Empire of the Sun - DesertWolf101 (J) vs Andy Mac (A)

[RangerJoe]

Fuel storage explosions should increase the fires. Did you bring the hot dogs and marshmallows?

[Bif1961]

The B-18 Bolo was favored over the B-17 because of budgetary concerns, you could buy 2 B-18s fro each B-17 so would you like half your projected bomber squadrons not to have planes was the thinking in 1939.

[RangerJoe]

No, the B-17 crashed during the trials so it lost.

[Bif1961]

Actually it was both but the budget boys argued for more planes for the growing Army Air Corps, but they allowed the B-17 to keep being developed as they contracted for the B-18 to equip the bomber squadrons. Some B-17s (17 plus prototype), were acquired for coastal defense and that made the navy angry, whoever by early 1942 the B-18s were reassigned to transport and coastal defense while the B-17s were then being sent to the Heavy Bomber squadrons that previously had been equipt with B-18s. Just one of those ironies of war.

[DesertWolf101]

March 14, 1942

Submarines

Near Pearl Harbor, I-168 attempts to hit DD Jarvis with four torpedoes but misses. I have rarely noted these types of attacks before, but my subs have attempted to hit Allied destroyers at least a dozen times thus far in the war but with no success.

India

The 6th and 7th Australian divisions are now confirmed to be in Bengal. A brigade of the 7th was already encountered earlier at Diamond Harbor and the rest of the division is spread out around different bases. The 6th however is combined and located at Calcutta as the Japanese cruiser bombardment highlighted when it heavily shelled the unit this turn.

A squadron of Fulmar II aircraft and later on in the afternoon 8 Blenheim IV bombers attempted to hit Japanese shipping at Diamond Harbor but both formations were intercepted and shattered by defending Zeros and Oscars.

Bay of Bengal

Battleships Kongo and Haruna and six destroyer escorts raced after the damaged British carrier task force and encountered them during the day. The destroyer Napier was escorting the heavily damaged CV Indomitable and CA Cornwall, and all three were rapidly put down in a flurry of torpedo strikes. These and the other British warships destroyed recently largely make up for the naval losses I sustained earlier in Operation Bengal Tiger, but I think overall I would rather have my CVLs back.

China

The fifth Japanese assault goes in against Chunking and reduces fortification levels to 1. This time however the Japanese army is well and truly exhausted and needs more than a day of rest. I am attempting to bring up more reinforcements but at the same time numerous destroyed Chinese formations keep reforming at Chungking, which greatly complicates matters.

To the north, Japanese forces finally arrive at Yenan and take it.

[DesertWolf101]

March 15, 1942

Submarines

Near Ceylon, I-154 sends a spread of six torps at heavy cruiser Exeter. Three of the torpedoes connect, but one fails to explode. I was surprised to see however that despite two good torpedo hits no heavy damage was reported during the combat report. Unfortunately, this likely means that the heavy cruiser will make it to a friendly port.

South of Hawaii, I-171 attacks and sinks AKL Surigao in a surface attack.

South Pacific

Under the cover of the heavy guns of four battleships and six heavy and light cruisers, a Japanese amphibious force disembarked the 4th Division and the Guards Brigade at Pago Pago. Fierce resistance from the Marine coastal guns cost me an AK however, and some damage to a few of the cruisers.

A significant Marine force is present at Pago Pago, consisting of the 8th Marine Regiment, the 2nd and 7th Marine Defense Battalions, the Samoan Marine Battalion, and three base forces. Hopefully with the sustained support of the naval guns I will eventually wear down this defense.

India

The 1st Tank Regiment overextended itself in the advance around Calcutta and paid the price when it was pushed back with heavy loss at Jessore by the 84th Indian Brigade and the 3rd Caribiniers Regiment.

Burma

The Japanese 143rd infantry regiment and some AT guns land at Akyab.

10 Blenheim IV bombers attempted to hit the Magwe airfields but were harshly dealt with by Zeros on CAP.

[DesertWolf101]

March 16, 1942

Turns have slowed down quite a bit over the last week as my opponent is in the middle of a vacation.

Northern Australia

Japanese forces, spearheaded by three infantry regiments, land at Wyndham in northern Australia. I am attempting to move quickly here and land forces before the invasion bonus is over.

India

29 P-38E fighters sweep Diamond Harbor this turn. My first encounter with the lightening was not too bad. I lost six Zeros and one Oscar but shot down 7 P-38s. What’s more, only two Japanese pilots were KIA/MIA given the fight took place over Japanese territory.

Burma

Oscars on CAP maul 10 Vildebeest torpedo bombers that were attempting to hit my offloading transport ships at Akyab. The disembarked Japanese infantry regiment seizes the hex.

[DesertWolf101]

March 17, 1942

India

Four B-17E bombers are shot down over Diamond Harbor as they attempt to hit my docked shipping there to no effect. A smaller P-38E sweep of nine fighters comes in this turn but does much better than the last one. I lose six fighters for no kills on the Lightenings.

Northern Australia

Japanese forces take Wyndham and begin their march towards Katherine.

