The Sky’s the Limit- PBEM GC 41 jubjub (Axis) vs. M60A3TTS (Soviet)

[M60A3TTS]

Ground and air losses. Rumanian ground unit losses added significantly to overall Axis losses. In the air, our fighters remain no match for the opposition.

[tm1]

History seems to be repeating itself possibly

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[M60A3TTS]

Random things.

In our war against tanks, two weeks out of the last ten were particularly brutal.



The losses seem to be made good in a very short time for both sides. German industry is now turning out a goodly number of tanks, assault guns, and self propelled anti-tank guns.



Soviet air losses are high as well with much fewer casualties with the Luftwaffe due to the experience disparity.





Loss ratios

[M60A3TTS]

Week 102 30 May 1943

Marshal Zhukov's Central Front attacked this week with assistance from Voronezh and Southwestern Fronts between the Vorskla and Psel Rivers. Caught up in the fighting included four divisions of the German II Corps of Lothar Rendulic. Berlin had no doubt as to the willingness of Rendulic to hold his ground when ordered and this likewise was counted on by the Stavka. By week's end the following Ostheer divisions found themselves cut off:

XLVI Panzer Corps Krebs
---14th Infantry Division
---345th Motorized Division

LV Corps Meindl
--24th Infantry Division
--383rd Infantry Division

II Corps Rendulic
---95th Infantry Division
---215th Infantry Division
---321st Infantry Division
---370th Infantry Division

XLI Panzer Corps Vietinghoff
---78th Sturm Division




Central and Voronezh HQs reported the following:

Enemy tank units engaged include 7th, 8th, 12th, 19th and 20th Panzer Divisions. AFVs that remained in these units were estimated as 8th Panzer and 10th Motorized combined 142, 19th with 136, 7th and 12th each with 56, 20th with 54.

Southwestern Front found the city of Poltava to be unoccupied and was thus taken on the march.

Debut of the Panther

20th Panzer Division started the week with 24 new Panther Tanks. The Panthers lost 21 of their own while destroying 9 Soviet tanks. Of the 21 lost, 12 were due to combat. A further 9 were lost during the retreat. The commander of the 1st Company of the Panther Battalion reported an incident that did not reflect a favorable opinion of the new tank:

One of the tank drivers while attempting to navigate a significant incline called to his commander over the intercom system that a loud grinding noise was coming from the left hand side of the vehicle and he was quickly losing control of the steering mechanism. The commander, Sergeant Haff, ordered an immediate halt and both he and driver emerged from the vehicle to investigate the cause. It was found that inexplicably, several outer teeth of the Panther’s front left sprocket had torn away. The vehicle was in no condition to travel further and the commander requested the assistance of another Panther within his platoon to assist with their evacuation. Towing cables were rigged and the two Panthers resumed their movement to the rear. After approximately 1 ½ kilometers of travel, the towing Panther began to emit thick black smoke from the engine compartment. It became quickly evident that a fire had broken out in the engine compartment as the towing vehicle came to an abrupt halt. The two crews were quick to respond and were successful in limiting the fire to the engine compartment, but this vehicle too was now immobilized. The platoon leader, Lieutenant Heilwig, was unwilling to risk any further loss of his tanks by further towing and ordered demolition charges set off in the turrets of the two disabled vehicles to prevent their capture intact with the enemy in close proximity. The withdrawal then resumed.

It was not an auspicious start for Germany’s newest medium tank.

[Sammy5IsAlive]

Bang!!! I can't see him being able to get through to the cut off units?

Is that Panther anecdote a historical one?

[Q-Ball]

That is quite an encirclement for May 1943....really strong work. It looks hopeless for those 9 units; that's a half-Stalingrad right there

[M60A3TTS]

Bang!!! I can't see him being able to get through to the cut off units?

Is that Panther anecdote a historical one?

My Panther anecdote is fictitious, but provides an accurate description of specific issues that plagued the initial "D" Version.

[Q-Ball]

Great AAR as always! Question: Can you post a screenshot showing one of your Ground Attack Air Directives? Curious on how you are setting Altitude, Days, Strikes, and A/C numbers. Thanks!

[M60A3TTS]

Great AAR as always! Question: Can you post a screenshot showing one of your Ground Attack Air Directives? Curious on how you are setting Altitude, Days, Strikes, and A/C numbers. Thanks!

Glad you are enjoying the AAR.

Here's your screenie:

[Wiedrock]

It feels weird to see this PzDiv end with 5:1 Odds, Retreat 1 Hex (in words: one) and then start the next combat with a quarter of the CV it had before.

It was not an auspicious start for Germany’s newest medium tank.

Did you have any Mot unit in the initial attack?


Is he attacking anywhere in other areas of the frontline? Or making single attacks.

[M60A3TTS]

It feels weird to see this PzDiv end with 5:1 Odds, Retreat 1 Hex (in words: one) and then start the next combat with a quarter of the CV it had before.

