Empire of the Sun - Tag Team - New Japanese AAR

[Mifune]

"ONLY the Ki-51 is armored. Maybe I should find a small unit of these - for the bombing campaign." This might be the best option for a consistent strike, maybe even two small units? I would not want to ground up the KB pilots.

[el cid again]

The reason for sending a group of JAAF to Hawaii is to prevent eating up the KB in non-naval operations. And it may be hard to do. But I may have figured out how?

[Nemo121]

The easiest way to get your JAAF fighters to Hilo or Kona ( I would recommend Hilo ) is simply to fly them to Maloelap, transfer them onto a carrier ( ), move about 5 or 6 hexes east of Maloelap and then fly them to Johnston Island. From Johnston they can fly to Hilo.
 
Any of the 30 capacity CVEs will do the job just fine so long as you are OK limiting yourself to sending only 30-strong fighter Sentai at a time.... this is, however, generally more than sufficient so it should be a problem. With a total of 3 days per round trip you can get 90 Oscar Is or Me-109s to Hilo in just 10 days from the commencement of this shuttle service and all you will have risked is a CVE, not a bad return on investment.
 
Alternatively if you want your CVEs elsewhere just detach Hiryu or Soryu, fly all that CVs fighters and strike planes onto other elements of KB whose hangars have been depleted by losses. You'll still keep your throw weight plus now you'll be able to ferry in 60 fighters, dive-bombers etc every trip. The Kates can make the trip by themselves and so can, obviously, Zeroes although I'm certain the whole reason behind this is not to have to rely on Zeroes for this mission.
 
This is why it is so important to take Johnston early, it helps create your air bridge to Hawaii.
 
 
The alternative to all of this is just to take Wake and Midway as well as a minor base in the French Frigate Shoals. That will also give you the necessary air bridge without requiring the risking of a CVE in ferry runs. Its not rocket science, just good preparation.

[Kereguelen]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

The reason for sending a group of JAAF to Hawaii is to prevent eating up the KB in non-naval operations. And it may be hard to do. But I may have figured out how?

The occupation of the Hawaiian islands is a nice plan, but ... the other Hawaiian islands (Kauaii etc) were garrisoned by US Army forces historically. One US regiment (I think the 299th was split up to provide garrison/beach defense troops for the other islands. That is, there were not only troops at Oahu as in Stock/CHS/RHS, but infantry battalions at Hilo and Wailuku and smaller forces elsewhere. And there were some 7in naval guns (vintage, but still 7in) mounted at key locations. It should not be that easy to simply occupy the other Hawaiian islands, as it is now.

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: Nemo121

The easiest way to get your JAAF fighters to Hilo or Kona ( I would recommend Hilo ) is simply to fly them to Maloelap, transfer them onto a carrier ( ), move about 5 or 6 hexes east of Maloelap and then fly them to Johnston Island. From Johnston they can fly to Hilo.

Any of the 30 capacity CVEs will do the job just fine so long as you are OK limiting yourself to sending only 30-strong fighter Sentai at a time.... this is, however, generally more than sufficient so it should be a problem. With a total of 3 days per round trip you can get 90 Oscar Is or Me-109s to Hilo in just 10 days from the commencement of this shuttle service and all you will have risked is a CVE, not a bad return on investment.

Alternatively if you want your CVEs elsewhere just detach Hiryu or Soryu, fly all that CVs fighters and strike planes onto other elements of KB whose hangars have been depleted by losses. You'll still keep your throw weight plus now you'll be able to ferry in 60 fighters, dive-bombers etc every trip. The Kates can make the trip by themselves and so can, obviously, Zeroes although I'm certain the whole reason behind this is not to have to rely on Zeroes for this mission.

This is why it is so important to take Johnston early, it helps create your air bridge to Hawaii.


The alternative to all of this is just to take Wake and Midway as well as a minor base in the French Frigate Shoals. That will also give you the necessary air bridge without requiring the risking of a CVE in ferry runs. Its not rocket science, just good preparation.

