The return of tristanjohn

[Mr.Frag]

Send me some Frag. Our current regime has an irrational prejudice against the boys down there.

Bah, you guys come up here and kidnap us and take us back there and put us in jail (funny how your jail is *** IN *** Cuba) for doing that.

[Oznoyng]

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker
And I was just thinking...why not get folks to post their respective logistical situations (Japanese and Allied) with pertinent summary details of their ops and geographical expansion from their games? More the merrier. After all, 1 example is not a proper test pack.

Find me someone that did not execute the Brave Sir Robin and actually forced Japan to expend supply to conquer the SRA. Find me someone that didn't evac all the Engineer units so they could save them to set up Allied airbases sooner, then complained about excess supply because the oil and resources were taken largely intact.

[mdiehl]

Hell, since forever. Just go check your score on the old Zero debate.

Exactly. So I'm just saying that I think Mogami is right at least about the effects of continuing the conversation. I think yer gonna rail on for a long time about this to no end and nothing will be done.

Which is why I suggest there are better things for you to be doing. I happen to think Mogami is a great guy. He might even agree with some of the things we've concluded to some degree. But he's not going to get any changes made at this point and you're not giving him any ammo with which to work. Ergo...

there must be something more fun to do.

Yeah, WitP *could* have been the Great Pacific Simulation Game that some of us wanted. It's not. It won't be. Don't make this the Last Great Thing You Wanted To See Before You Die or whatever. That's what I mean about the way cool scientist, being in a Jim Butcher novel in some fashion, or for that matter any of a dozen pleasant alternatives to battling over WitP. Remember what Warren Zevon said in his last days? "Enjoy every sandwich."

I'm just hanging around here to get you to lay off Mogami whom I like, to convince you (whom I like) that you don't need to have a cornary event over this, and to force Mogami to confront my joke.

HEY MOGAMI.

"Freedom 75" GET IT? Spoiler below....
















"Freedom 75" is to X as "Freedom Fries" are to French Fries.
Geesh, I know it was lame humour but at least you could have groaned or something.
Tough crowd I guess. [>:]

[mogami]

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

CHS extended map or nothing.

Ron - Go play CHS as Japan against the AI ... speed play it ... post your Jan 1st, 1943 save game file ... don't care about anything inbetween, don't need any aar's. The AI will not do a "sir robin"

TJ - I'm putting my money where my mouth is ... get writing.

Hi....Daddy how much does Pilsner Urquell cost where you live? Can I come home now?[&o]

[moses]

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

I'm amazed that a simple please all suggestion like seperate resources from supply (make it adjustable within the editor) has so many detractors when PDUs were a much more complex endeavour yet this was done.

I'm not sure there are many who don't like this specific idea. Among all the noise on this thread I haven't heard this specific idea shot down. It sounds like a reasonable idea to me.

There are so many other things in this thread combined with a generaly angry atmosphere that keeps anyone from focusing on any specific thing.

[Rob322]

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

Send me some Frag. Our current regime has an irrational prejudice against the boys down there.

Bah, you guys come up here and kidnap us and take us back there and put us in jail (funny how your jail is *** IN *** Cuba) for doing that.

We're kidnapping you to get at the cigars ... we figured sending you to Cubs would provide a subtle point to our madness. [;)]

[Tristanjohn]

ORIGINAL: Mogami

ORIGINAL: moses

I don't see that there is anything to test. AB's suggestion is long term supply neutral. Am I missing something?? All my suggestions are long term supply neutral. They have only short term effects.

The suggestion made by AB and others to have the resourse centers produce only resourses and then just produce compensating supply at the HI should result in nearly identical long term supply. It just puts a little extra strain on Japanese shipping. It makes the initial offensive just a tiny bit more difficult. If gives allied subs a few more targets. It makes a little more work for the Japanese player. Beyond that its just a value judgement. Are these thing you want or not?

If people are talking about an entire rebuild of supply then who is listening?

Hi, Moses I'm wishing they test scenario 15 as is just so they discover that many Japanese never touch the supply in SRA at all. They might use it in the hex it is created after the SRA fight is over. Myself I send many AK to Toboali to pickup resources. If there was 0 supply they would come loaded with as much as Toboali required but no extra Japanese AK would be sub targets. Toboali might generate enough interest to send AK for pick up once or twice a year but I don't think so. It's one of the last places I go in SRA because of air proximity to Singapore Palembang and Bataivia . You need to secure these first. If you take any major production center while it remains in Allied air range the B-17 or Martins come and damage it and the AK can't move there becasue of air attack.

If there is any impact because of SRA supply generation it is felt post SRA conquest. The supply for expanding into South or Central Pacific has to come from Home Islands. The SRA supply is used to maintain SRA bases where no fighting is occuring and the Japanese discover the best place for replacement aircraft is Japan. Now there are Japanese players who use the SRA to train airgroups they keep a small enemy base and bomb it with all their untrained pilots every turn. I am certain they are using local supply for this. I am just as certain they could import supply as well.

The simple fact remains that in many games the SRA requires over 1,000,000 supply imported from Japan to repair the damage before it produces this supply or even produces oil and resources. I think RS and TJ are simply going by 100 percent of SRA being active during the period Japan has the strength to move beyond SRA and meting the offensive requirments with SRA produced supply.

I think if they actually take the time to simply run Japan long enough to secure from Rangoon south and east to Timor they will find they did it without SRA produced supply. If they attempt to do it I would be satisfied they are sincere. Without their even playing Japan they are only quessing. Ron because he believes what he believes (but he tends to leap to conclusions without data) And TJ because that is what he does.

