Greyjoy(J) vs. Obvert(A) - The air war in China- DBB, SLs, PDU OFF

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

One last comment here. Why is everybody forced on raw AV values vs the actual Anti-Armor and Anti-Soft values the Allied troops have at this time in the war?? [&:] [:(] Almost all of them are really bad, IMO.

True Micheal. However a +4 terrain modifier, along with forts, can make those values become pretty scary in the adjusted AV results... We'll soon see i guess...

[ny59giants]

Their morale and experience levels are really poor at start. Some will be at 20 for both. Those will add to their fragile nature. I'm not saying that this will be easy, but the Allies don't have many advantages here except terrain and basic forts.

Since they came off all those ships, have you gone through the leaders of your HQs and divisions at DH??

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Their morale and experience levels are really poor at start. Some will be at 20 for both. Those will add to their fragile nature. I'm not saying that this will be easy, but the Allies don't have many advantages here except terrain and basic forts.

Since they came off all those ships, have you gone through the leaders of your HQs and divisions at DH??

Yes, leaders are all very good. The best i could effort to buy. They have all been checked and changed when needed during the Malaya campaign.

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Is there supposed to be a "GHOST" river between DH and Calcutta???????
It is not represented! How am I supposed to know!?

Com'on... ((((((

Sent only 3 divisions while the other 3 are still 15 miles away. They got impaled. Trashed 1 and half division completely. If I knew I would have sent them all at once...

really disappointed. I don't feel I did anything wrong here. The map is more than misleading.

Wanna cry[:(]

funny as it is, I had to find out the same in my ongoing PBEM vs khyberbill when I had 4000av crossing the river from Diamond Harbour into Calcutta. It was quite a surprise to see rivercrossing when ordering the units to march. Or should I call it shocking? The map is misleading and as it stands, Calcutta is the only hex I know that is surrounded by a river in every hex you can enter the town. Add in urban heavy and it is the hardest possible hex on the whole map to take. [:)] I had 4000av, only first line divisions. The river crossing resulted in more than 1000 disabled combat squads (all 100% prepped), caused by second line Indian troops, low experienced, trashed from previous combat, units by far not built out, many support units. Calcutta only got one downside, it can be bombarded from Sea.

[GreyJoy]

here's the situation at Calcutta:

25th Army is 19/46 miles to Calcutta
Small para units moving from 3 other directions, along with Tanks circling around

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

One last comment here. Why is everybody forced on raw AV values vs the actual Anti-Armor and Anti-Soft values the Allied troops have at this time in the war?? [&:] [:(] Almost all of them are really bad, IMO.

Because if you don't get the needed odds the Allied can still wreck your troops easily. In my ongoing PBEM vs khyberbill I have been where Greyjoy is now. 4000 fully prepped IJ av entered Calcutta from DH and had to shock attack. The enemy had two understrenght Ind Div there plus lots of those "crap" units. I had more than 1000 combat squads disabled just from the shock attack into Calcutta. It took another 4 or 5 divisions as reinforcements to take the town on the third attempt. If the terrain is great for defense (no better hex on the map than Calcutta) you can make it more or less impossible to conquer, it just depends how much supply and flak you have and a certain amount of av will hold forever.

Greyjoy's main advantage IMO is the date when he lands there. I was going there in April after all the rest of my targets were conquered so the Allied had more time to bring troops to India but those then weren't in the Calcutta area which was the Allied's main mistake. I don't think 2500 av would be enough to take Calcutta though as the 18th Div is quite worth it.

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: castor troy

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Is there supposed to be a "GHOST" river between DH and Calcutta???????
It is not represented! How am I supposed to know!?

Com'on... ((((((

Sent only 3 divisions while the other 3 are still 15 miles away. They got impaled. Trashed 1 and half division completely. If I knew I would have sent them all at once...

really disappointed. I don't feel I did anything wrong here. The map is more than misleading.

Wanna cry[:(]

funny as it is, I had to find out the same in my ongoing PBEM vs khyberbill when I had 4000av crossing the river from Diamond Harbour into Calcutta. It was quite a surprise to see rivercrossing when ordering the units to march. Or should I call it shocking? The map is misleading and as it stands, Calcutta is the only hex I know that is surrounded by a river in every hex you can enter the town. Add in urban heavy and it is the hardest possible hex on the whole map to take. [:)] I had 4000av, only first line divisions. The river crossing resulted in more than 1000 disabled combat squads (all 100% prepped), caused by second line Indian troops, low experienced, trashed from previous combat, units by far not built out, many support units. Calcutta only got one downside, it can be bombarded from Sea.