It was not an auspicious start for Germany’s newest medium tank.

Did you have any Mot unit in the initial attack?


Is he attacking anywhere in other areas of the frontline? Or making single attacks.

The 29th Tank Brigade was attached to the 2nd Guards Rifle Corps in the initial attack.

At the beginning of this week there were attacks on two rifle divisions of the Volkhov Front near Velikye Luki. Often Axis attacks take place where tank or cavalry corps are exposed to counterattacks by German SS and panzer divisions. They are almost always highly successful, wiping out 90%+ of the defending Soviet armor.

[M60A3TTS]

Week 103 6 June 1943

The Ostheer begins the retreat to the Dnepr and the imagined safety of the Panther-Wotan Stellung.

Stalino is liberated by the 11th and 63rd Cavalry Divisions of General-Leytenant Aleksei Kurkin's 54th Army. The 54th has been assigned by the Stavka to the North Caucasus Front of General-Polkovnik Vasilevsky.

Further offensive action is underway with Konev's Voronezh Front, Zhukov's Central Front, Vatutin's Southwestern Front and Rokossovsky's Don Front.



Meanwhile, the Bogodukhov Pocket is eliminated. Nine German divisions are erased from the Order of Battle.





Back with Voronezh Front, the advance to the Desna is underway, although that advance is now threatened not by German divisions, but political decisions being contemplated by the Soviet Supreme Commander. Still, this impact is in the future.



Meanwhile, the VVS is fully engaged in ground attacks.



Air losses remain heavy, but it is a burden the VVS must continue to bear.

[gingerbread]

What caused the Axis flak losses? T1-T102 average 5/turn and then 127 in one turn?

[M60A3TTS]

I believe the flak losses are coming from organic AA within various rifle units on the ground. I actually have a paltry AA support unit count that is not tied down in city defense.

The losses are more elevated on the Axis side now because jubjub has become more aggressive with ground support, mixing in FW-190F and Ju-87 aircraft. Covered often by 100+ fighters, they are hard to get at with my own air forces, but that does amplify the LW losses.

[Wiedrock]

Maybe he changed smth in his Altitude settings, enabling your AAMGs to perform better or so?

You could check the Aircraft Flak Losses chart to see if there is a general increase recently or the turn just being an outlier.

But as you found out, LW can lose more in the East with the losses expected to happen in the West.

[M60A3TTS]

Week 104 13 June 1943

Konev’s Orders

HQ, Voronezh Front at Belgorod
13 June 09:40

Ivan Konev hovered over the map with the operations group.

You can see here, the Germans are putting anything they can in front of us to slow the advance. Those nine destroyed divisions from last week means that any defensive positions thrown up by the fascists along our line of advance will not be extensive. We should be able to now press on by taking Vorozhba and then swing southwest to Bakhmach. Then, on to Nezhin and with support from Bryansk Front, we’ll beat Zhukov to Kiev.

Ivan Stepanovich Konev had reason to be confident. Voronezh Front was prepared to surge to the west in conjunction with Zhukov’s Central Front to the south and drive back all opposition.

Then it came... A message was put into the hands of the front operations chief.

Comrade General, we have just received this message from Stavka. I don’t understand it. We are ordered to send Grechko’s 1st Guards Army along with both shock armies north in order to liberate Orel by mid-July as part of a joint operation with Bryansk Front. We are being ordered to send over half our forces for this.


Konev knew the impact of such orders. He thought, that will mean our push to the west will stall and the Germans will be able to re-establish a new defense. What are they thinking of? This has to be Budyenny’s creation. How that man has remained in his position for so long is a mystery for the ages.

Send an immediate reply that the order is received. I request to speak to Marshal Budyenny over the HF set at the earliest opportunity in order to clarify these instructions.

Orders of such high importance meant little time could be wasted. Chief of the General Staff, Marshal of the USSR Semyon Budyenny was in communication with Colonel General Konev within a matter of hours.

Greetings, Ivan Stepanovich. What is it that requires clarification of your orders? Comrade Stalin is supremely confident up here that we now at last have the opportunity to liberate Orel.

Konev: I need you to express to Comrade Stalin in the strongest terms that now is not the time to be splitting my command. The opportunity for success is to the west, not the north. Given time, the Germans will have to retreat from Orel anyways the farther west we drive. It will not cost us a single soldier to take that city.

Budyenny: I see. So you are unhappy with the orders you have been given to aid in the liberation of a great city that has suffered under German occupation for so long. You would prefer not to see yourself inconvenienced in your so-called drive to the west. As if it is only your command that is achieving success. That is what you wish me to convey to Comrade Stalin.

