Psych Ops: BTS "Lite" NY59Giants (A) vs John 3rd (J)

[BBfanboy]

Do you have any idea on the time for a ship to go from Port Stanley to Cape Town? It could be considerably less than the trip from ECUSA to CT since Pt. Stanley is already on a similar southern parallel. This would open the possibility to switch some TFs to CT-Oz or CT-India, and use a lot less fuel getting there. [:)]

[ny59giants]

No fuel is used between off map bases. Thus, an Allied player can set his TFs to Full Speed, not get any system damage, and use any fuel. However, you cannot do this with ships that have major damage as your flooding will increase. [:-]

[Canoerebel]

This creates an interesting dilemma for players. Some will use the feature (full speed thus increasing transit time considerably) without even thinking twice about it. Others will look deeper and wonder if it's gamey - an unintentional quirk in the game mechanics.

I dealt with this some time previously when Hornet arrived in the game. I need her in the IO post haste. I knew that I could use the feature to get her to Capetown in about half the time. I debated and debated and finally elected not to make use of the feature.

I'm not weighing in on whether it's right or wrong. I don't know. But it's a good illustration how sometimes we AE players face issues that require thought.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

This creates an interesting dilemma for players. Some will use the feature (full speed thus increasing transit time considerably) without even thinking twice about it. Others will look deeper and wonder if it's gamey - an unintentional quirk in the game mechanics.

I dealt with this some time previously when Hornet arrived in the game. I need her in the IO post haste. I knew that I could use the feature to get her to Capetown in about half the time. I debated and debated and finally elected not to make use of the feature.

I'm not weighing in on whether it's right or wrong. I don't know. But it's a good illustration how sometimes we AE players face issues that require thought.

I have thought about the feature too, and then looked at transit times and it seemed to me that the full speed setting was closer to RL than the normal speed setting. Two months to get from ECUSA to Capetown is just too long.

[Canoerebel]

I thought it was three weeks from East Coast to Capetown, but I haven't looked in at least 2.25 years. I could be way off.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I thought it was three weeks from East Coast to Capetown, but I haven't looked in at least 2.25 years. I could be way off.

Me too! [:D]
I don't have time away from the game as an excuse, but age does fog the memory cells .... [8|]

[zuluhour]

I believe its around 32-38 days

off map connection table: 6.2.10.3

Port Stanley to:
east coast 162
cape town 95
panama 166


appears much shorter than I thought.....

East coast to Cape town: 170 (6800nm)

[Canoerebel]

Well, I've hijacked the thread (sorry, Michael!), but I think good warships make it in three weeks. It's longer for ground units (and possibly air units).

I think a combat ship like Hornet makes it in about 21 days at regular speed and much less - 10 to 14??? - at flank speed.

But, like I said, my knowledge has been on the shelf for two years, so no surprise if I'm wrong.

[BBfanboy]

To be sure, my transit time estimates were based on the usual 12-14 kt. convoys of cargo or troops.
Although 15 knots may be the most economical fuel speed for a fast warship, most of them can cruise comfortably at 20 knots without much strain on engineering.

[ny59giants]

If you move any troops or air groups from Eastern USA to Port Stanley or Cape Town, they get there in between 30 and 40 days. Figure that represents being on a 12 knot transport. So, warships doing twice that speed should have considerable less time. I wonder how many ships actually went around Cape Horn during the war?? During winter it is a nasty place to be, I've heard.

It would be nice if there was random ship damage or torpedo hits to represent the German U-boats in the Atlantic.

[BBfanboy]

The South Atlantic was not nearly as good a hunting ground for U-boats as the main shipping lanes from USA and Canada to Britain, so once escorts and air cover were provided in the South Atlantic, Eastern Seaboard and Caribbean, Doenitz withdrew practically all his U-boats from there. By late 1942 the route down the EC USA to Recife or Rio, then across to Cape Town would have been pretty safe.
And the Cape of Good Hope does not have the fierce reputation of Cape Horn, so ship damage would be much less likely.

