Bring me the head of Diego Garcia...and the Mayor of Addu Atoll too!

[rtrapasso]

ORIGINAL: hartwig.modrow

rtrapasso,

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso
There is a WORLD of difference between how doctors get paid and how lawyers get paid... the doctors rates are "negotiated" and set by insurance companies, the government, etc. Not so lawyers (for the most part).

Well... probably depends on the country. In Germany, I would say there is a world of difference between how doctors/lawyers and doctors/lawyers get paid.

Here, there are doctors - especially radiologists - that can easily compete with or beat a lawyer who charges a high price per hour. There are lawyers (the ones whose clients can only afford to pay according to the RVG, a German law setting standard attorney fees as a function of the value of the case, not the time spent on it - of course, your client can agree to pay more, but that means he really wants that lawyer) who make significantly less than a general practicioner, set rates and all.

If you negotiate to pay a lawyer $500+ an hour, well, that's what you will end up paying, most likely. If a surgeon bills you $20,000 for an operation, he may end up with 1/10th that (or less).

I guess less. But that is exactly my point - from the bill, it is difficult to derive what the person gets, and that is what is being done here.

EDIT: Admittedly, the lawyer will have some expenses, but i am willing to bet they are not $400/hour.

Well, of course this lawyer is most likely not a poor man, and as I said at the beginning of my post - I am not going to defend the high rate or claim that it is reasonable that the market will pay that price. At the same time, I am still not comfortable with the "per billed hour" assessment of expenses (which, btw, grow with the fee you charge). If you run your own business (at least with lower hourly fees) you usually are quite aware of the number of hours you have to bill before your expenses are met and you start making money. That makes you a bit sensitive if people tend to assume they can calculate your income by multiplying the hourly fee you charge with 40-50 hours per week.

Hartwig

Maybe things are different in Germany, however, Mandrake is in California... here doctor's fees are set by various agencies.

Lawyers fees (unless you are doing public defender cases, etc.) are not (afaik). $500+ an hour is more than anything i've ever heard of outside of high-profile corporate law, and that is the rate for the company, not the lawyer (which he made a point of saying was not the case, iirc - addition $100+ an hour for paralegals, etc).

Possibly this guy is a "one off", but if he is charging $500+ an hour, he is almost definitely off the chart in being a lot higher than in the 2% top percentile. More like 0.1 - 0.2%

[anarchyintheuk]

Depending on the case, jurisdiction, etc., the attornies may also have to prove up their fees and expenses. As such they are subject to local guidlines on allowable rates.

[rtrapasso]

ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk

Depending on the case, jurisdiction, etc., the attornies may also have to prove up their fees and expenses. As such they are subject to local guidlines on allowable rates.

AFAIK - those are only related to the "percentages" that they can take in contingency trials, not what they can contract with you for as an hourly rate ...(again, unless it is a public defender, where the state/municipality pays for the lawyer directly).

Contingency fees will have little to do with hourly rates from what i understand.

[anarchyintheuk]

You're correct, there are caps on contingency fees. However, as an example of the above, in Probate Court in Dallas there are guidelines limiting hourly rates by years of experience/certification, etc. Those have to be proven up before being awarded and paid.

In any event, there's nothing to keep you from negotiating a hard cap to a fee agreement provided the service required can be easily defined (I need a will, poa, hpoa, etc.) or a negotiating his hourly rate. If he says no, find someone else.

[Mynok]

Can you negotiate a hard cap if you need a bureaucrat offed?

[BrucePowers]

What happened to the war?[:D]

[rtrapasso]

ORIGINAL: Mynok


Can you negotiate a hard cap if you need a bureaucrat offed?

Depends on what branch of the mob you are dealing with.

[rtrapasso]

ORIGINAL: BrucePowers

What happened to the war?[:D]

i think we are waiting for the WJD's to send a turn...

[Cap Mandrake]

The WJD's sent a turn!