In order to facilitate the use of CVLs for transfer:

1) I put the CVLs near Johnston Island;
2) I converted some JAAF units of the right size (30 planes) to use NAVAL planes - Claude and Kate.
3) These units could convert to ARMY type planes AFTER transfer forward.
4) I do not intend these units to be used as carrier planes in naval actions - but of course players could be gamey and do that
5) The units were placed forward to facilitate easy transfer.

AI never figured any of this out - and never transferred anything - either long range Ki-49s (which are pre production machines in tiny units) or the carrier capable ones however. Humans presumably might.

This proposal ignores the design intent of RHSEOS - but is viable for HUMAN players. RHSEOS has to be playable by AI as Japan as well. And I have figured this out for that purpose: I am forward basing on Molokai and Johnston (because short range increases sortee over target rate and reduces attrition losses in the case of Molokai - and because Johnson is "safer" for high value units; - and Johnston is in range of Ki-49s or naval planes in JAAF service);
I put air support elements into the forces landing on these islands; I put air units programmed to attack Oahu with the right mission at the altitudes I want (for AA reasons) on AKs and land them on these islands. The units land and are disabled - but repair up and start to function!

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: Kereguelen

ORIGINAL: el cid again

The reason for sending a group of JAAF to Hawaii is to prevent eating up the KB in non-naval operations. And it may be hard to do. But I may have figured out how?

The occupation of the Hawaiian islands is a nice plan, but ... the other Hawaiian islands (Kauaii etc) were garrisoned by US Army forces historically. One US regiment (I think the 299th was split up to provide garrison/beach defense troops for the other islands. That is, there were not only troops at Oahu as in Stock/CHS/RHS, but infantry battalions at Hilo and Wailuku and smaller forces elsewhere. And there were some 7in naval guns (vintage, but still 7in) mounted at key locations. It should not be that easy to simply occupy the other Hawaiian islands, as it is now.

Actually, this isn't correct. I did an unpublished game on invading Hawaii - on a grand tactical scale - and have gigantic maps and detail OBs - using materials from the curator of the US Army Aviation Museum on Oahu.
The best that can be said is that there were coast defenses in a few places - the strongest of them being Hilo.
I believe I put these into RHS already when I created the Hawaii Separate Coast Defense Brigade and an upgrade unit to suppliment it with guns added in 1942. There were tiny unmobilized elements of the HNG at a number of points - one of these went to Niihu a few days later when an incident involving a KB pilot and a local couple was reported there (there was no radio or land line, and the offending men were already dead, and the woman not a problem any longer).
Seems a HNG 2LT of Japanese ancestry begged permission to lead a platoon - and it was granted - this being before HNG was purged of Japanese and before the Hawaiian Territorial Guard (predominantly ethnic Japanese) was abolished (in spite of having mobilezed to repel an invasion by Gen Short). The term "split up" is the operative one above, and a bit of a problem to implement:

1) The elements were tiny - and each would require a slot;
2) Each such element taken from a major unit would technically duplicate elements of that unit - and if we subtract them the unit could not then "reform" at strength. This is already complicated: there were two regiments of HNG - one in each of the two divisions - which each also got two line regiments from the former Hawaii Division (square).
But both regiments were under strength - and then made more so by stripping out the Japanese members - who then formed the 100th Battalion - which was sent to ETO. Eventually the two regiments were themselves combined - and a different (Washington National Guard) regiment replaced one of them. But ultimately both are elements of divisions which really went to full size - and one of them covered itself in glory - so forcing those divisions to be weaker than they became is not ideal as a solution.
3) Base elements can easily account for the tiny elements in question - and probably already do.
4) The coast defenses were a combination of old and new. I don't think there were any 7 inch - but there were 9.2 inch (if memory serves). In addition, there were some 155s sent to at least one of the islands - CD type.

I can look this up in files if it appears that some are missing or wrongly present on Oahu. I will take a look at the units on the islands.

