New to the game - Basic Questions

[Courtenay]

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

No it must be a Land Offensive so yes you have to get forces in position beforehand.

Or have forces of one nation invade off the transports of another nation. For example, CW declares a naval, US an O-chit land. The CW AMPHs move out to sea, pick up US units, and the US forces are doubled. The naval gunfire support will be CW, which will cause a -1 penalty if one is the Allied Combat Friction optional rule, but that one can live with that.

[rkr1958]

@paulderynck & @Courtenay -- O.K., I think I get it now. Thanks!

[rkr1958]

This is not a question, but something that I just learned. I started learning (M)WiF back in February when I purchased MWiF. As most you probably know, I've been doing a global war scenario AAR, which I started in mid August, ~ 3 months ago. What I just learned is so basic, so important and so obvious, I'm sure, for those who learned WiF playing cardboard and paper. But it was far from obvious for me.

I just figured out that you can determine the type of ship built in the first cycle of naval construction. Up until, a few moments ago I though that was randomly selected. And it's been so frustrating to me as the allies as I've been wanting all the transports I could get but was getting other types of ships in this cycle. Now I find that all I had to do is to click on the type of ship I want and that's what I get. Of course, the specific ship within that class is still random but now I can start the building of badly needed transports.

[Grotius]

Yep. The UI could probably do a better job of highlighting this for you. Perhaps a brighter highlight around the unit selected, or a text message above the field of ships indicating that "you've chosen Transport x, click OK to confirm," or something. Alas, there are other priorities for now.

[Courtenay]

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

This is not a question, but something that I just learned. I started learning (M)WiF back in February when I purchased MWiF. As most you probably know, I've been doing a global war scenario AAR, which I started in mid August, ~ 3 months ago. What I just learned is so basic, so important and so obvious, I'm sure, for those who learned WiF playing cardboard and paper. But it was far from obvious for me.

I just figured out that you can determine the type of ship built in the first cycle of naval construction. Up until, a few moments ago I though that was randomly selected. And it's been so frustrating to me as the allies as I've been wanting all the transports I could get but was getting other types of ships in this cycle. Now I find that all I had to do is to click on the type of ship I want and that's what I get. Of course, the specific ship within that class is still random but now I can start the building of badly needed transports.

I am confused by your description.

The first cycle you select a type of ship class (Carrier, Light Carrier, Battleship, Cruiser, Transport, AMPH) and get a random unit from the units in the force pool for that class. I am not at all clear how you could want to build one type and get another.

The second cycle, you select naval construction, click on a ship, and build that specific ship. No randomness whatsoever -- once you have a ship in the construction pool, you build individual ships. If the US has Wyoming, Iowa, Alaska, and a TRS in the construction pool, you can pick which of these four units you want. Note that the costs and time would be quite different for these four units.

(Subs are exactly the same, except that one clicks on sub construction, not naval construction. The reason for the two different pools is that SUBs are a different gearing class for than surface ships, so MWiF keeps them separate.)

[Joseignacio]

ORIGINAL: Courtenay

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

This is not a question, but something that I just learned. I started learning (M)WiF back in February when I purchased MWiF. As most you probably know, I've been doing a global war scenario AAR, which I started in mid August, ~ 3 months ago. What I just learned is so basic, so important and so obvious, I'm sure, for those who learned WiF playing cardboard and paper. But it was far from obvious for me.

I just figured out that you can determine the type of ship built in the first cycle of naval construction. Up until, a few moments ago I though that was randomly selected. And it's been so frustrating to me as the allies as I've been wanting all the transports I could get but was getting other types of ships in this cycle. Now I find that all I had to do is to click on the type of ship I want and that's what I get. Of course, the specific ship within that class is still random but now I can start the building of badly needed transports.

I am confused by your description.

The first cycle you select a type of ship class (Carrier, Light Carrier, Battleship, Cruiser, Transport, AMPH) and get a random unit from the units in the force pool for that class. I am not at all clear how you could want to build one type and get another.

The second cycle, you select naval construction, click on a ship, and build that specific ship. No randomness whatsoever -- once you have a ship in the construction pool, you build individual ships. If the US has Wyoming, Iowa, Alaska, and a TRS in the construction pool, you can pick which of these four units you want. Note that the costs and time would be quite different for these four units.

(Subs are exactly the same, except that one clicks on sub construction, not naval construction. The reason for the two different pools is that SUBs are a different gearing class for than surface ships, so MWiF keeps them separate.)

[rkr1958]

Well, obviously I'm confused and confusing too. But, here's my understanding, which could be completely wrong ...

It's a 2 step, or cycle, process to build a ship in MWiF:

1. Naval construction where you select ship type (e.g., large carrier, transport, battleship, cruiser).

2. Build a ship of that type (e.g., transport) and randomly get a ship of that type from the force pool. In step 2, if ships of that type are available it will show up as a separate category under "Units:" and "type".