I'll have barely 2200 AVs to face the enemy. So yes, i'm prepared to see my units trashed.
Surely that is a hell of a hex to invade...you can bomb it by river, yes, but you risk to trash the industry even more...
But i guess that there is no option once you get there...you need to accept the fact that you'll suffer the risk of trashin g the industry for the prize of conquering that key-city

[GreyJoy]

In China my advance North of Sian has forced him to abbandon the Woods South of it. He will probably reposition his armies on the mountains...just like QBall did in my other match.

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

ORIGINAL: castor troy

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Is there supposed to be a "GHOST" river between DH and Calcutta???????
It is not represented! How am I supposed to know!?

Com'on... ((((((

Sent only 3 divisions while the other 3 are still 15 miles away. They got impaled. Trashed 1 and half division completely. If I knew I would have sent them all at once...

really disappointed. I don't feel I did anything wrong here. The map is more than misleading.

Wanna cry[:(]

funny as it is, I had to find out the same in my ongoing PBEM vs khyberbill when I had 4000av crossing the river from Diamond Harbour into Calcutta. It was quite a surprise to see rivercrossing when ordering the units to march. Or should I call it shocking? The map is misleading and as it stands, Calcutta is the only hex I know that is surrounded by a river in every hex you can enter the town. Add in urban heavy and it is the hardest possible hex on the whole map to take. [:)] I had 4000av, only first line divisions. The river crossing resulted in more than 1000 disabled combat squads (all 100% prepped), caused by second line Indian troops, low experienced, trashed from previous combat, units by far not built out, many support units. Calcutta only got one downside, it can be bombarded from Sea.

I'll have barely 2200 AVs to face the enemy. So yes, i'm prepared to see my units trashed.
Surely that is a hell of a hex to invade...you can bomb it by river, yes, but you risk to trash the industry even more...
But i guess that there is no option once you get there...you need to accept the fact that you'll suffer the risk of trashin g the industry for the prize of conquering that key-city

The industry? [:)] When I kicked out the 100,000 Allied troops the industry was 100% damaged. 100%. If you go for the Indian area around Calcutta then the reason for this shouldn't be the industry because that is most like destroyed, nav bombardments or not. My heavy cruisers did daily shifting nav bombardments until they had sys damaged near 20 and all my AKE at Akyab were dry and couldn't pick up supply fast enough to rearm my fleet (and I had a lot of AKE there). The damage they did to the industry really wasn't notable but they really influenced the ground battles in my favour. Let alone that it meant Calcutta could not operate aircraft. There was so much flak there, I wouldn't even bomb from 25k and that wouldn't do damage anyway.

Looking at my campaign there my Allied opponent might find it cynical in his current situation if I say that I would just love to see an IJ opponent attack me in this area in spring 42 as there is no other area around that gives me such odds to defend. There are just two things to keep in mind, keep a mobile reserve and keep the raillines open which is no that hard to do vs 2 or max 3 para btn that can be bombed to dust within one turn.

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: castor troy

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

ORIGINAL: castor troy





funny as it is, I had to find out the same in my ongoing PBEM vs khyberbill when I had 4000av crossing the river from Diamond Harbour into Calcutta. It was quite a surprise to see rivercrossing when ordering the units to march. Or should I call it shocking? The map is misleading and as it stands, Calcutta is the only hex I know that is surrounded by a river in every hex you can enter the town. Add in urban heavy and it is the hardest possible hex on the whole map to take. [:)] I had 4000av, only first line divisions. The river crossing resulted in more than 1000 disabled combat squads (all 100% prepped), caused by second line Indian troops, low experienced, trashed from previous combat, units by far not built out, many support units. Calcutta only got one downside, it can be bombarded from Sea.

I'll have barely 2200 AVs to face the enemy. So yes, i'm prepared to see my units trashed.
Surely that is a hell of a hex to invade...you can bomb it by river, yes, but you risk to trash the industry even more...
But i guess that there is no option once you get there...you need to accept the fact that you'll suffer the risk of trashin g the industry for the prize of conquering that key-city

The industry? [:)] When I kicked out the 100,000 Allied troops the industry was 100% damaged. 100%. If you go for the Indian area around Calcutta then the reason for this shouldn't be the industry because that is most like destroyed, nav bombardments or not. My heavy cruisers did daily shifting nav bombardments until they had sys damaged near 20 and all my AKE at Akyab were dry and couldn't pick up supply fast enough to rearm my fleet (and I had a lot of AKE there). The damage they did to the industry really wasn't notable but they really influenced the ground battles in my favour. Let alone that it meant Calcutta could not operate aircraft. There was so much flak there, I wouldn't even bomb from 25k and that wouldn't do damage anyway.