Philippines

The Japanese 65th Brigade lands at Cebu with the aim of taking the last Allied held base in the Philippines outside of Luzon.

[DesertWolf101]

Tackling Atolls

Would like to seek some advice on taking Atolls. I have never assaulted a well defended Atoll and want to make sure I am covering my bases.

Say there is an Atoll with max stacking of 6,000 and medium level forts. The base has good troops but at least one base force so not all are combat forces. Is an allocation of two infantry regiments with 100% prep generally sufficient for the task or nowhere near enough?

If I bring battleship and heavy cruiser forces in support, is the best approach to embed all these heavy warships directly into the amphib task force or to use some (Half?) in a separate bombardment task force that hits right before the landing?

Finally, I am thinking of perhaps creating a separate TF that is only carrying supply to ensure that enough is available for the landing force. Am I on the right track?

Thanks!

[Evoken]

Lowpe's reply to RADM Yamaguchi is pretty educative about atoll defense

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

re question on Atoll defense, quick answer is it depends.[:)]

Is the Atoll isolated or part of a chain.

Can the Atoll be bypassed or is its defense critical (Marcus and Wake come to mind as early critical isolated Atolls that may justify a strong defense).

On critical, isolated, atolls I have stopped invasions with a slightly overstacked mixed force defense. Given how naval bombardments work, the armored car unit generally speaking will never be targeted. Tanks would be even better.

Heavy Artillery
Cd guns
Some Mines
20mm AA
SNLF
JNAF Eng Unit
Armored Car unit.
High Forts

This defense will buy time for a response of some type and require a major commitment from the Allies to take. You should spot the invasion force 1-2 days out. Allies will normally unload everything in one turn and flee.

You have to decide what to invest in an Atoll defense and what its goals are to be. Road block, Stonewall, trap are the three major types that come to mind.

[DesertWolf101]

ORIGINAL: Evoken

Lowpe's reply to RADM Yamaguchi is pretty educative about atoll defense

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

re question on Atoll defense, quick answer is it depends.[:)]

Is the Atoll isolated or part of a chain.

Can the Atoll be bypassed or is its defense critical (Marcus and Wake come to mind as early critical isolated Atolls that may justify a strong defense).

On critical, isolated, atolls I have stopped invasions with a slightly overstacked mixed force defense. Given how naval bombardments work, the armored car unit generally speaking will never be targeted. Tanks would be even better.

Heavy Artillery
Cd guns
Some Mines
20mm AA
SNLF
JNAF Eng Unit
Armored Car unit.
High Forts

This defense will buy time for a response of some type and require a major commitment from the Allies to take. You should spot the invasion force 1-2 days out. Allies will normally unload everything in one turn and flee.

You have to decide what to invest in an Atoll defense and what its goals are to be. Road block, Stonewall, trap are the three major types that come to mind.

Thanks for pointing me to that. In this case I am planning to do the attacking but some of those points are still applicable.

[RangerJoe]

Bring a division. Some armour if you can. Bombard with BBs and have heavy ships (CAs) in the invasion TF. Have a ship loaded with nothing but supply in the invasion TF. I advise Allies to use APDs for that. The same for the Japanese but they also get to use the other escorting vessels. Make a Fast Transport TF, load the ships with supplies only, put those loaded combat vessels in your invasion TF for the escorts and to subdue the enemy guns but they will also unload the supplies as well.

If you have naval air superiority and the enemy ships are not around, LRCAP the hex but also bomb the ground units with Kates plus any LBA in range which has a Naval Strike first, Ground Attack second with that base as the target.

Use Glen subs with air search as picket ships to cover the invasion with other subs in front of them. Your DEW system at sea, so to speak.

If you have Rufes, set them to 6000 feet for anti-torpedo bomber defense as well as abti Flying Boat defence.

[Alamander]

Much depends on the composition, experience, and ToEs or the enemy force. If it is just some light low experience infantry (New Zealand or Australian early war stuff) a regiment and an SNLF with a heavy BB bombardment probably will suffice. If it is higher experience infantry, such as a Marine battalion, with some artillery support and maybe some anti-tank or tanks, this will be much, much harder and probably will require a large combined arms overstack in addition to sustained bombardment over a couple days to build disruption in the infantry as well as any guns.

With the amphib bonus, atoll invasions for Japan are not too difficult as you will get almost everything ashore in a day even with a limited number of ships disembarking. Things are much more difficult after the amphib bonus expires, since you will have to rely completely on AKs and the LSDs to unload both troops and supplies. You will have a hard time getting enough supplies ashore for a large overstack, even with a TF dedicated exclusively to supply. A TF dedicated to supply, composed of AKs exclusively is a good idea even with the amphib bonus, and essential without it.