Now my misunderstanding was in step 1. I didn't realize until yesterday evening that you could control the ship type in step 1 by clicking on that type (actually, a ship of that type) in the window to the bottom right where selecting "naval construction". I thought that was random too, that is, the selecting of the ship type in step 1 was random. Now I know that that can be specified.

[Joseignacio]

OK, I didn't read the MWIF manuals completely so I couldn't tell, but this should be there. I knew because of WIF.

There are also other subdivisions (at least in WIF) that restrict the unit you'll get.

For example, in CVP you can select freely not only to select a CVP and get it randomly but in fact you can select to get one among those of value "0", or the ones valued "1", and later on "2".

IIRW this applies too to SCSs and CVs, depending on the first number (the cost of the first cycle is the discriminatory).

[composer99]

The pertinent rule text, in §24.1.5 is:

Sort your units into force pools. Each major power needs a separate force pool for each unit type. So, you need one each for CAV, INF, MIL, GAR, MOT, MTN, MAR, PARA, MECH, ARM, HQ-A, HQ-I, SUB, CL, CA, BB, CV, TRS, AMPH, Convoy points, FTR, LND, NAV and ATR. You only have 1 force pool for each type regardless of how many countries contribute units to your force pools.

Some of these unit types come with different costs. For example, some LND will cost you 4, some will cost you 5 and some will cost 6 build points. Separate each unit type into a sub-force pool for each cost (first cycle cost only in the case of naval units).

It's odd that the production panel shows that CVs, BBs, CAs, and CLs have their own row in the panel that you can select, while TRS and AMPH don't. (Also, given the second paragraph above, and the rules I am about to cite from §13.6.5, submarines should be split into multiple rows based on their first cycle cost.)

You must select all other units you build from the force pool randomly. You can nominate the type of unit you want to build, and sometimes even the cost you want to pay (e.g. you can choose a 2 point SCS rather than a 3 because they are in separate force pools ~ see 13.6.9). But within those parameters, the choice is random.

All that is to say that I don't know why the production panel in the screenshot displayed isn't already comprehensively breaking out units by force pool (as defined by the game rules). But it ought to.

[Dabrion]

I was wondering the same. Could it be that all the TRS/AMPH are either on the board or in the construction pool already and the null options are not rendered as row in the selection area?

All submarines cost 1bp on their first cycle when playing with SiF.

[rkr1958]

ORIGINAL: composer99

The pertinent rule text, in §24.1.5 is:

Sort your units into force pools. Each major power needs a separate force pool for each unit type. So, you need one each for CAV, INF, MIL, GAR, MOT, MTN, MAR, PARA, MECH, ARM, HQ-A, HQ-I, SUB, CL, CA, BB, CV, TRS, AMPH, Convoy points, FTR, LND, NAV and ATR. You only have 1 force pool for each type regardless of how many countries contribute units to your force pools.

Some of these unit types come with different costs. For example, some LND will cost you 4, some will cost you 5 and some will cost 6 build points. Separate each unit type into a sub-force pool for each cost (first cycle cost only in the case of naval units).

It's odd that the production panel shows that CVs, BBs, CAs, and CLs have their own row in the panel that you can select, while TRS and AMPH don't. (Also, given the second paragraph above, and the rules I am about to cite from §13.6.5, submarines should be split into multiple rows based on their first cycle cost.)

You must select all other units you build from the force pool randomly. You can nominate the type of unit you want to build, and sometimes even the cost you want to pay (e.g. you can choose a 2 point SCS rather than a 3 because they are in separate force pools ~ see 13.6.9). But within those parameters, the choice is random.

All that is to say that I don't know why the production panel in the screenshot displayed isn't already comprehensively breaking out units by force pool (as defined by the game rules). But it ought to.

It doesn't show TRS, because I built them all and when that happens that category disappears. It doesn't show AMPH, because I'm not playing with that optional rule.

Now I'm really confused. In building ships, which is the first cycle and which is the second. Specifically, is naval construction the first or second cycle of the naval build? If it's the second, then I've really been confused and building all wrong?

[Dabrion]

The first cycle represents the hull. That is the uniform cost cycle, the rows separated by type where you have to pick at random. The second cycle represents the superstructure. That can be varying cost and you get to choose what you want to build. This is the Naval/Submarine construction row.

[rkr1958]

ORIGINAL: Dabrion

The first cycle represents the hull. That is the uniform cost cycle, the rows separated by type where you have to pick at random. The second cycle represents the superstructure. That can be varying cost and you get to choose what you want to build. This is the Naval/Submarine construction row.

Oh my goodness! I have been looking at this backwards. Thanks for clearing up my confusion.

[composer99]

Thanks for clearing that up about the TRS/AMPH, rkr1958.