Finally - note that nothing prevents the Allies from actually defending the islands - and I always do myself! You just have to be clever about it.

EDIT: OK - it appears the principle defended points - Hilo and Lahaina Roads - do have base forces - but these are in the generic form - and do not include US Army CD units or HNG detachments. This can easily be remedied. I think there is also a HNG company on Kona and there were some 155s sent to Molokai - can check.

[el cid again]

I have found your seven inch guns! Or some of them. They are not a factor in a 1941 invasion, but 2 unnamed batteries were stood to in 1942 on Kauai. Each had 2 guns.

I have found another battery: 2x 7 inch named Battery Randolph - supplimenting 2x 14 inch - placed in 1913 and
removed in 1944. But again, this is not a factor for the outer islands - because they are on Oahu at Fort DeRussy near Waikiki Beach. I believe they are represented by 8 inch in RHS.

[el cid again]

47th Coast Arty Rgt formed 15 Apr 43 with 155s - transferred to Hawaii in 1944 - and split into 3 battalions
which were renamed 32nd, 33rd and 34th CA Battalions - for various island defenses.

[el cid again]

Hawaii Separate Coast Artillery Brigade included

15th Coast Artillery Regiment (Pearl Harbor)
16th Coast Artillery Regiment (Oahu)
251st Coast Artillery Regiment (Anti-Aircraft)

and after 21 Apr 42

Railway Coast Artillery Regiment

and some time in 1944

47th Coast Artillery Regiment

[TheElf]

Is this an AAR or another episode of "look how smart I am"?[&:][;)]

Seriously, when does the actual AAR start?

[el cid again]

We have to finish our work - and there have been some technical issues. Now they are winding down - we can start.

The command area to the SW includes naval units of some import - including a division of battleships (Nagato and Mutsu - the best in Japan), a squadron of heavy cruisers, and - along with a great many old and short range submarines - a squadron of the newest and best: 2 Type A1 long range subs with floatplanes - and 2 Type J3s - both modified with the dual 5.5inch forward mounting. These subs are meant to contest the Indian Ocean area on the other side of the Malay/DEI Barrior at the start of the war - and base on Saigon initially (moving presumably to Singapore eventually). Mifune hopefully can use these to force the Allies to escort in waters distant from Japan. EDIT: I should have said - but didn't remember - and it was not present in EOS so it was not guiding me properly - that J3s are sort of "Pre B type" scouting subs - with planes. I have fixed this issue and they now are. They were OK in all other scenarios - but not in all three levels of EOS - not sure why?

I have a similar force of five old but ultra long range J1 type subs - 4 watching the West Coast and one the approaches to Panama. I have six aircraft carrier subs preforming dual recon/search roles near objectives of the Hawaii operation. The idea is to have intel even before ships or land based air stands up in the area - to minimize surprises. [This programming is also meant to help AI if it runs Japan in some private game]

There is one squadron of five new long range, fast fleet subs fitted with midgets (think of them as one extra but ultra long range torpedo tube - albiet only an 18 inch warhead). There are about of squadrons of medium sized "Kaidai" vessels - more or less old, not so old, and new - 4 to 6 in a squadron - which will be supplimented by a squadron of 4 minelayers, two squadrons of old smaller vessels, and a half squadron (pair) of newer ones. While historically IJN put many of these in the PTO - on defense duty around the Mandated islands - I have put the old, small vessels in the South China Sea - based on Saigon - under Mifune's control - for operations vs the Dutch East Indies - and possibly the Bay of Bengal. The somewhat longer ranged KDs are mostly supporting the operations vs Hawaii - the moves South from Rabaul - or the moves toward PI and DEI from Palau.