I don't typically use BBs in my amphibious TFs. I use them in bombardment TFs almost exclusively. I fill out the amphib TFs with CLs though depending on the number of coastal guns present: 2, 3, 4, or even 5 CLs. Having an AMC or 2 in each amphib TFs is helpful as well. Combined with a BB bombardment on the same turn, the CLs in the amphib group will use up all the coastal guns operation points, so they do not fire on the transports. Also, the CLs do not often get hit by coastal artillery. BBs in the amphib group will suppress the coastal guns somewhat, but a single BB or even 2 in an invasion TF is not going to use up any more operation points than they would in a bombardment TF. I have not lost a single ship to coastal artillery in my game with Mike so far, and if I recall correctly, his coastal guns have only hit 1 AMC in total in the entire game.

Since many of your xAKs do not upgrade to AKs until June (I think this is the case in stock as well as DBB- though I might be mistaken), if you don't get your atoll invasion completed by April 1, you may have to wait until the end of June to have enough AKs to unload both troops and supplies in one day, unless you use almost every AK available.

Don't forget mines and the possibility that he can create some PTs just prior to your landing. Coastal guns combined with mines and PT boats is deadly, especially for BBs: another reason I don't like embedding BBs in my amphib groups.

[RangerJoe]

You could also put your units onto a Fast Transport TF composed of Cruisers and Destroyers and they will unload fast, fire suppression on the enemy, and be able to defend themselves. Combine that with a BB Bombardment TF and the enemy can be overwhelmed without an amphibious TF around to alert the enemy. Those TFs can also move a lot faster to get into and out of Harm's Way.

[Alamander]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

You could also put your units onto a Fast Transport TF composed of Cruisers and Destroyers and they will unload fast, fire suppression on the enemy, and be able to defend themselves. Combine that with a BB Bombardment TF and the enemy can be overwhelmed without an amphibious TF around to alert the enemy. Those TFs can also move a lot faster to get into and out of Harm's Way.

In an atoll invasion, you will need to unload in both night and day phases (so setting up 3 or 4 hexes away and moving in at night is a must). The coastal guns will fire in both phases of unloading, so you want something that will stick around to unload for both phases and that will have enough ammunition and staying power, embedded in the amphib groups to draw the fire of the coastal guns twice. A fast transport group can supplement the invasion, but it will only be around probably for one phase, offering no assistance in the second. Seems to me that any ships in such a TF would serve better embedded in bombardment or amphibious TFs.

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: Alamander

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

You could also put your units onto a Fast Transport TF composed of Cruisers and Destroyers and they will unload fast, fire suppression on the enemy, and be able to defend themselves. Combine that with a BB Bombardment TF and the enemy can be overwhelmed without an amphibious TF around to alert the enemy. Those TFs can also move a lot faster to get into and out of Harm's Way.

In an atoll invasion, you will need to unload in both night and day phases (so setting up 3 or 4 hexes away and moving in at night is a must). The coastal guns will fire in both phases of unloading, so you want something that will stick around to unload for both phases and that will have enough ammunition and staying power, embedded in the amphib groups to draw the fire of the coastal guns twice. A fast transport group can supplement the invasion, but it will only be around probably for one phase, offering no assistance in the second. Seems to me that any ships in such a TF would serve better embedded in bombardment or amphibious TFs.

Only use the FT TF to invade.

[DesertWolf101]

Thank you Alamander and Joe, some very helpful suggestions there. [&o]

[Alamander]

One other little tip. Early in the war, Japan has 4, I think, CLs that can drop mines: Tenryu, Tatsuta, and the 2 Yuri (... correction Kuma) class, if I recall correctly. (I think it is the same in stock). I love embedding these in amphib groups in which I suspect there might be a delayed response by enemy SAGs or a wolfpack of subs: especially early in the game to counter Houston, Boise, Marblehead, et al. The turn after the troops land, I separate them off by themselves as a mine-laying TF, drop mines, and "return to base."

The nice thing about using this tactic several times early in the game is that you accustom your opponent to be wary of mines everywhere you go. You can do the same with minelaying subs, of course. You can also bring along a mini-sub TF with the amphib groups and drop off the mini-sub on the turn of the assault to give you instant, layered, base defense.

[RangerJoe]

You can also do that with Ansyu PBs which can carry 15 mines. They can also be loaded with supplies for an invasion.

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101

Tackling Atolls

Would like to seek some advice on taking Atolls. I have never assaulted a well defended Atoll and want to make sure I am covering my bases.

Say there is an Atoll with max stacking of 6,000 and medium level forts. The base has good troops but at least one base force so not all are combat forces. Is an allocation of two infantry regiments with 100% prep generally sufficient for the task or nowhere near enough?

If I bring battleship and heavy cruiser forces in support, is the best approach to embed all these heavy warships directly into the amphib task force or to use some (Half?) in a separate bombardment task force that hits right before the landing?

Finally, I am thinking of perhaps creating a separate TF that is only carrying supply to ensure that enough is available for the landing force. Am I on the right track?

Thanks!

The number one thing to always keep at the forefront of any atoll invasion is that every automatic attack is a shock attack. Every time you land supply after D-day, you will generate an automatic shock attack. Launching a shock attack after a failed shock attack is not good.

Prime lesson, capture the atoll on D-day. Do not plan to capture the atoll on D-day +1, or D-day +2.

Alfred