Continental Clash - Cuttlefish (J) vs castor troy (A)

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: jeffk3510

I agree with you about the TF size, and have understood that from day one (although I have never played UV, so maybe that doesn't count as day one..[:D])

I haven't ever thought of the draining of opposing forces OP points in such a manner. I have also thought about the more ships you have, the less the enemy's shots will be concentrated on one or two ships...but like you said, more targets..

I hope that makes sense.

not really my experience, but crsutton might have experienced it different. I am agreeing to a certain point when it comes down to TF size, I would not use a 25 ship surface combat TF for example but I have tangled around in H2H tests so many hours and I just can't see the advantage of having two dozen ships spread in four TFs compared to two TFs. To me, the opposite is true and it's not a bad thing to have different oppinions on that, makes it better games as ppl use different tactics. [:)]

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: Capt. Harlock

17 x Albacore I launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Mk XII Torpedo

This part is a bit disappointing: a single torpedo hit from British torpedoes. Otherwise, a day to remember. It would seem that CF is suffering game irregularities as well.

The British aren't really needed when going in against enemy CV, the SBD usually are sufficient. It was more disappointing for me not to see the British attack the BB earlier when we engaged the IJN BB North of New Caledonia well before the invasion was going on.

I don't know if CF suffered from a glitch or something. I am sure he didn't order his CV to move full speed North as they would have moved further than 6 hexes no matter what. All in all, he should not have attacked New Caledonia at all and if he did, he would have be required to do it different IMO.

What happened so far wasn't a masterpiece of Allied high command but rather a series of bad decisions by the IJ command.

[castor troy]

the day isn't over yet...

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Morning Air attack on TF, near Torres Islands at 117,146

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms



Raid detected at 38 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes


Allied aircraft
Sea Hurricane Ib x 1
F4F-4 Wildcat x 8
SBD-3 Dauntless x 15
TBD-1 Devastator x 30
TBF-1 Avenger x 15


Allied aircraft losses
SBD-3 Dauntless: 2 damaged

Japanese Ships
CV Hiryu, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Urakaze


Hiryu actually was our primary target for today as I didn't expect the rest of the carrier group to be in the area anymore anyway, hence why my carriers only moved far enough North to be in range of the expected damaged cripples around Luganville... Hiryu ended up 100 miles from our carriers that sent 60 bombers to attack her scoring three 1000lb boms that should finish the damaged carrier...


Aircraft Attacking:
7 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
15 x TBF-1 Avenger bombing from 6000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 500 lb SAP Bomb
15 x TBD-1 Devastator bombing from 6000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 500 lb SAP Bomb
15 x TBD-1 Devastator bombing from 6000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 500 lb SAP Bomb
8 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring a Akagi class CV


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Morning Air attack on TF, near Luganville at 120,150

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid spotted at 34 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes


Allied aircraft
Sea Hurricane Ib x 4
SBD-3 Dauntless x 16


No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
DD Hatsuharu, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Suzukaze, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage


our carriers also attack two damaged destroyers that were moving to Luganville... doubt those two will survive...

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
8 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring DD Suzukaze


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Morning Air attack on TF, near Kirakira at 117,143

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 17 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 34



Allied aircraft
SBD-3 Dauntless x 17


No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
SBD-3 Dauntless: 9 destroyed, 2 damaged

Japanese Ships
CV Soryu, heavy fires
BB Hiei, heavy fires

this SBD squadron failed to link up with the main strike and arrives when the enemy carrier group puts up 34 Zeroes on Cap which shred the whole squadron of divebombers with only two bombers surviving... [:(]

if you look below at each Zero squadron one just has to wonder where all the fighters are [&:] have they all joined a strike that missed my carriers? This could also be an explanation why there were far fewer bombers than what we could expect... hmmm


Aircraft Attacking:
1 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
1 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb

CAP engaged:
Junyo-1 with A6M2 Zero (5 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(3 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
5 plane(s) intercepting now.
4 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 14080.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 18 minutes
Akagi-1 with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 6000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 56 minutes
Soryu-1 with A6M2 Zero (2 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
6 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 6000 and 14000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 35 minutes
Shokaku-1 with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
6 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 17000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 55 minutes
Hiyo-1 with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 14000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 45 minutes
Shoho-1 with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
5 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 16000 and 18000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 30 minutes



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Morning Air attack on TF, near Kirakira at 117,143

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 26 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 16 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 28



Allied aircraft
Swordfish I x 13


No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
Swordfish I: 7 destroyed

then a squadron of biplanes show up, all are shot down...