I can't speak to the best Japanese strategy as I haven't played it enough or deeply enough into the game. However, the Allies can easily strip the SRA of all sorts of supply and use that to help to fortify Northern and Western Australia, as well as Port Moresby, and Milne Bay, too, if they want. I know. I've done it repeatedly with the Allies just to demonstrate conclusively (to myself at least) that the logistics model simply doesn't work. It allows all sorts of false play all over the board. Now assuming the Allies didn't strip the SRA (which, given the way the system is laid out now, I believe they should), then perhaps the Japanese will need that supply once they take it over and start making repairs. But I don't see how that makes the logistics model any more convincing.

[Rob322]

ORIGINAL: moses

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

I'm amazed that a simple please all suggestion like seperate resources from supply (make it adjustable within the editor) has so many detractors when PDUs were a much more complex endeavour yet this was done.

I'm not sure there are many who don't like this specific idea. Among all the noise on this thread I haven't heard this specific idea shot down. It sounds like a reasonable idea to me.

There are so many other things in this thread combined with a generaly angry atmosphere that keeps anyone from focusing on any specific thing.

Bingo, yelling and fights and insults is not the way that either side is going to listen to one another, but by all means continue. [8D]

[Mr.Frag]

Beer prices here, i'd be broke in a week [:(]

Canada has two taxes that completely support the country ... the Beer tax and the Smokes tax ... I once figured it out and it scared me ... after the standard 40% tax I pay, I then get hosed 15% sales tax on everything I spend, then I get hosed about 480% on smokes and 300% on beer ...

Ron can tell you all about what a bottle cost him in his bar ... it is SHOCKING just how much we are taxed up here.

[Tristanjohn]

ORIGINAL: Rob322

ORIGINAL: Tristanjohn

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag




Ron - Go play CHS as Japan against the AI ... speed play it ... post your Jan 1st, 1943 save game file ... don't care about anything inbetween, don't need any aar's. The AI will not do a "sir robin"

TJ - I'm putting my money where my mouth is ... get writing.

Wow! That beats me!

(youmusthackafanciercab...orsmokecheapercigars)

Did you do the exchange rate?

That's right, we're talking funny money here. Hey! I'm (relatively speaking) richer than I thought! [:D]

[Nikademus]

I'm done.

Mogami was right.

[Tristanjohn]

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

smokecheapercigars

Cuban's are legal here [:D]

And outrageously expensive last time I checked. I can barely afford my JRs. [:(]

[Rob322]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

I'm done.

Mogami was right.

No, NO, NO! The answer is ... Rosebud ...

[Nikademus]

your popcorn is burning......

[Oznoyng]

ORIGINAL: Tristanjohn
But seriously, that's probably the reason this game turned out so bad. Gary just plunged ahead with his little head already full of his "design document" (based on his other similar Pacific systems) without any thought whatsoever if that made a whole lot of sense.

I will have to search a bit, but that is probably the most arrogant thing I've seen posted on the boards in a long time.

[mogami]

ORIGINAL: mdiehl

Hell, since forever. Just go check your score on the old Zero debate.

Exactly. So I'm just saying that I think Mogami is right at least about the effects of continuing the conversation. I think yer gonna rail on for a long time about this to no end and nothing will be done.

Which is why I suggest there are better things for you to be doing. I happen to think Mogami is a great guy. He might even agree with some of the things we've concluded to some degree. But he's not going to get any changes made at this point and you're not giving him any ammo with which to work. Ergo...

there must be something more fun to do.

Yeah, WitP *could* have been the Great Pacific Simulation Game that some of us wanted. It's not. It won't be. Don't make this the Last Great Thing You Wanted To See Before You Die or whatever. That's what I mean about the way cool scientist, being in a Jim Butcher novel in some fashion, or for that matter any of a dozen pleasant alternatives to battling over WitP. Remember what Warren Zevon said in his last days? "Enjoy every sandwich."

I'm just hanging around here to get you to lay off Mogami whom I like, to convince you (whom I like) that you don't need to have a cornary event over this, and to force Mogami to confront my joke.

HEY MOGAMI.

"Freedom 75" GET IT? Spoiler below....
















"Freedom 75" is to X as "Freedom Fries" are to French Fries.
Geesh, I know it was lame humour but at least you could have groaned or something.
Tough crowd I guess. [>:]

Hi, Thanks Mike you said it. WITP as far as major changes go is not the platform where such changes can be or will be made. It is alas too weak a foundation to support the added weight of so many new models. Time to work on the next one and TJ can be the guy who writes the directions the programmers use. It has to be exactly what he wants since he will be the fountain it springs from. Mr Frag will pay for it and everyone will buy it and peace will reign forever and ever. What are we waiting for?

[Nikademus]

And Ron will be the tester.

[Mr.Frag]

And Ron will be the tester.

Oh, god no! as he will refuse to actually play the game AGAIN!

[mogami]

Hi, LOL OMG in my game with Brady it is late 1943. Toboali is cut off (Allied bombers sink everything that gets near Formosa) it has 2 baseforce units and a size 3 airfield but any Japanese airgroup that would move there would be destroyed the same turn.

To the point. The base is fully developed and no Japanese ships or air units have been there for many months but it has 90,000 supply. (and over 400,000 resource) back at home production is slowed to a crawl. He landed up north and will have bombers in range as far South as Sendai soon.


What I need instead of a "pick up troops" order for airtransport or fast transport TF is a "pick up supply/resource" order

[Nikademus]

Yikes....my game isn't so desperate yet. Lunga, Timor, and Burma are being leveled into future golf fields but nothing vital is being hurt.