All things Football (soccer) related

[shunwick]

Spurs 0 Liverpool 1 The Mighty Mo from the penalty spot 30 seconds in...

18 minutes in and a streaker livens up the game.

Half time 0-1.

Spurs settled quicker but without any quality in the final third. Liverpool look well out of sorts. Sissoko's right arm still separates the teams.

0-2 Origi.

And it's all over... thankfully. A rubbish game from two teams I expected to do better.

That's 90 minutes of my life I am not getting back. It was like going to a five star restaurant, ordering the house special, and then getting served a badly cooked beans on toast.

Best wishes
Steve

[terje439]

Boring game, but we won it. At the end of the day that is what matters

[TulliusDetritus]

Not too bad, herr Klopp and Co.

[Crossroads]

ORIGINAL: terje439

Boring game, but we won it. At the end of the day that is what matters

Not really, a master class, rather.

Last year, an experienced and yes, cynical, Real Madrid schooled the Reds. There was really no competition. 3-1 for Madrid.

This year, the Reds came back with not only vengeance, but lessons learnt.

Sissoko, pointing the defence to get into position, arm extended, Mane sees that, just pops the ball to his arm. Penalty. 1-0 Mo Salah.

Then, just killing the game for 90 minutes, with a cult hero finish for Origi again. Three shots during UCL, three goals.

Well done Spurs for reaching the final. Now, take the pain, use it, come back stronger next year. That's what we did.

Utter dominance (well not quite, but saying it still). Six times!

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: Crossroads

ORIGINAL: terje439

Boring game, but we won it. At the end of the day that is what matters

Not really, a master class, rather.

Master class or not, in terms of football matches this one was imo quite boring [;)]

[Crossroads]

ORIGINAL: terje439

Master class or not, in terms of football matches this one was imo quite boring [;)]

Not a single boring second there, mate [:)]

[warspite1]

Well that probably went as expected. A poor final made worse by losing. Who cares what the final was like if you win? Congratulations to Liverpool FC - it would have been cruel to end such a season with nothing.

So the dream is over. It was probably more a fantasy than a dream. The belated thought that we might have a star on the badge next season got me briefly excited on the way to the live screening. Could we really become Champions of Europe in the next few hours? I've been supporting Spurs for almost 50 years so what on earth was I thinking - getting carried away like that? [;)] But seeing the top of the stadium, peaking out above the roofs immediately ahead - like some alien silver space ship - and while still quite a long way down Tottenham High Road, was unexpected and set the heart tingling and got me thinking about the possibilities. As a wise man once said, It's the hope that kills you..... [:)]

Spurs have been playing poorly since Christmas (to be honest we've been winning ugly all season) and this continued in this match. Liverpool have been so good throughout the campaign - it needed Spurs to be at their best to win and too many players were far from that. Liverpool were actually pretty poor themselves as an attacking force all night, but we couldn't get going and couldn't make them pay.

The penalty within 30 seconds actually wasn't the disaster it could have been - there is a saying in football that teams can score too early. Was it handball? Who cares (I've long since given up trying to make any sense of the handball in the box rule), it was given, Moussa gave the referee a decision to make by having his arm up in the penalty area and......

The Harry Kane debate is irritating as hell and Poch could simply never win that - unless Spurs won in which case he would be hailed a genius. But Spurs lost, so whatever he'd done would have been criticised - "what? You leave out your finest goalscorer?" / "What? You leave out the man that got you to the final?". Boring.

The fact was it was less about who played than about how we played. When Lucas came on we didn't use him properly. He's a speed merchant but once again there were no balls in behind the defence for him to run on to - that is what killed Ajax. But the Liverpool defence was not really tested, never really stretched. We created a few openings but the ball control was just not there and the chances came and went.

Son, Alli and Eriksen have been pretty poor in too many games this season - the latter two especially. Eriksen for Real Madrid? Good luck with that. Alli simply hasn't kicked on since he came on the scene with such fanfare a few seasons back. I'd be really surprised if Southgate picks him for England against Holland.

But, as said previously, Liverpool were huge favourites, they've been immense this season and though it hurts so much, it isn't a surprise that we fell at the final hurdle - after all the previous 5 first time CL finalists all lost.