But you may have a point - the transit times ascribed by developers may be meant to include refuelling stops and minor repair time.

[ny59giants]

I saw a special years ago on the currents and weather through Cape Horn and Antarctica. I remember how they stated so much water was flowing through this relatively narrow area that ships took extra precautions when transiting.

[ny59giants]

Date: 42 Nov 24 & 25
Damn fighters on Escorts!?! [:@] [:(]

Key:
TT = Torpedo;
bb = ground bombardment; c = casualties; b = base hits; s = supply hits; r = runway hits; p = port hits; f = fuel hits;
AV = Assault Value;
ID = Infantry Division; AD = Assault Division (really 3x SNLF formed into a Brigade);
DC = Depth Charged;
(*) = destroyed aircraft;
If odds are bold, they are the Allies;
BG = Bomber Group of 48 planes (4 x 12 bomber squadrons);
FG fighter group = 25 fighter planes if American;

Invasions: Niau (East of Tahiti) & captured via Fast Transport TF

CVs:
Japan -
KB1: 206, 181 (24 EEN of Hao) 182F 157B 7Aux
KB2: MIA for 4 days

Allies:
Death Star (DS) - CVs Saratoga, Hornet, Wasp; CVLs Jacksonville, King's Mtn; CVEs x5 headed for Port Stanley
CV Enterprise - back at Mangareva [21-33(33)-10(4)] - 19 knots & 33 more days pierside
CV Yorktown & Lexington - at Port Stanley

Subs:

Surface Action:

India/Burma: -
Chittagong -
Cox's Bazar - daily ground bb;
Hex between Cox's Bazar & Akyab - daily ground bb;
Akyab -
24th: 75 P-38s sweep and then 51 P-40Ks
25th: 75 P-38s sweep and then 51 P-40Ks; 1 SE of base John has hidden his TF with LRCAP of 24 Tojo and 26 Zero; I had increased range from 4 to 5 just in case he came up a hex short; 36 SBD and 18 Avengers come in WITHOUT their fighter escort [X(]; I get single bomb hit on xAK; then 16 Vengence come in get single bomb hit on another xAK; I loss 54 planes
Kalemyo -
Magwe -

China: [>:] [>:]

SouthEast Pacific:
Tahiti -
Makemo (4 hexes NW of Hao)
25th: 16 P-39s sweep in to find 36 Tojos on CAP. I lose 4 to his 2. Another 16 sweep in and I lose 2 to his 1. 20 Tojos are still left when 21 B-25s & 30 B-26s come in. I lose 1, but AF damage is high 22b, 9s, 78r. Another 15 P-39s follow and I shoot down 3 for no losses.
Hao -
Tubuai - B-17s from Aukland flew in and set to night time port attack at Tahiti with 86% moonlight.

North Pacific: - Awaiting two groups worth of P-38Gs to repair planes after upgrades
Kodiak -
Chirokof Island -
Cold Bay -

Australia: [>:]

Engineers: Chittagong F7; Tubuai F3; Nuka Hiva AF5 & F2; Chirikof F2; Mangareva F6

Notes:
Suva - Coast watchers report between 20 and 30 ships here.

I've played WITP/AE to know not to get too upset when fighters fail to escort bombers. Thankfully, I had just sent two more 28 plane groups of DBs from Port Stanley to Cape Town. It will be some time before i can hit his shipping from the air.

[JocMeister]

Ouch, bad luck on the fighters not appearing. [:(]

[ny59giants]

Foreshadowing and free intel from John in latest email.

OUCH! I had my normal 200 fighters flying over Rangoon and set-up an ambush of 200 more at the WRONG location. Ooops. Nicely done.

Don't have any recon planes that can reach Rangoon yet. Then, he gives me a little insight on how he is using his fighters in Burma.