CAP engaged:
Hiyo-1 with A6M2 Zero (4 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(4 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 1 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 18 minutes
Akagi-1 with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 2 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 6000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 38 minutes
Soryu-1 with A6M2 Zero (2 airborne, 0 on standby, 6 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 4000 and 14000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 25 minutes
Shokaku-1 with A6M2 Zero (2 airborne, 0 on standby, 1 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 14000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 22 minutes
Junyo-1 with A6M2 Zero (2 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 52 minutes
Shoho-1 with A6M2 Zero (1 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 14 minutes

[castor troy]

unfortunately there were no more strikes which could have meant the end of pretty much all IJN flattops... we also didn't attack the task force reported NE of our carriers which might have been a BB surviving the attacks yesterday...

looking at the air losses today, showing a clear Allied victory... two of our bomber squadrons stopped existing when coming in unescorted which resulted in more than halve of our losses... A2A over our carriers was ok but sure not impressive, a big(ger) raid could have taken a couple of our carriers out of the fight... flak fire was intense and sure has influenced the outcome as there were nearly no undamaged enemy bombers while not even halve a dozen were reported being shot down by flak before dropping their load...

adding up air losses and looking at the ground losses, I would say two enemy carriers have been sunk today, Hiryu for sure plus Shokaku (guess)... Soryu didn't suffer enough damage that she sunk the same turn, not meaning she would survive the way back to Truk...

in total the enemy had more carriers or better say more carrier based ac than expected but the outcome with not even a damaged Allied carrier could not have been better even though as the damage done could also been higher as we only hit two out of six carriers of the main carrier group, makes it still three IJN fleet carriers surviving plus the little Shoho on which I don't give much...

decision has been made, our carriers will keep hunting the enemy for one more turn, going North... I fully expect the remaining undamaged carriers to flee full speed, doubt the IJN will fail to do so twice in a row... once more to say, the ratio in carrier based ac wasn't favouring us as much as expected so in the end it looks like the IJN screwed up (not only due to the wrong alt for the dozen of dive bombers that managed to drop their load over our carrier group)... after the sub attack on Hiryu there should have still been around 300 IJN ac on carriers in the area that should have been enough to deal some damage... so it seems like we did have either real luck or CF really screwed up, I do not know...

[castor troy]

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Jun 18, 42
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Sub attack near Lingga at 51,88

Japanese Ships
E Manazuru
DD Susuki

Allied Ships
SS O23



SS O23 launches 2 torpedoes at E Manazuru
O23 bottoming out ....
DD Susuki fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Susuki fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Susuki fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Susuki fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Susuki fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub


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ASW attack near Noumea at 115,160

Japanese Ships
SS I-122, hits 3

Allied Ships
DMS Dorsey
xAP Tjinegara
xAP Noordam
xAP Duntroon
xAP Mataroa
xAP Rangitata
xAP Santa Maria
xAP Rochambeau
xAP Etolin
xAK Weltevreden
xAK Sommelsdijk
xAK Empire Ability
xAK Doryssa
DMS Wasmuth
DMS Chandler
DMS Long
DMS Perry

that's the transport convoy that is bringing in two USMC divs plus lots of other units to Noumea, convoy was diverted from going directly to Sydney when the New Caledonia operation began... timing of that convoy could not have been much better even though we wouldn't have needed the troops to hold Noumea but they will be nice to destroy the enemy combat troops on New Caledonia...