Poch has done an incredible job with the resources available and with the circumstances he faced, particularly this season - they would have de-railed a lesser coach. But We just need that spark, a player that can take people on and make those around him play. Imagine Spurs with a Hazard in the team.....

The off season has never been more important for Tottenham Hotspur. Poch (and of course Levy) have transformed the club in 5-years and put us in a position to be a serious player for the first time since the 1960's. But the team he's built is ageing, some want to go, and a few Poch should want to go. Who he brings in (or is allowed to bring in) will determine whether Spurs kick on or fade away again. To my mind the greatest quality of Sir Alex Ferguson is that in the time he was at Man Utd, he had to re-build the team so many times. And he did so. This is now the test that faces Poch. He got rid of the dead wood and built this team when he first came to the club. How good is he at re-building the next?

The crowd at White Hart Lane (sorry won't use the Tottenham Hotpur stadium name) was pretty much capacity - a few empty seats around but had to be circa 55,000+ so that was good and the atmosphere inside the ground was no different to a normal match.

I was a little concerned that the minute silence for Reyes (a former Arsenal player) would not be observed by some sections of the crowd, but that fear was quickly dispelled as a spontaneous round of applause broke out. That was really nice to observe.

A brand spanking new, excellent, shiny stadium - but the long, long walk to the Seven Sisters Tube station remains the same and is still awful after a loss....

[shunwick]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Well that probably went as expected. A poor final made worse by losing. Who cares what the final was like if you win? Congratulations to Liverpool FC - it would have been cruel to end such a season with nothing.

So the dream is over. It was probably more a fantasy than a dream. The belated thought that we might have a star on the badge next season got me briefly excited on the way to the live screening. Could we really become Champions of Europe in the next few hours? I've been supporting Spurs for almost 50 years so what on earth was I thinking - getting carried away like that? [;)] But seeing the top of the stadium, peaking out above the roofs immediately ahead - like some alien silver space ship - and while still quite a long way down Tottenham High Road, was unexpected and set the heart tingling and got me thinking about the possibilities. As a wise man once said, It's the hope that kills you..... [:)]

Spurs have been playing poorly since Christmas (to be honest we've been winning ugly all season) and this continued in this match. Liverpool have been so good throughout the campaign - it needed Spurs to be at their best to win and too many players were far from that. Liverpool were actually pretty poor themselves as an attacking force all night, but we couldn't get going and couldn't make them pay.

The penalty within 30 seconds actually wasn't the disaster it could have been - there is a saying in football that teams can score too early. Was it handball? Who cares (I've long since given up trying to make any sense of the handball in the box rule), it was given, Moussa gave the referee a decision to make by having his arm up in the penalty area and......

The Harry Kane debate is irritating as hell and Poch could simply never win that - unless Spurs won in which case he would be hailed a genius. But Spurs lost, so whatever he'd done would have been criticised - "what? You leave out your finest goalscorer?" / "What? You leave out the man that got you to the final?". Boring.

The fact was it was less about who played than about how we played. When Lucas came on we didn't use him properly. He's a speed merchant but once again there were no balls in behind the defence for him to run on to - that is what killed Ajax. But the Liverpool defence was not really tested, never really stretched. We created a few openings but the ball control was just not there and the chances came and went.

Son, Alli and Eriksen have been pretty poor in too many games this season - the latter two especially. Eriksen for Real Madrid? Good luck with that. Alli simply hasn't kicked on since he came on the scene with such fanfare a few seasons back. I'd be really surprised if Southgate picks him for England against Holland.

But, as said previously, Liverpool were huge favourites, they've been immense this season and though it hurts so much, it isn't a surprise that we fell at the final hurdle - after all the previous 5 first time CL finalists all lost.

Poch has done an incredible job with the resources available and with the circumstances he faced, particularly this season - they would have de-railed a lesser coach. But We just need that spark, a player that can take people on and make those around him play. Imagine Spurs with a Hazard in the team.....

