreadsheet assumes you have at least some idea of how things are supposed to work. Reading it a second time, after playing the game for a few days or weeks, is a COMPLETELY different experience. You will be amazed how often you find yourself nodding your head, as each previously incoherent section suddenly makes total sense.

As to this particular unit.....in most cases, the spreadsheet holds your hand tightly and guides you along the path....but that is not the case here. Why? Well, it's an opportunity to figure things out for yourself, quickly, and in a location where nobody is shooting at you. One of the most important things a player needs to understand is how to move units by sea to island destinations. And as you have discovered, transport mode vs. amphibious REALLY matters, and just as important are the kinds of vessels that will transport each unit. Even if your transport mode was correct, but you had chosen to carry it in xAP and xAK ships.....well, it will take a LOT longer to unload because unlike AK and AP vessels, there isn't a built-in ship-to-shore capability. And while spending more time than necessary is inconvenient in friendly locales, on a hostile shore it means that unit (and others) will be coming ashore in dribs and drabs, and, well, your casualties will be enormous.

So this was an opportunity - an optional one - for you to pick up some never-to-be-forgotten knowledge. And I'd say it worked! [:)]

[clamel]

Spot on Kull, that part, the differnce the AP/AK without the little x have is now obvious to be the key in some cases. My bad only to look at size, speed on cargoship and size of port and Naval Support, since I haven't reached time yet to start advancing with all the power of Amphbious plus/negativ issues.
It's true I picked a xAK for those 155mm guns. So a proper AK, small enough to dock would have unloaded those 155mm heavies ?
As you say one learn a bit every time one advance forward. That's what makes this game truly good.
I'm trying to follow some YT blokes and trying to pick their brains and sure enough some new "A-Ha" experience comes along in every episode (almost).
That and the great help one get on this forum is superb.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: clamel

Spot on Kull, that part, the differnce the AP/AK without the little x have is now obvious to be the key in some cases. My bad only to look at size, speed on cargoship and size of port and Naval Support, since I haven't reached time yet to start advancing with all the power of Amphbious plus/negativ issues.
It's true I picked a xAK for those 155mm guns. So a proper AK, small enough to dock would have unloaded those 155mm heavies ?
As you say one learn a bit every time one advance forward. That's what makes this game truly good.
I'm trying to follow some YT blokes and trying to pick their brains and sure enough some new "A-Ha" experience comes along in every episode (almost).
That and the great help one get on this forum is superb.

In my first game I tried to pick up 6" (152mm) CD guns from one of the islands west of Colombo using xAPs, xAKs and then xAKLs. IIRC the port was size 1. On the first attempt a gun was lost in the water and none were loaded; I figured out that I should have docked a ship to do that but the xAP and xAK were too big to dock. So I sent the xAKL from Colombo, docked it - and dropped the next gun in the water without loading any. Thinking it may be a random kind of thing, I tried again and ... dropped another gun in the water.

At that point I gave up, deciding to build the port before trying again. Months later when the port was level 2 I tried again and - dropped the last gun in the water.

I suspect the load cost of the item is compared with port resources (load capacity per turn, presumed dock capacity, crane capacity on the xAKL and ?) to determine if the item could be handled. At any rate, after that I learned to consider docking capacity, naval support (which does not help at ports with SPS 0) and ship type for heavy objects. Radars require a lot of loading/unloading support.

[RangerJoe]

For small ports, amphibious TFs may be better.

[BBfanboy]

Certainly true for smaller stuff, but I have tried with large items and they typically do not unload. A size 1 port would not have a lighter big enough to handle the weight of a 6" CD gun (which may be heavier because of armour than a army arty type gun of the same caliber). And if the ship does not have a crane that can handle it ...it goes where the ship goes!

[clamel]

ORIGINAL: Kull
Even if your transport mode was correct, but you had chosen to carry it in xAP and xAK ships.....well, it will take a LOT longer to unload because unlike AK and AP vessels, there isn't a built-in ship-to-shore capability. And while spending more time than necessary is inconvenient in friendly locales, on a hostile shore it means that unit (and others) will be coming ashore in dribs and drabs, and, well, your casualties will be enormous.

So this was an opportunity - an optional one - for you to pick up some never-to-be-forgotten knowledge. And I'd say it worked! [:)]

I understand this could be true, but really can't find anything of this in the manual. Exclude Amph TF, but just a normal cargo TF. Lots of tables in the manual but I can't grasp what makes a AK unload faster than a xAK of same size and in same size port.

Blunt saying that I can't even find if these 155mm guns can unload in time or not at all. Some tables I read got numbers that is far lower than the 1440 that ship got on those guns. Since it stuck for several days I just deduct it can never unload.
The message I read in the Op Rep say TF can not completely unload at Channel Island.
That might be info enough.
But I can't mathematical see numbers on why not.

I do see the tables with the size of ship that can dock in ports of different sizes but not that specific equipment had a play.
I got these 3 guns at Load cost 480 each (155mm M1918) laod cost for them in database is 60
In a Capacity Usage table in Manual I find load cost for Heavy(load cost > 9) is 3Xload.
So 480x3 then = 1440
Well what now. How do I understand that these will not ever unload ?
I looked in this 6.3.3.2.4 SHIP AND PORT LOAD ABILITY TABLE and found not numbers I grasp in this case.
I read this too, which don't indicate a total stop

6.3.3.3.1 NORMAL UNLOADING
2. Port Rate Limitations: The Daily Port Rate applies to Loading and
Unloading together. If a Loading TF uses 70% of the Daily Port
Rate, then only 30% remains available for Unloading

Sorry if I just don't see this. Most searches in forum comes up with amph problem or speed of unloading, not total stop.

Edit:
at last I found this thread.
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3903886

It also state in that htread
"Typically the xAK/xAP won't unload heavy equipment (radars, tractors, etc) unless it can dock at the base. If it can't dock, it won't unload them or may take an excruciatingly long time to do so w/ naval support at the base."
But in my case my ship is docked in a port 1.

[clamel]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


In my first game I tried to pick up 6" (152mm) CD guns from one of the islands west of Colombo using xAPs, xAKs and then xAKLs. IIRC the port was size 1. On the first attempt a gun was lost in the water and none were loaded; I figured out that I should have docked a ship to do that but the xAP and xAK were too big to dock. So I sent the xAKL from Colombo, docked it - and dropped the next gun in the water without loading any. Thinking it may be a random kind of thing, I tried again and ... dropped another gun in the water.

At that point I gave up, deciding to build the port before trying again. Months later when the port was level 2 I tried again and - dropped the last gun in the water.

I suspect the load cost of the item is compared with port resources (load capacity per turn, presumed dock capacity, crane capacity on the xAKL and ?) to determine if the item could be handled. At any rate, after that I learned to consider docking capacity, naval support (which does not help at ports with SPS 0) and ship type for heavy objects. Radars require a lot of loading/unloading support.

I got an Amphib ship stuck on North Male with a Sound Detector it can't unload. So this is an Amphibious not docked ship. Not even that thing can be dragged on to the beach. Find that weird. But if I could I would dump it in the Indian Ocean and sail away. [:D]

[RangerJoe]

Move the ship somewhere else to unload it. Once you get things like LSTs, they will unload 1000 tons per unloading phase.