[JocMeister]

He really does talk too much in his emails... [:)]

[ny59giants]

A must read for those players who use Beta in their game like I do. I will now have better control of my CVs.

tm.asp?m=3982254&mpage=1&key=&#4000294

[ny59giants]

Date: 42 Nov 26 & 27
Beginning of period of boredom as fleet will be off map and then upgrading. Now, focus will be on Cox's Bazar and Akyab area.

Key:
TT = Torpedo;
bb = ground bombardment; c = casualties; b = base hits; s = supply hits; r = runway hits; p = port hits; f = fuel hits;
AV = Assault Value;
ID = Infantry Division; AD = Assault Division (really 3x SNLF formed into a Brigade);
DC = Depth Charged;
(*) = destroyed aircraft;
If odds are bold, they are the Allies;
BG = Bomber Group of 48 planes (4 x 12 bomber squadrons);
FG fighter group = 25 fighter planes if American;

Invasions: Aratika (NE of Tahiti) & captured via Fast Transport TF

CVs:
Japan -
KB1: 192, 173 (4 So of Hiva Oa) 200F 163B 15Aux
KB2: 208, 164 (18 EEN of Hiva Oa) 122F 87B 14Aux (thankfully, I have my PBY-5s here and set to max range of 20 hexes)

Allies:
Death Star (DS) - CVs Saratoga, Hornet, Wasp; CVLs Jacksonville, King's Mtn; CVEs x5 headed for Port Stanley
CV Enterprise - back at Mangareva [20-33(33)-10(4)] - 19 knots & 31 more days pierside
CV Yorktown & Lexington - at Port Stanley

Subs:
O21 sinks xAK NE of Georgetown
KXVI sinks SS-5 (LST) SW of Ramree

Surface Action:

India/Burma: -
Chittagong -
Cox's Bazar - daily ground bb;
Hex between Cox's Bazar & Akyab - daily ground bb;
Akyab -
Kalemyo -
Magwe -
26th: I've seen for a few days over 100 bombers without any fighters at base. So, P-38s and P-40s sweep base and then over 300 bombers hit AF destroying over 60 bombers. John had set up a LRCAP trap at wrong base.

China: [>:] [>:]

SouthEast Pacific:
Tahiti -
27th: Only 28 B-17s hit the port at night and hit nothing. [:(]
Makemo (4 hexes NW of Hao)
Hao -
Tubuai -

North Pacific: - Awaiting two groups worth of P-38Gs to repair planes after upgrades
Kodiak -
Chirokof Island -
Cold Bay -

Australia: [>:]

Engineers: Christchurch AF6; Hao AF5; Ceduna P3; Clare F3;

Intel: 2 ID prepping for Cooktown; Karafuto Mixed Bde at Cold Bay

Notes:
Nice to see ALL of John's carriers leaving SE Pac, but I'm thinking he may have left something patrolling the entry from Port Stanley.

[ny59giants]

Date: 42 Nov 28 & 29
My favorite Dutch sub is now KX
KB1 & 2 leaving SE Pac

Key:
TT = Torpedo;
bb = ground bombardment; c = casualties; b = base hits; s = supply hits; r = runway hits; p = port hits; f = fuel hits;
AV = Assault Value;
ID = Infantry Division; AD = Assault Division (really 3x SNLF formed into a Brigade);
DC = Depth Charged;
(*) = destroyed aircraft;
If odds are bold, they are the Allies;
BG = Bomber Group of 48 planes (4 x 12 bomber squadrons);
FG fighter group = 25 fighter planes if American;

Invasions: Another dot base NE of Tahiti falls to Fast Transport TF - Takapoto

CVs:
Japan -
KB1: 178, 168 (10 NE of Tahiti) 205F 161B 15Aux
KB2: 200, 149 (18 NE of Nuku Hiva) 160F, 148B, 29Aux

Allies:
Death Star (DS) - CVs Saratoga, Hornet, Wasp, Yorktown, & Lexington; CVLs Jacksonville & King's Mtn; CVEs x5 headed for Panama
CV Enterprise - back at Mangareva [19-33(33)-9(4)] - 20 knots & 29 more days pierside

Subs:
John has kept a few small TFs at Akyab after my DBs & TBs got mauled a few days ago and are off recovering morale.
KX puts a single TT into two xAKs at Akyab on 28th. I've ordered more to go here on one of their patrol zones legs.