The off season has never been more important for Tottenham Hotspur. Poch (and of course Levy) have transformed the club in 5-years and put us in a position to be a serious player for the first time since the 1960's. But the team he's built is ageing, some want to go, and a few Poch should want to go. Who he brings in (or is allowed to bring in) will determine whether Spurs kick on or fade away again. To my mind the greatest quality of Sir Alex Ferguson is that in the time he was at Man Utd, he had to re-build the team so many times. And he did so. This is now the test that faces Poch. He got rid of the dead wood and built this team when he first came to the club. How good is he at re-building the next?

The crowd at White Hart Lane (sorry won't use the Tottenham Hotpur stadium name) was pretty much capacity - a few empty seats around but had to be circa 55,000+ so that was good and the atmosphere inside the ground was no different to a normal match.

I was a little concerned that the minute silence for Reyes (a former Arsenal player) would not be observed by some sections of the crowd, but that fear was quickly dispelled as a spontaneous round of applause broke out. That was really nice to observe.

A brand spanking new, excellent, shiny stadium - but the long, long walk to the Seven Sisters Tube station remains the same and is still awful after a loss....

That's a fair assessment.

Best wishes,
Steve

[wodin]

Absolutely terrible. Both sides. That goal ruined it aswell. Still Spurs players should be ashamed. Also for a manager that gets such praise how come it was only him that knew not to play Kane from start? Every Red I've spoke to before and since said Kane plays from start we (reds) will win. His subs to late and took of Winks only player who seemed to know how to play.

[TulliusDetritus]

ORIGINAL: wodin
said Kane plays from start we (reds) will win.

Talented players should always play. Recent injuries, loss of form though... Tough dilemma for any coach. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

ORIGINAL: wodin
said Kane plays from start we (reds) will win.

Talented players should always play. Recent injuries, loss of form though... Tough dilemma for any coach. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

The problem is we've been around this issue 3 times in the last 2 years and the same thing happens. Fully fit, Kane is superb, his ability to hit the ball etc but he also links play and causes endless hassle for the defenders. When he's not, the last bit goes and Spurs lose one important means of disrupting an opposing defense.

There is no easy answer, if he's been injured he has to have the chance to play his way back into the game. Its clear that Spurs are better with a fit Kane, its marginal whether he improves us when he is regaining full fitness. Now it didn't help on saturday that Dele went missing and Eriksen tried to compensate by running around a lot.

So it might have been a brilliant decision if Dele had turned up but I struggle to remember a really good performance from his since his injury in January. In that sense wonder if the mistake - if there was one - was not to play Moura in place of Dele?

[TulliusDetritus]

ORIGINAL: loki100

The problem is we've been around this issue 3 times in the last 2 years and the same thing happens [...] There is no easy answer

It's possibly the worst nightmare to any coach. The problem with these really world class players is that the coach (and every football fan) knows they can be MIA 85 minutes... but somehow they may appear once or twice and *bingo* it's enough to win you the match. The old Romario at his peak did exactly that.

And yet...

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: loki100

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

ORIGINAL: wodin
said Kane plays from start we (reds) will win.

Talented players should always play. Recent injuries, loss of form though... Tough dilemma for any coach. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

The problem is we've been around this issue 3 times in the last 2 years and the same thing happens. Fully fit, Kane is superb, his ability to hit the ball etc but he also links play and causes endless hassle for the defenders. When he's not, the last bit goes and Spurs lose one important means of disrupting an opposing defense.

There is no easy answer, if he's been injured he has to have the chance to play his way back into the game. Its clear that Spurs are better with a fit Kane, its marginal whether he improves us when he is regaining full fitness. Now it didn't help on saturday that Dele went missing and Eriksen tried to compensate by running around a lot.

So it might have been a brilliant decision if Dele had turned up but I struggle to remember a really good performance from his since his injury in January. In that sense wonder if the mistake - if there was one - was not to play Moura in place of Dele?

warspite1

It’s probably best to stay away from most forms of social media at the moment. The abuse, being directed against Poch is just staggering, the sheer hatred for Harry Kane is beyond belief.