Looking at my campaign there my Allied opponent might find it cynical in his current situation if I say that I would just love to see an IJ opponent attack me in this area in spring 42 as there is no other area around that gives me such odds to defend. There are just two things to keep in mind, keep a mobile reserve and keep the raillines open which is no that hard to do vs 2 or max 3 para btn that can be bombed to dust within one turn.

True, but in Jan 42, if Japan opens the other exit doors, any incoming allied army can be faced in the plains around Calcutta, with a total local air superiority. That's my plan at least...
Ok, so i'll follow your suggestion and use my CAs to bomb the city. I have 10 AKEs en route right for Diamond Harbour.
Clearly if Calcutta industry could fall intact or semi-intact....that would be a gift![:)]

[castor troy]

The date really is your main advantage at this point. I would bet your 2000+ have no chance at all taking Calcutta vs 1000+ Allied av including 18th Brit Div but hopefully for you I might be wrong about that. I just can't see it. [:D]

You just also have to keep in mind what he can bring in and what he gets as reinforcements. Much depends on how fast your opponent reacts, an enemy Army landing at DH would really alert me I can tell you that. I could fully focus all I had on the Calcutta area, the SRA cleared, Burma cleared, China in ruins and Northern Australia secured together with PM and the Australian trashed there. So my risk was really limited and still, after clearing Ceylon (enemy lost 600 av there), I was still facing a total of 5500-6000 av in the area around Calcutta all the way to Chittagong/Cox Bazar. And that was in April, so only more or less 2,5 months ahead of your date. There was just yesterday a nice little discussion in John3rd's AAR when he thought about sending 5 or 6 divisions to India and I chimed in saying this would be suizide [:D] and he should either concentrate on Australia or India.

The Japanese juggernaut works as long as you don't beat your head onto a wall and then one should just back down IMO. It won't help if you trash your highly experienced units and might even be routed at some point. As long as you can roll the Allied while you have a highly favourable numerical advantage it works in your way. If you get bogged down it's bad news. And then we are back at your river crossing into Calcutta with not even a 2:1 advantage when 1/3 of the av there is at least as good as your divisions, speaking about 18th Brit Div.

Will be interesting to see and I sure will follow it. Damn it you didn't do it before I had to undertake this operation. [;)]

[ny59giants]

I'm feeling more optimistic than Castor Troy at this point due to the date.

Once DH gets AF up to 2, I would have some Oscars on LRCAP over Calcutta to catch any attempts to airlift in any troops.

[Symon]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
Asked Erik if he's ok in re-doing the turn. I would send all the 6 divisions at once now that I know.
Alternatively, we could ask to some of the guru-map boys to modify that hex.

Let's first hear what Erik thinks about it

Yep, seems to be an anomaly in the data. It's on the Stock Map as well, so it's likely a carry-over from the initial map development.

If Erik says ok, I'll fix it for you. Pm me the pwhexe file you are using (you may have to zip it). I'll fix it right away and send both you and Erik the repaired version. I'll include a changelog so you both know exactly what was done.

Ciao. John

[witpqs]

BTW GJ, use the 'F6' toggle key to see hex side data. It might be masked if you also have the 'w' toggle on, or if you have a hex you are interested in selected (selection shows the white borders).

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: Symon

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
Asked Erik if he's ok in re-doing the turn. I would send all the 6 divisions at once now that I know.
Alternatively, we could ask to some of the guru-map boys to modify that hex.

Let's first hear what Erik thinks about it

Yep, seems to be an anomaly in the data. It's on the Stock Map as well, so it's likely a carry-over from the initial map development.

If Erik says ok, I'll fix it for you. Pm me the pwhexe file you are using (you may have to zip it). I'll fix it right away and send both you and Erik the repaired version. I'll include a changelog so you both know exactly what was done.