***********July 15, 1942***********

Fiji: More WJD sweeps over Suva but they are somewhat disorganized and the Marines and P-39's hold their own. Jap fighters were moved to Noumea after the succesful B-17 raid there. Intel suggests a CV in harbor at Noumea. Maybe, but I doubt it. Dangerous place to leave a CV. Enterprise headed Sydney for July upgrade. Replacement F4F's taken at Suva. There are no P-39's to be had. I will bring another 3/4 strength P-39 squadron from Pearl. This would be a good time to upgrade some P-40's to P-38's except the restricted squadrons in the US are hogging them all.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk

You're correct, there are caps on contingency fees. However, as an example of the above, in Probate Court in Dallas there are guidelines limiting hourly rates by years of experience/certification, etc. Those have to be proven up before being awarded and paid.

In any event, there's nothing to keep you from negotiating a hard cap to a fee agreement provided the service required can be easily defined (I need a will, poa, hpoa, etc.) or a negotiating his hourly rate. If he says no, find someone else.

For attorneys, perhaps. For other 'contract' specialties, the only cap exists in the marketplace.

I've had the pleasure of being under contract for a multinational corporation working with the DOD in some capacity development issues abroad, back in the day. I got to name my own fees.

When the CPAs for the multinational balked at my stated rates, I rationalized it based upon my qualifications, their needs and my willingness to travel to some 'non-touristy' places. It raised some eyebrows, but went through regardless.

I have made no apologies for my seemingly usurious rates, nor will I now. If underachieving CEOs can make tens of millions $USD annually, someone with marketable and needed skills and experience should be able to dictate terms of their employment as the market would see fit to bear.

In the case of a HOAA attorney, I can't imagine the need for a $500/hr. attorney for goodness sake. Someone's not being fiduciarily responsible at the HOAA.

HOAA taxpayer revolt!

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

The WJD's sent a turn!


***********July 15, 1942***********

Fiji: More WJD sweeps over Suva but they are somewhat disorganized and the Marines and P-39's hold their own. Jap fighters were moved to Noumea after the succesful B-17 raid there. Intel suggests a CV in harbor at Noumea. Maybe, but I doubt it. Dangerous place to leave a CV. Enterprise headed Sydney for July upgrade. Replacement F4F's taken at Suva. There are no P-39's to be had. I will bring another 3/4 strength P-39 squadron from Pearl. This would be a good time to upgrade some P-40's to P-38's except the restricted squadrons in the US are hogging them all.

Eh? Aren't you playing with PDU on? Can't you 'upgrade' those restricted squadrons to your crappola P-26s and P-43s?

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk

Depending on the case, jurisdiction, etc., the attornies may also have to prove up their fees and expenses. As such they are subject to local guidlines on allowable rates.

AFAIK - those are only related to the "percentages" that they can take in contingency trials, not what they can contract with you for as an hourly rate ...(again, unless it is a public defender, where the state/municipality pays for the lawyer directly).

Contingency fees will have little to do with hourly rates from what i understand.

I know of one case where (according to the client, grain of salt required) the contingency fee was for a certain %, say 25 or 30%. When the case was settled and the disputed real estate acquired, the attorney calculated his fee without considering the mortgage on the property so it came out to ~50%.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

In the case of a HOAA attorney, I can't imagine the need for a $500/hr. attorney for goodness sake. Someone's not being fiduciarily responsible at the HOAA.

When I owned a condo in a 8-unit building we were all pretty much running the condo association. During one of my tours of keeping the books, dealing with miscellaneous crap, and holding a title, one of the owners was a frequent non-payer (the fee was like $110/month where in the area most fees were closer to mortgage payment size). This guy was so late we finally put a lien on the unit so he couldn't just walk out on the debt. Lo and behold, he tried to do just that. After getting his unit on the market, and selling it he discovered that he couldn't close with the lien in place, which I think was for less than $1,500. He sweet talked our attorney, who told me that he had promised to pay as soon as the closing was completed (within 3 days when funds cleared or whatever), and suggested we go ahead with it. I suggested that she loan him the money, which - strangely - she didn't!

[Cap Mandrake]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

The WJD's sent a turn!