I-122... smells like having mines at Noumea now...



SS I-122 is sighted by escort
I-122 bottoming out ....
DMS Wasmuth fails to find sub and abandons search
DMS Chandler fails to find sub and abandons search
DMS Long fails to find sub, continues to search...
DMS Perry attacking submerged sub ....
SS I-122 eludes ASW attack from DMS Perry
DMS Perry loses contact with SS I-122
DMS Perry cannot reach attack position over SS I-122
DMS Long fails to find sub, continues to search...
DMS Perry fails to find sub, continues to search...
DMS Long fails to find sub and abandons search
DMS Perry attacking submerged sub ....
DMS Perry cannot reach attack position over SS I-122
DMS Perry fails to find sub, continues to search...
DMS Perry attacking submerged sub ....
DMS Perry cannot reach attack position over SS I-122
DMS Perry fails to find sub, continues to search...
DMS Perry fails to find sub, continues to search...
DMS Perry attacking submerged sub ....
SS I-122 eludes ASW attack from DMS Perry
DMS Perry loses contact with SS I-122
DMS Perry cannot reach attack position over SS I-122
SS I-122 eludes ASW attack from DMS Perry
Escort abandons search for sub


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TF 132 encounters mine field at Noumea (115,160)
Allied Ships
DD Aylwin

2 mines cleared

lol, while I was thinking about probably having mines here I already get confirmation... just wondering why all those DMS and AM do nothing...

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TF 132 encounters mine field at Noumea (115,160)

Allied Ships
DD Worden
DD Farragut



2 mines cleared


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Morning Air attack on TF, near Kirakira at 118,141

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms



Raid detected at 78 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 29 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 4
D3A1 Val x 4



Allied aircraft
Sea Hurricane Ib x 7
Martlet II x 14
F4F-3A Wildcat x 17
F4F-3 Wildcat x 27
F4F-4 Wildcat x 44


Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 2 destroyed
D3A1 Val: 2 destroyed

No Allied losses

my carriers are in pursuit of the fleeing IJN and I was surprised to see the damaged enemy ships to be able to still move that far North, probably again a matter of bomb damage being reduced and me still not being able to really estimate the damage done...

a pityful strike coming in, must be Soryu which surprises me even more as I wouldn't have expected her to be still able to launch aircraft... thought she would be in sinking condition (I nearly didn't order my carriers to pursuit) but in fact she still is able to operate aircraft... wow, quite an achievement with all those big holes in her flight deck and halve of the ship gone... or would that be how she would look like in real life after all those 1000lb bombs detonating inside the ship? [:(]

to be honest, IMO reducing the bomb effects wasn't a good idea as it really screws up anti shipping strikes... stock bombs didn't do enough damage compared to real life while we see far too many hits (for more action in the game)... but reducing effect makes the feeling for it even worse, what gives to need a dozen 1000lb bombs going through the deck of an IJN carrier able to carry 50 aircraft to sink it?

I know the main reason to adjust bomb effects was to stop seeing whole Armies being annihilated by air attacks (which only happens in clear terrain) but this is something that everyone can easily fix with a house rule (going up to 15000ft for example)... as it stands now, airfield and port attacks don't do enough damage, or if they do, then the repairs are going too well as those rates weren't changed... as for nav strikes, number of bomb hits now is even more exxagerated than in stock, I have not really noticed a difference in hit rates... there might be a difference as the accuracy has been changed too but you won't notice it without doing statistics... hit rate feels exactly the same as in stock...

to me, cahnge in terms of SAP bombs for nav strikes would be their accuracy lowered with their effect being increased... that would stop freighters from happily moving on after being hit by three 1000lb bombs when one would be sufficient to sink a freighter in most cases real life... the IJN lost a carrier to a single 1000lb bomb and IIRC a USN CVE was sunk from a single fighter on a Kamikaze mission... was it St. Lo? can't remember... stock had an exxagerated hit rate with unrealitic low damage (general consensus seems to have always been 50%), now Babes has pretty much the same hit rate but hits to damage, let alone sink a ship are even more exxagerated, being somewhere in the area of 3 times more bombs needed to sink a ship compared to real life... this just doesn't feel right to me and doesn't match any of the damage reports I looked up on the I-net which took me hours and hours a while back...