As always it’s difficult to always know who is posting (in terms of motivation) but when its Tottenham fans it just makes me sick. For non-Tottenham fans, I don’t really give a stuff (apart from the personal abuse of Harry which is bang out of order) because they don’t go to games, they don’t see the reality and they are essentially talking mindless sloblocks. For supposed ‘Tottenham fans’ they don’t have any such excuse.

And when anyone – Spurs fan or not - writes things like ‘Liverpool were there for the taking’ then they are clearly an intelligence free zone.

So what are these ‘fans’ so incensed about? Well in no particular order:
1. Pochettino is [weak] [Stupid] (insert to taste) for picking Harry
2. Pochettino is a useless coach who doesn’t know what he’s doing
3. Pochettino is disrespectful to Moura who basically got Spurs to the final
4. Spurs will never win a trophy under Pochettino
5. Kane is selfish and it’s all about him, he knew he wasn’t fit but put himself before the team
6. It was obvious, play Kane and we lose
7. It was madness to change the Spurs team given the form we were in

It’s difficult to know where to start. But we’ll start with the absurdity – and yes I’ve read this – that Poch shouldn’t have broken up the team that was in such good form…..

So let’s look at Spurs form since Harry was injured against Manchester City:
Tottenham 4-0 Huddersfield – We beat a team already relegated and with one of the worst premiership records for a season ever, at home.
Manchester City 4-3 Tottenham – We lost, but scoring 3 away from home was a great achievement and got us the aggregate win
Manchester City 1-0 Tottenham – We lost.
Tottenham 1-0 Brighton – We scrapped a 1-0 win in the last minute against a Brighton team that finished one place above relegation
Tottenham 0-1 West Ham – We lost at home and couldn’t score against a team with an appalling away record
Tottenham 0-1 Ajax – We lost at home
Bournemouth 1-0 Tottenham – We lost against a team that was struggling for form and finished 14th in the premier league
Ajax 2-3 Tottenham – We scrapped a win in the first minute of extra, extra time added on but Ajax should have been out of sight after the first leg and the first half of the second leg when he continued with our abysmal football
Tottenham 2-2 Everton – Last game at home needing a win to finish third and…….

So these are just the bald facts (which are bad enough) but when you add in the ‘quality’ of the football, then ….. Shouldn’t change a team on such form? Right……

It was Poch who made the decision to play Harry. It was a gamble given his recent injury and, having made the decision, then decided against substituting him. An obvious decision? Well there are two reasons why it was far from obvious. A) look at the performances above to show how much we missed Harry, and B) it’s great being wise after the event. But look at Harry’s scoring record – it is phenomenal – against big teams too. Liverpool then scored after 2 minutes. We needed a goal. Who do you take off when you need a goal? One only has to recall the rightful opprobrium that was heaped on Graham Taylor in Sweden in the 1992 European Championships. England are losing, we need a goal – what to do? Yes, that’s right, he takes off Gary Lineker…. Of course…..

Possibly an even worse aspect is the idea that if Moura had been picked we would definitely have won…. again. of course….. I mean it was only Liverpool right? And what did he do when he came on? The team – no not just Harry – just never got going. It happens – and maybe Liverpool’s defence had something to do with that too.

Pochettino has never struck me as weak. He did not take long at all to get rid of the deadwood from the team. He didn’t do it immediately, he gave people a chance to shape up and buy in and, if they didn’t, they were out. I don’t think weakness was a factor. He wasn’t sentimental either – he and Ryan Mason had a good relationship, he was a Spurs boy but…..

A useless coach who doesn’t know what he’s doing. Well I have certainly been critical of Poch on limited occasions in the past – playing Son at wing back in the FA Cup semi-final was a bit of a shocker. But that – and the Kane gamble not coming off – does not make him a bad coach let alone useless. I say again, no new players, no pre-season, an ageing squad, a lack of replacements available (unlike Guardiola who has the resources at City to have two world class players in every position), the permanent loss of our best midfielder (for financial reasons), the temporary loss of just about every key player at least once this season (to injury or the Asian Games) and a string of players deciding 2018-2019 was the season they were going to be rubbish – Trippier, Eriksen, Alli, Dier (woeful) Lamela (always woeful) Moura at best brilliant but mostly woeful. Add in the stadium uncertainty for almost two seasons, and I think Poch has done a pretty damn remarkable job.