[Courtenay]

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

Well, obviously I'm confused and confusing too. But, here's my understanding, which could be completely wrong ...

It's a 2 step, or cycle, process to build a ship in MWiF:

1. Naval construction where you select ship type (e.g., large carrier, transport, battleship, cruiser).

2. Build a ship of that type (e.g., transport) and randomly get a ship of that type from the force pool. In step 2, if ships of that type are available it will show up as a separate category under "Units:" and "type".

Now my misunderstanding was in step 1. I didn't realize until yesterday evening that you could control the ship type in step 1 by clicking on that type (actually, a ship of that type) in the window to the bottom right where selecting "naval construction". I thought that was random too, that is, the selecting of the ship type in step 1 was random. Now I know that that can be specified.

How to build a ship (not a convoy point) in MWiF:

1) On the production screen, click on the class of ship you want. You will get a picture of a number of ships. Click on the "Build Selected Unit Type" button on the bottom of the screen. This will pick a random unit of that class, to be partially constructed some number of turns later.

2) Wait several turns. Eventually you will get a message during the reinforcement step saying "XXXX" has been added to the construction pool, where "XXXX" is either the name of the ship, or for an AMPH or TRS MWiF's internal label for the ship.

3) In the ensuing production step, click on "Naval Construction". This will bring up a window with ships on it. There may be all types of ships in that window: CVs, CVLs, BBs, CAs, CLs, TRSs, and AMPHs. Click on the specific ship you want. Then click on the "Build" button. That will build the ship you clicked on. That precise ship, and no other. There is no randomness involved. I have no idea what ship gets built if you did not click on any; my guess would be the one in the upper left hand corner, but that is a guess.

4) Wait several more turns. Eventually, you will get your selected ship as a reinforcement.

Submarines are the same, except for "Sub Construction", rather than "Naval Construction"

[rkr1958]

ORIGINAL: Courtenay

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

Well, obviously I'm confused and confusing too. But, here's my understanding, which could be completely wrong ...

It's a 2 step, or cycle, process to build a ship in MWiF:

1. Naval construction where you select ship type (e.g., large carrier, transport, battleship, cruiser).

2. Build a ship of that type (e.g., transport) and randomly get a ship of that type from the force pool. In step 2, if ships of that type are available it will show up as a separate category under "Units:" and "type".

Now my misunderstanding was in step 1. I didn't realize until yesterday evening that you could control the ship type in step 1 by clicking on that type (actually, a ship of that type) in the window to the bottom right where selecting "naval construction". I thought that was random too, that is, the selecting of the ship type in step 1 was random. Now I know that that can be specified.

How to build a ship (not a convoy point) in MWiF:

1) On the production screen, click on the class of ship you want. You will get a picture of a number of ships. Click on the "Build Selected Unit Type" button on the bottom of the screen. This will pick a random unit of that class, to be partially constructed some number of turns later.

2) Wait several turns. Eventually you will get a message during the reinforcement step saying "XXXX" has been added to the construction pool, where "XXXX" is either the name of the ship, or for an AMPH or TRS MWiF's internal label for the ship.

3) In the ensuing production step, click on "Naval Construction". This will bring up a window with ships on it. There may be all types of ships in that window: CVs, CVLs, BBs, CAs, CLs, TRSs, and AMPHs. Click on the specific ship you want. Then click on the "Build" button. That will build the ship you clicked on. That precise ship, and no other. There is no randomness involved. I have no idea what ship gets built if you did not click on any; my guess would be the one in the upper left hand corner, but that is a guess.

4) Wait several more turns. Eventually, you will get your selected ship as a reinforcement.

Submarines are the same, except for "Sub Construction", rather than "Naval Construction"

Thanks! A blind squirrel would have been doing a better job building the ships I needed (wanted) than I've been doing so far this game. I sure won't mess that up again!

[rkr1958]

Why is the city of Mukden in Manchuria still controlled by the Japanese and not the communist Chinese? This screen shot was taken a turn after the occupation of Mukden by the communist Chinese.

[composer99]

I don't see how that can be anything other than a bug.

[rkr1958]

ORIGINAL: composer99

I don't see how that can be anything other than a bug.

O.K. then, I'll post a (potential) bug report. I thought I'd ask the question before posting it in the tech forum.

[rkr1958]

A Learning Moment (for me): Don't make assumptions about MWiF based on other strategic ww2 games (e.g., CEaW-GS).

I had just assumed that Italian subs couldn't exit the Med unless the axis controlled Gibraltar and / or the Suez Canal. So, I had never though of trying to move Italian subs from Italy to St. Vincent Sea area, until now. In fact, it was reading through volume 1 of the player's manual that tipped me off to this. The bit about having German u-boats and Italian subs in the same sea area and using the Italians to initiative combat (i.e., by takings a naval or combined) and having the Germans take a land in order to do what they do best.