Konev: Comrade Marshal, you can be assured that I will faithfully carry out any order that I am given. My happiness is not relevant. I am also fully aware that all front commands are contributing to our effort. But I would not be performing my duty as front commander if I did not express my deep concern over the plan to divide my command in half and in effect attempt to go in two different directions. That sort of thing seldom achieves success.

Budyenny: The Boss will be glad to hear you remain faithful when it comes to executing your orders. I can’t speak to the rest of it, but I will pass this on to him without delay.

Within an hour, Stalin was on the line…

Stalin: Colonel-General, I have been told by Comrade Budyenny that you are somewhat agitated by the orders sent to you. This seems rather difficult to understand, you have had success in the past with every task set before you. Now you are given a new one, one of great political significance, but you hesitate. Please explain yourself.

Konev: Comrade Stalin, I can assure you that I was in no way agitated when speaking to Marshal Budyenny. I sincerely regret if that was what he understood to be my reaction to these orders…

Stalin: Yes, yes, Comrade Konev. Please get to your point. Why do you have concerns?

Konev: Comrade Stalin, we have an enemy now to our front that has suffered a significant loss of troops and subsequently cohesion of their defense. We have a rare opportunity to break through in the west which will be lost if I am ordered to move half of my forces to the north. The Germans will not sit idle. They will re-establish a new defense line quickly if we do not keep them on their back feet.

Stalin: I trust you are not blind to the sufferings of our people in Orel. Every day the Germans remain entrenched there is another day the world sees our inaction. You can be certain the western powers aren’t blind to this. Now you are asked to aid Comrade Meretskov and Bryansk Front in ending the misery of Orel’s occupation. You and Zhukov worked together to liberate Kharkov. Now you and Meretskov shall liberate Orel.

Konev: Comrade Stalin, I do not suggest in any way that Comrade Meretskov and his troops are not up to the task, but the soldiers of Marshal Zhukov’s Central Front are primarily elite guards units and Bryansk Front has none to my knowledge. I am not certain that we have the same formula for success here.

Stalin: Colonel General, it is for the Stavka to determine what is required to achieve success in the various areas of operation. Here in Moscow, we have a greater appreciation for the political importance of specific military objectives than do many at the front. That is our responsibility. It is for you to carry out orders and in this operation I have absolute confidence in both you are Meretskov to get the job done.

Konev: Comrade Stalin, I appreciate your words of confidence. But I must say again, the division of my command will significantly impact the chance of success in any direction.

Stalin: You are arguing to no purpose, Comrade Konev. You have your orders. We expect your soldiers in that city no later than the 17th of July. Make sure you meet that date.


Soviet forces in the south advance towards the Dnepr.

[M60A3TTS]

Week 105 20 June 1943


VVS operations reached a fever pitch this week as a maximum effort was called upon by the fighter and tactical air arms.


Ground attacks resulted in over 5,000 Axis casualties. Our air losses were not insignificant. Over 600 aircraft were lost during this segment of operations.

Ground operations with combined attacks of Bryansk and Voronezh Fronts began this week. Battering through the stiff German defenses created major casualties for the assaulting forces.



That portion of the Voronezh Front not involved in the Orel operations were forced to go over to the defensive, much to the dismay of Colonel-General Konev.


In the south, the Axis are in a state of slow retreat. Gains of 20 to 30 miles are made in many places.


After the week was over, VVS staff officers pored over the loss data and came to a rapid realization that the days of a "maximum effort" was fast coming to an end. The fighter losses if extended over another 2-3 weeks would empty the remaining reserves of first line fighter aircraft, and would then force a decision as to whether to return aircraft such as Yak-1 and LaGG-3 to service. Such a decision would offer no real long term solution as those reserves would themselves not last more than another 3-4 weeks.



Clearly pilots that filled the ranks of the VVS fighter arm even by mid-1943 were severely inferior to those of the Luftwaffe. Pilot quality even among guards fighter regiments were only slightly better compared to their regular 1942 counterparts. An assessment of the air-to-air results revealed the Luftwaffe fighter units were still largely considered to be in the elite category. The combined air operations by the Western Allies were having no appreciable effect to the quantity or quality of German fighter operations. At least 600 German fighters were believed to be operating actively on the Eastern Front.

[Wiedrock]

Did any of you Fighters in those attacks ever reach any enemy bombers?

[M60A3TTS]

Did any of you Fighters in those attacks ever reach any enemy bombers?

Not a single one. 581 Soviet fighter aircraft took place in support of 8 battles. The 66 LW aircraft that were lost were all due to flak or ops. Mostly flak.

[Wiedrock]

Did any of you Fighters in those attacks ever reach any enemy bombers?

Not a single one. 581 Soviet fighter aircraft took place in support of 8 battles. The 66 LW aircraft that were lost were all due to flak or ops. Mostly flak.

Weird that there's rly not even a RNG getting a chance (as it seems).

I guess you may just "REST" your Fighters on attacks without own GS active/in range instead, or?