Surface Action:

India/Burma: -
Chittagong -
Cox's Bazar - daily ground bb;
29th - I start to attack his ground troops here, but my fighters FAIL to fly again. 50 LBs face 18 Tojo & 15 Zeros on LRCAP. I lose 5. 252 LBs follow and then 102 HBs hit AF.
Hex between Cox's Bazar & Akyab - daily ground bb;
Akyab -
Kalemyo -
Magwe -

China: [>:] [>:]

SouthEast Pacific:
Tahiti -
Makemo (4 hexes NW of Hao)
Hao -
Tubuai -

North Pacific: -
Kodiak -
Chirokof Island -
Cold Bay -

Australia: [>:]

Engineers: Sitka P5; Aukland F4; Imphal F4; Ceduna AF2; Nuka Hiva F3;

Intel: 33rd ID at Tennant Creek

Notes:
SE Pac - With John leaving the waters, I'll start sending in small Cargo TF with supplies and if they can get to and fro without running across anything, then some troop movement will happen in the next few months.

[ny59giants]

Date: 42 Nov 30 & Dec 1
KB1 & 2 now MIA from SE Pac [:)]

Key:
TT = Torpedo;
bb = ground bombardment; c = casualties; b = base hits; s = supply hits; r = runway hits; p = port hits; f = fuel hits;
AV = Assault Value;
ID = Infantry Division; AD = Assault Division (really 3x SNLF formed into a Brigade);
DC = Depth Charged;
(*) = destroyed aircraft;
If odds are bold, they are the Allies;
BG = Bomber Group of 48 planes (4 x 12 bomber squadrons);
FG fighter group = 25 fighter planes if American;

Invasions:

CVs:
Japan -
KB1: MIA with 205F, 161B, 15Aux
KB2: MIA with 160F, 148B, 29Aux

Allies:
Death Star (DS) - CVs Saratoga, Hornet, Wasp, Yorktown, & Lexington; CVLs Jacksonville & King's Mtn; CVEs x5 headed for Panama
CV Enterprise - at Mangareva [18-33(33)-9(4)] - 20 knots & 27 more days pierside

Subs:
Pollack hit once by ASW TF at Tahiti. She'll head to Rapa for refuel and then to Aukland for repairs and 12/42 upgrade.

Surface Action:

India/Burma: -
Chittagong -
Cox's Bazar - daily ground bb;
30th - 50 P-38s sweep the now empty skies. 172 LBs hit the troops and inflict few casualties. Then, 102 HBs hit AF.
Hex between Cox's Bazar & Akyab - daily ground bb;
1st - same as 30th, except the HBs are stood down. In my experience, you cannot use them for more than two days in row without having them have to be stood down for 10 to 14 days to get all of them repaired.
Akyab - 25 P-38s sweep
Kalemyo -
Magwe -

China: [>:] [>:]

SouthEast Pacific:
Tahiti -
Makemo (4 hexes NW of Hao) - 50 P-39s are sweeping while another 25 escort in 55 LBs (B-25 & B-26)
Hao -
Tubuai -

North Pacific: -
Kodiak -
Chirokof Island -
Cold Bay -

Australia: [>:]

Engineers: Gisborne AF5; Wellington P7; Socotra AF4;

Intel: 5 Air HQ at Broome; 6th ID at Umnak

Notes:
CV Enterprise - I feel somewhat relived that John didn't come to Mangareva to try to sink her. She will stay here until no more pierside work can be done. Then, over to Cape Town for full repairs and upgrades.