***********July 15, 1942***********

Fiji: More WJD sweeps over Suva but they are somewhat disorganized and the Marines and P-39's hold their own. Jap fighters were moved to Noumea after the succesful B-17 raid there. Intel suggests a CV in harbor at Noumea. Maybe, but I doubt it. Dangerous place to leave a CV. Enterprise headed Sydney for July upgrade. Replacement F4F's taken at Suva. There are no P-39's to be had. I will bring another 3/4 strength P-39 squadron from Pearl. This would be a good time to upgrade some P-40's to P-38's except the restricted squadrons in the US are hogging them all.

Eh? Aren't you playing with PDU on? Can't you 'upgrade' those restricted squadrons to your crappola P-26s and P-43s?

Ummmmmmmmm????? Beats me. I have been trying to get rid of the P-26's but nobody wants them. I have P-43's in Seattle and Anchorage and even sent one squadron to the South Pacific for rear area use.

Here is what happens when I try to "upgrade" a restricted P-39 squdron to P-26's

[Cap Mandrake]

By ra way, the prospective atty. was for a corporate by-laws rewrite, not the HOA.

I have met the HOA atty. I we are paying that guy $540 an hr I will pass a brick.

[Cap Mandrake]

We have 36 x P-38's in San Francisico in restricted commands. They can't "upgrade" to anything, even P-39's. Instead, they are training and flying escort missions for the airships. [:)]

There are also 2 squadrons of P-43's in SF. Any restircted B-17 squadron that could be tricked into accepting Hudsons or B-18's has already done so.

[rtrapasso]

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

The WJD's sent a turn!


***********July 15, 1942***********

Fiji: More WJD sweeps over Suva but they are somewhat disorganized and the Marines and P-39's hold their own. Jap fighters were moved to Noumea after the succesful B-17 raid there. Intel suggests a CV in harbor at Noumea. Maybe, but I doubt it. Dangerous place to leave a CV. Enterprise headed Sydney for July upgrade. Replacement F4F's taken at Suva. There are no P-39's to be had. I will bring another 3/4 strength P-39 squadron from Pearl. This would be a good time to upgrade some P-40's to P-38's except the restricted squadrons in the US are hogging them all.

Eh? Aren't you playing with PDU on? Can't you 'upgrade' those restricted squadrons to your crappola P-26s and P-43s?

Ummmmmmmmm????? Beats me. I have been trying to get rid of the P-26's but nobody wants them. I have P-43's in Seattle and Anchorage and even sent one squadron to the South Pacific for rear area use.

Here is what happens when I try to "upgrade" a restricted P-39 squdron to P-26's

From the screen you show, you can't "upgrade" anything since you don't have 25 aircraft of any one type in the pool (unless i am misreading something)

[rtrapasso]

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

By ra way, the prospective atty. was for a corporate by-laws rewrite, not the HOA.

I have met the HOA atty. I we are paying that guy $540 an hr I will pass a brick.

OK - for corporate law $540/hour is not unheard of (but still seems, well, very steep, unless you are sending him to Afghanistan or something [:'(])...

[Cap Mandrake]

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy




Eh? Aren't you playing with PDU on? Can't you 'upgrade' those restricted squadrons to your crappola P-26s and P-43s?

Ummmmmmmmm????? Beats me. I have been trying to get rid of the P-26's but nobody wants them. I have P-43's in Seattle and Anchorage and even sent one squadron to the South Pacific for rear area use.

Here is what happens when I try to "upgrade" a restricted P-39 squdron to P-26's

From the screen you show, you can't "upgrade" anything since you don't have 25 aircraft of any one type in the pool (unless i am misreading something)

Yes, I believe that might explain why I cant convert to P-40E's in this example, but note that the P-26's are greyed out.

[Cap Mandrake]

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

By ra way, the prospective atty. was for a corporate by-laws rewrite, not the HOA.

I have met the HOA atty. I we are paying that guy $540 an hr I will pass a brick.

OK - for corporate law $540/hour is not unheard of (but still seems, well, very steep, unless you are sending him to Afghanistan or something [:'(])...

Well, maybe he is going to take one of the Waco gliders and let the Paralegals hit the silk. Those gliders always seemed more dangerous to me.