Ciao. John

if I would have just known that in my campaign before I had to cross that river... [:D]

[GreyJoy]

Ok gents,

talked to Erik and he's ok in letting John (Symon) correct the map! Erik is really Comprehensive about this matter. Couldn't ask for a better opponent

So there won't be any shock attack at Calcutta...we're waiting for the new map to arrive[:)]

Jan 26, 1942

waiting for DH to reach AF lvl 2, the Kaga and friends perform their last support mission near Calcutta, providing LRCAP for the 4 sentais of sallies that took off from Akyab to bomb Calcutta AF.
No opposition found so my guys did a good job anyway. The AF is bombed. Flak is light and forts stop building!
There's no sign of movement out of Calcutta, nor any indication that a relief force is coming. That is a very good news. I am, however, patrolling the nearby bases, looking for opportunities and traces of a RAF coming back...nothing

4 of my subs discovered that Obvert has laid mines at Penhir Island in order to defend the Yorktown... 4 subs hit mines at the very same day! That's almost a record[:o]. At least 3 of them won't get home... that's a pretty high price! I guess my dreams of getting the York end here...too much defence. Better to move out what is left of my pacific sub fleet and hope to catch here when she moves out.. pity!

At Clark we've made another DA... another 1-2 and forts back to 1... damn, at Luzon i'm really not doing any good! Bombers refuse to fly again...no opposition in the air but i know he's there waiting to get on me. A sentai of 20 Zeros is arriving at San Fernando however. This should quite rebalance the air situation there...hopefully.

CarDiv 1 is passing Sebang, moving towards Ceylon. There will be a lot of subs waiting for me. i've spotted them on western Sumatra for the last 3 days moving North...

Car Div 2 is moving from Timor to Java, escorting the 4th ID and a regiment of the 56th ID, along with base forces and the 16th Army HQ. Then we'll attack.

Now the Malaya strait is mined (heavily) and so is Merak. Enemy subs won't have an easy job coming and going from the DEI.


@Castor: really hope you are wrong there on Calcutta... even if i know you know this game pretty much...i hope to get some decent die&rolls when the first Attacks will be made... but god i know that it will be more than bloody...and not fast either. Hopefully, with a complete air superiority and some naval bombings i could cause enough distruption among the defenders to be able to get those odds you were talking about

[castor troy]

not having to shock attack across the river is a huge plus for you. Now depending on his forts and both sides' preparation a lot will come down to die rolls. I'd still bet on the defender in an urban heavy hex plus forts vs an attacker having a 2:1 numerical superiority but given the right die rolls it can work in any sides favour I guess.

From a defender's point of view, when if not in that case could one be optimistic to hold? Outnumbered 1:2 but having a 4:1 advantage due to terrain plus x forts. Will be interesting to see what really is defending there. Feels like a soccer bet, I got a favourite but once in a while the underdog wins. [:D] Fingers crossed.

And in 6-8 weeks there could be 4000av more in India if he wants to. As those wouldn't show up all at once, what happens if 2000+av are closing in on Calcutta in about 3-4 weeks? I only faced two US Inf Divs out of 6000 total enemy av (April that was), so if you take them out of the unit count, it was still 5300 av (Indian/Brit/Australian) that wasn't supposed to be anywhere else than India. Any plan for this? Is there a plan B other than taking Calcutta?

[Symon]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
...we're waiting for the new map to arrive[:)]

In your email inbox. [;)]

[sanch]

ORIGINAL: Symon

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
...we're waiting for the new map to arrive[:)]

In your email inbox. [;)]

Now that's service! How many 5-year-old games get this kind of support? Good job and well done!

[GreyJoy]

So John (Symon) managed to do his magic! Thanks a lot!!!!

We now have a land bridge between DH and Calcutta[:D]

Jan 27-28, 1942

INDIA:
The allies are advancing towards Calcutta, while my troops are 2 miles far from the town... getting tense!
Calcutta is bombed daily now by 100 IJAAF bombers. 150 Zeros and 50 Oscars are dominating the skies, vacated by the RAAF and the USAAF...for the moment.
The 55th ID is now re.grouping at Hawraw (NW of Calcutta), while the Imperial ID is loading at Singa.
Cruisers are ready to bomb the city.
What if the allies bring in more divisions...???
CAr Div 1 is approaching Ceylon, while Car Div 2 is escorting the 4th ID and the last regiment of the 56th ID to Java, along with the 16th Army HQ, 4 base forces and some artillery units.

LUZON: enemy fighters do not come today. Zeros are now present at San Fernando. Should end the opposition here.

CHINA: another ambush and 20 lilies go down in flames Zeros are coming here too... the AVG sweep Shangai! Damn... need some more fighters in China!

PACIFIC: one of my subs lurking around Thaiti finds the CA Salt Lake City and miss her with 4 torps [:@]... the Yorktown is safe for the moment... my subs are spreading away from the Penhir Island after a minefield has been laid there and 4 of my subs got hit...badly...will lose 2 of them [:(]