as to GP bombs for ground, airfield, port attacks, I would not have touched them because now that the feel for ground attacks is better, the feel for the far more common airfield and port attacks is off (to me) as the repair routines are the same as in stock (which always were far too efficient, again probably to see more action in the game)... now you bomb, do nearly no damage and the damage you do is repaired in a moment, making it hard to knock out a base... everyone knows that damage to a runway can be repaired in no time (at least non concrete runways which was the majority) but damage to the airbase or the port is not something you repair in a couple of days and this is what makes a base unusable for longer periods (which we normally never see in stock either, but it's worse now - for the attacker - in Babes)...

I really love the mod and all the changes the guys have done, but changes to bombs seem to turn out to be far off for me... again this is my personal impression...

changes to torps work out great for me, can see some difference in accuracy as it doesn't seem to be that easily to hit fast moving, undamaged targets and you see torps "failing to penetrate" which sounded funny for me first but this is kind of simulating torpedo bulges...

starting a new game I would again choose Babes for all the great things in the mod but leave bomb effects like they were in stock (a change of what I would propose would have to be tested as to how they work out with the repair routines on ships) while also having the changes to torps (both sub and aerial)...







CAP engaged:
VF-2 with F4F-4 Wildcat (0 airborne, 7 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 3 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 7000 and 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 25 minutes
7 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-3 with F4F-4 Wildcat (3 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 9000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 20 minutes
8 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-42 with F4F-4 Wildcat (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 19 minutes
3 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-6 with F4F-3A Wildcat (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 3 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters to 4000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 31 minutes
7 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-8 with F4F-4 Wildcat (4 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 7000 and 9000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 20 minutes
8 planes vectored on to bombers
No.800 Sqn FAA with Sea Hurricane Ib (0 airborne, 4 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters to 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 11 minutes
1 planes vectored on to bombers
No.880 Sqn FAA with Sea Hurricane Ib (2 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 20000
Raid is overhead
2 planes vectored on to bombers
No.881 Sqn FAA with Martlet II (0 airborne, 6 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 14000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 10 minutes
2 planes vectored on to bombers
No.888 Sqn FAA with Martlet II (1 airborne, 4 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters to 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 19 minutes
5 planes vectored on to bombers
VMF-111 with F4F-3A Wildcat (2 airborne, 4 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters to 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 9 minutes
6 planes vectored on to bombers
VMF-121 with F4F-3 Wildcat (0 airborne, 6 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 11000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 20 minutes
6 planes vectored on to bombers
VMF-211 with F4F-3 Wildcat (0 airborne, 6 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 11000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 20 minutes
5 planes vectored on to bombers
VMF-221 with F4F-3 Wildcat (0 airborne, 6 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 12000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 21 minutes
7 planes vectored on to bombers

[castor troy]

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Morning Air attack on TF, near Stewart Island at 118,138

Weather in hex: Moderate rain




Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 15 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 5



Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 7
SBD-3 Dauntless x 46
TBF-1 Avenger x 28


Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
SBD-3 Dauntless: 6 damaged

Japanese Ships
CV Soryu, Bomb hits 5, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Akigumo
CL Jintsu, Bomb hits 7, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Makigumo


Soryu dared to launch a strike against our carriers and we retaliate this with a strike of 74 bombers escorted by 7 Wildcats (escort/bomber ratio questionable once more)... 5 more 1000lb bombs penetrate flight deck and/or belt of the carrier which means she should be finished now... makes it carrier number three to be sunk in the New Caledonia operation for no carrier losses on our side... well done carrier fleet!