But wanting him sacked? Careful what you wish for – how many Arsenal fans wanted Wenger gone? How many Chelsea fans wanted Sarri out a few weeks ago? Manchester United speaks for itself and yes (though no red would admit it now) how many were calling for Klopp’s head two seasons ago?

I got chatting to two Spurs fans while queuing to get in – one slightly older than me and the other in his early 60’s. We remember only too well what it has been like at Tottenham - a club going the way of the likes of Huddersfield Town, Wolverhampton Wanderers and Leeds United – clubs that dominated English football for a spell and then….. The days of signing Ramon Vega and Nicola Berti (remember them?), the days of just being rubbish are all too clearly etched on our memories.

Spurs couldn’t stay at 36,000 White Hart Lane and hope to remain anywhere near the top of the English game. But unless you are owned by a country or a billionaire a billion times over, then everything can’t be achieved at once. Building that stadium is going to continue to hurt the playing side no doubt about that. That is what makes having someone like Poch so important to the future of the club. We’ll never be able to compete with the oil and gas billionaires, but we can be a successful and sensible football club if things continue to be done correctly.

But all we get are whingers who seem to forget the dark days all to quickly and seem to have some crazy notion of entitlement for no apparent reason. For Spurs, getting to the Champions League final was incredible. Thanks Poch (he's magic you know) and Harry, Moussa, Jan, Hugo, Son and the rest. But thanks too to Daniel Levy [&o]

COYS!!

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

...

The days of signing Ramon Vega and Nicola Berti (remember them?), ....

To be fair to Nicola Berti he scored twice in a very unlikely 3-0 win at Blackburn in one of those awful late 90s seasons - probably the win that kept us up that season.

Since I was working in Lancaster at that time, I went to more than my fair share of stand out awful performances at away games in Yorkshire and Lancashire and some remained seared into my brain.

So no. I'm not going to criticise Pochettino, or Kane, or forget just how bad we've been very recently. Its only about 6 seasons since Everton were clearly ahead of us in terms of progress and having a chance to actually get into the CL.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: loki100

ORIGINAL: warspite1

...

The days of signing Ramon Vega and Nicola Berti (remember them?), ....

To be fair to Nicola Berti he scored twice in a very unlikely 3-0 win at Blackburn......

warspite1

Goodness that must have accounted for the entirety of his goals scored ledger [;)]

[loki100]

yep, think that was his entire contribution, but if I recall those unexpected 3pts got us up to around 14/15 and thus relatively safe for the final part of the season.

[Crossroads]

Commiserations to all good Spurs fan on the forum. It hurts to lose a final, but, hopefully, as the hurt starts to slowly away, there's the golden sky and all that. Neverpool and We go again, but what's the altermative. You go again, and try to enjoy the journey while at it.

I have only heard the highest of praise from friends who went to Madrid, of the Spurs fans there, before, during, and after the match. Both sides fully supporting their own teams, carrying their own teams on. How rare's that. Spurs are a class team with a top manager and a shrewd owner playing the long game. What happens next I have no idea, but with Poch and Levy, I fully expect them to bounce back from this.

As for this ridiculous Kane conundrum, bobbins. So maybe he was not single handedly able to turn the game around, not this time, how on earth would that mean playing him lost the game. What utter bobbins indeed. So he perhaps lacked a bit of match fitness, but with the three week break, so did everyone else. Leveled playing ground and another reason to play him, if anything. He's a nightmare to defend against, always has been, always will be.

You Spurs should be proud of what you've achieved this season, with no money too. No one would have predicted this. I hope there's a trophy for Poch soon, just to shut everyone up about him.

[wodin]

We are to predictable when Kane plays.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Crossroads

Commiserations to all...Spurs fans on the forum.......I hope there's a trophy for Poch soon, just to shut everyone up about him [Italics added for emphasis].

warspite1

Cheers [:)] and agreed

[TulliusDetritus]

I find Jose interesting and instructive as a pundit. He was working for RT and the other day he made the last show. I admit I'm genuinely intrigued about his future. Italy?

Champions League final.