Aircraft Attacking:
11 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
14 x TBF-1 Avenger bombing from 6000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 500 lb SAP Bomb
10 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
7 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
14 x TBF-1 Avenger bombing from 6000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 500 lb SAP Bomb
8 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
5 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
1 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb

CAP engaged:
Soryu-1 with A6M2 Zero (1 airborne, 4 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 12000 and 17000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 7 minutes

Fuel storage explosion on CV Soryu
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CV Soryu
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CL Jintsu


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Morning Air attack on Luganville , at 120,150

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid spotted at 40 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Japanese aircraft
no flights


Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 36


Japanese aircraft losses
H6K4 Mavis: 1 destroyed on ground

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
10 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled



Airbase hits 8
Airbase supply hits 8
Runway hits 38

also moved my B-17s to Noumea to fly attacks against the airfield at Luganville which is big enough to fly small sized strikes out of it which shouldn't be that much of a threat but I just want to make sure... carrier based ac diverted to the base as we damage quite some of them but only kill a Mavis in the attack... it takes probably three or four such B-17 strikes to take out that tiny airfield in Babes... [:(]


Aircraft Attacking:
5 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb
6 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb
4 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb
4 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb
4 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb
5 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb
5 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb



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Morning Air attack on TF, near Stewart Island at 117,137

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 15 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes


Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 8
SBD-3 Dauntless x 16


No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
DD Urakaze

three enemy TF were spotted today, two were attacked, most of the bombers decided to stay on the carriers... not much chance to hit that destroyer in rainy weather...

the carriers were ordered to head back towards Noumea as I don't want to move further North while all damaged high value IJN ships are sunk with the undamaged ones being able to move away from our carriers...

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
9 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb

Carrier support unable to supply air cover..

[Kereguelen]

You can easily change the bomb effects by swithching the wpd.xxx.dat file (both you and your opponent) with a (Babes) file that does not contain the altered bomb effects.

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: Kereguelen

You can easily change the bomb effects by swithching the wpd.xxx.dat file (both you and your opponent) with a (Babes) file that does not contain the altered bomb effects.

yes, thanks for the tip. We have used the new file that JWE has sent me and copied it into our ongoing game. I think I will not bring it up as I think it actually harms the Allied more for the rest of the war than the Japanese and with the results so far I think it is not a fault to handicap the Allied a little as Cuttlefish is quite in a bad mood after the happenings around Noumea as he already wanted to surrender and give up the game.

Am really glad he slept over it and said he would continue because he really is a gentleman and a very realible one so it's a great experience to play him.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: castor troy

ORIGINAL: Kereguelen

You can easily change the bomb effects by swithching the wpd.xxx.dat file (both you and your opponent) with a (Babes) file that does not contain the altered bomb effects.

yes, thanks for the tip. We have used the new file that JWE has sent me and copied it into our ongoing game. I think I will not bring it up as I think it actually harms the Allied more for the rest of the war than the Japanese and with the results so far I think it is not a fault to handicap the Allied a little as Cuttlefish is quite in a bad mood after the happenings around Noumea as he already wanted to surrender and give up the game.

Am really glad he slept over it and said he would continue because he really is a gentleman and a very realible one so it's a great experience to play him.

I've tried to find the updated ordnance file for Babes, but the only downloads I can find are from about last November, which I believe is before these changes were discussed (alternate load outs depending on land target versus ship target, etc.). Do you know where I can find it?

Just so I understand, are the results you are seeing and commenting on happening with the new file (that has alternate load outs), or with the last Babes update from (IIRC) last November?

A quick point: as best I can recall, reduced damage to bases was an objective of the changes in addition to reduced damage to ground units. It was often discussed as being too easy to shut down bases.

Edit to add: Kudos to you and Cuttlefish for working things out so amicably.

[castor troy]

JWE sent me the updated file, don't know if it ever went official. When I was talking to John after playing some time with the new file he said it would, so don't know. If you want to have the file you can pm me your email address and I'll send it, guess that's ok as JWE told me other ppl are using the new file too.

[crsutton]

I agree with your assesment. Basically, after mid 1943 if the Allies wanted to close a Japanese air base, they did it. And the reduced bomb effect on ships just makes surface combat even more significant in the game and it is already too strong of a factor in stock. Bomb attacks vs infantry in the open was a bit out of whack but a small matter compared to the other effects of these changes.

I do like the other changes that the babes brings to the game and am looking forward to trying it in my next campaign.

[witpqs]

I think that after mid-43 the Allies can close IJ air bases partly because they do have enough of the right planes to do it. As best I remember the conversations, it wasn't the fact that Allies can close IJ airbases, it was how easy it was. I've got two Babes games going in mid-42 and although I can close IJ airbases it sure is a lot harder. That part seems OK to me so far.

[Andav]

As one of witpqs' opponents, I will add another prospective. The way Japanese construction and engineering squads are distributed, it is harder to rebuild bases without massing units. So while the affect might seem less, it lingers longer. It seems right to me so far.

Wa

[castor troy]

today's airlosses, ground losses the most interesting aspect... Kate, Val and Zero losses account for Soryu being sunk, the Alf might be from CL Jintsu... note the 4 Kingfishers, that's CL Phoenix sinking at Noumea today as the damage has been too severe to safe the ship... the rest of the cruisers disbanded in Noumea's port will make it...

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: Miller

From your last sentence I'm guessing he loses half the KB in the next few days.......

going through the latest days again to come up with a accurate guess of enemy ships sunk I stumbled over this post of Miller... looks like his guess was quite accurate... [:D]

[castor troy]

ship losses around New Caledonia highly favour the Allied...

Allied ships sunk:

6 destroyers
CL Phoenix

Japanese ships sunk:

4 or 5 destroyers
BB Yamashiro
BB Haruna
BB Hyuga (probably)
CA Atago
CA Tone
CL Jintsu
CV Shokaku
CV Hiryu
CV Soryu

BB Hiei might have gone down after a lot of 1000lb bombs plus a torpedo from British torp bombers...

all in all I'd say that it was a glaring defeat for the IJN and also the IJA will have to pay for it as there is more than a division stranded on New Caledonia... if I wouldn't have engaged the bombardment TF at Noumea we wouldn't have lost a single ship... air losses for us aren't severe either, nothing we can't replace easily even though a couple of unescorted bomber squadrons were completely annihilated...

[jeffk3510]

Excellent outcome.

[crsutton]

Almost impossible to recover from as a Japanese player at this stage of the game. He has really lost his carrier edge which will adversely affect his ability to maintain any sort of momentum. I feel for Cuttlefish as he is smart enough to see the future. KB is a mailed fist in 42, but split it up vs American carriers and the Japanese carriers become amazingly brittle. Now his only chance is to seek a decisive victory vs the American carrier force in order to regain his edge-which turns his focus away from what he really needs to do.

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Almost impossible to recover from as a Japanese player at this stage of the game. He has really lost his carrier edge which will adversely affect his ability to maintain any sort of momentum. I feel for Cuttlefish as he is smart enough to see the future. KB is a mailed fist in 42, but split it up vs American carriers and the Japanese carriers become amazingly brittle. Now his only chance is to seek a decisive victory vs the American carrier force in order to regain his edge-which turns his focus away from what he really needs to do.

The Japanese are in trouble now but the situation is far from being hopeless. He has to fully focus on the defense now though and has to build up a line of defense as soon as possible, otherwhise my troops will suddenly not only knock on the door to vital areas but will kick in the door.

Like you describe, in 42 I too see KB as a fist and if the fist is gone, all offensive operations that require amphib ops have to be stopped or run danger of being annihilated, land based offensives, such as China won't be directly affected. Cuttlefish has to strenghten his positions now and he has to do that where it is the most important, means around the SRA. The situation now would force me as the IJ commander to pretty much forget about the outlying Pacific positions to bring as much as possible to defend the SRA, mainly from an advance out of the Darwin area which is the most obvious approach.

Japanese LBA isn't as strong as it will be in mid 43 or even later but focussed in an area it could pretty much do the same to our carrier fleet as our carriers just did to the Japanese. Losing three CV against an LBA strike consisting of 100 Zeroes that escort 60-80 Betties/Nells wouldn't be that surprising. In such a case, the Allied offensives would stop as abrupt as the Japanese's do now. The momentum is now on our side but the possibility to advance is a window of a couple of months IMO. The Tojo should be ready for production and can be produced in high numbers, then the IJAAF fighters will rule the sky until early 43. Availability of IJNAF torp bombers should be high enough to stop any Allied offensive if the IJ focusses. If the assets are split over the whole map, we will directly march through the SRA onto Tokyo and will arrive there in roughly 1.5 years. Succesfully engaging the IJN's carriers opened up a window of 6 months that I didn't expect to have, hence all my LCU that were prepping for defensive targets are now already prepping for offensive targets, while still sitting in their areas they were tasked to defend even though I don't expect any more IJ amphib operations in the Pacific, let alone against Australia or India.

There are two minor facts that now turn out to have a massive impact. First, the succesful low level bomb attack of Dutch bombers against KB off Java when two IJN fleet carriers were hit by bombs that later required repairs, directly leading to the defeat off New Caledonia as I wouldn't have sent in my carriers against all available IJN carriers (I was surprised about the numbers of carriers anyway and completely miscalculated the number of carrier based ac).

The second one is the effect of my strongholds that still fight on Luzon and on Java. At Clark Field we have 2500 av well supplied that hold against all Japanese attempts to overrun the position. At Bandoeng (Java) we have 1100 Dutch av sitting more than well supplied in the mountains where the Japanese don't even try to attack but have to keep units to keep us in place. All in all the Japanese use roughly 1800 av to guard our prison camps and on Luzon we have shred several divisions already that seem to be sitting at Manila to recover. Granted, shred means causing massive numbers of disablements with only some 10-15% destroyed but this still takes time and effort to recover. All these units could be used to hold the entrance into the SRA, means the area around Ambon, Kendari and Timor with a staggered defense getting stronger the closer the Allied get to Java and/or Borneo. As it stands now, there are neither sufficient numbers of troops in these areas, nor built up bases that seem to be a real threat. That we have sunk halve of the enemy's heavy cruisers and a good number of battleships (with most of the rest being damaged) will only make the whole situation a bit worse for the enemy at the moment.

Don't know what he did with all his political points, I would have released as many divisions from Manchuko as I have pp, later followed by units from China. The whole IJ situation would make me doing nothing in China other than fortifying my positions, not even thinking about going offensively, moving out as much stuff as possible to hold against the inevitable counterpunch now. Again, the loss of three USN CV in a month or so would stop this counteroffensive right at the start but there is only LBA that could do this at the moment. Or LBA first, followed by the rest of the IJN carriers. The other way around could lead to the annihilation of the rest of his carriers so I would be more than cautious. In a year, the IJN carrier strenght can be at the same level as it was a week ago, or could already be higher which would make KB a dangerous weapon again, especially if the IJ player knows how to use his LBA in combination with KB.

I think the next 5-6 months will be the most important for the Japanese and as the IJ commander I would focus in bringing as much divisions to the front to defend against the upcoming Allied offensives. Even if those divs will be lost in the end, in numbers they work very well to delay the Allied as reinforcements for an amphib operation always take roughly three months due to preparation times.

[crsutton]

Yeah, I agree with your assessment. I tend to be very careful with my Allied carriers and would not want to lose three if I was in your position, but the loss of three Allied carriers is not as critical as the loss of his momentum at this stage. Even with a rebuilt KB, if the Allies get two months to breath and fortify, then the Japanese player is not going to be able to do much to dent the wall.

It is tough to play Japan in AE. The Allied player is in a dire condition in 1942 but there just is so little room for the Japanese player to make a mistake. My hats off to all JFBs....