During 1942 and 1943 Japan will get a number of additional Type A and B (with planes) and C (with midgets) large submarines - as well as more of the medium sized KDs. Production of smaller submarines does not ramp up until 1943 - but from then on EOS has a focus on more medium and smaller vessels and fewer gigantic ones than IRL - mostly substituting one for one. Similarly, EOS does not produce a lot of the big submarines with attack aircraft. [The original I-400 program called for a single prototype vessel - this was amended to 18 by Adm Yamamoto. Eventually, that was reduced to 6 still larger ships - plus conversion of several Type A subs to something similar to the original I-400 - with 2 bombers. In EOS you get only two of these giants - and it is hard to imagine their having any great impact on a major battle - but they might matter in distant waters contesting the SLOC]. Late in the war IRL - and more so in EOS - we get lots of short range submarines of high performance. Yet another capability is submarine transports. We don't get quite as many as IRL - the Navy elected to buy smaller attack boats instead - but we still get the big Navy transports and the small Army ones - which presumably we can use for raiding or evacuating - not just the supply role they were designed for.

The problem is that Japan has a medium sized submarine force but faces many and major enemies. No matter how we concentrate efforts - and historical ones changed major policy five times - we won't have enough to win with them. The guerre de course is never victorious - it only contributes to victory. I say we use the long range vessels to force the enemy to escort and patrol - tieing down resources - and the smaller ones to contest his advances - or retreats earlier in the war. I see no reason not to allocate most of the shorter ranged vessels to Mifune - along the flanks - in the Northern Area and the SW area (if that is the right name) as they complete. Any surviving older short range vessels - and the ultra new ones that complete late in the war - can defend the center if the enemy is able to penetrate to it. We use the medium sized Kaidai's in the Pacific - but on this side - and the large boats are the ones that ocasionally go to distant points - so he can not feel entirely safe anywhere.

I left the 4 minelayers in port at Saigon - for Mifune in this case - or any player in another game - to decide where to lay mines. There are similarly 2 Kaidai subs at Palau and at Truk (each) - to replace losses or permit players to decide on other points of focus other than the plan I have handed them. In general, submarines adopt a policy on the first day of the war that is nearly suicide later: contest ports and constricted points. The Allies ASW will never be as awful as it is on this day - nor as distracted by other things to do with airplanes or escorts. Many ships will be running to bring aid - or even more often to get away from - a contested area. It is likely a large fraction of these submarines will find targets. ONCE they do - a submarine should in most cases move. Even AI will route around the area - and humans will both evade the sub and may consider allocating ASW forces to try and kill it.

[el cid again]

Do we want the I-400s? That is, do we want them as aircraft carriers? If not we have options.

They have a unique airplane - not present on other subs because we don't do Type AM in EOS.
We might kill the plane? I don't like that - because it is better than the E-16 - and we can upgrade to it.
Also - we were using it to represent Judy on the seaplane semi-carriers- but now I know a REGULAR
plane WILL fly from a carrier or seaplane carrier! [I accidently set a BB to fly A6M2 meaning A6M2-N -
and it works!]

More interesting - we could build them (there are only two right now - but there could be more. I converted 4 to finish as Type KD subs] as tankers. As Grand Escort Command guy you might want the ability to deliver cargo - in this case supply points I think - by submarine. But you have no great shortage of transport subs - this one is just bigger.

We could replace them with more medium sized KD boats - or something else. Or we can keep them for scouting for the fleet - stuff like that. 2 are not going to break Panama. They also have the longest range of any non-nuclear subs of all time - and we might like that too.

[el cid again]

It is also time to decide on "Western Operations".

Specifically - how do you feel about the concept of invading Ceylon?

It might be feasible - and if it is - it might change the focus of Allied counteroperations later in the war.
It meets my criteria of

a) Deny bases for enemy heavy air units in range of the SRA;
b) Fight over things we do not need;
c) Take positions from which we can wage effective SLOC warfare.

It also generates some supplies - which is better than most points in the Pacific - where we need to haul in everything.

The problem is - as always for Japan - timing. We can't do it late. And we can't do it first. And after taking Hawaii and the SRA - we may not be in good enough shape (in terms of ship maintenance, air unit strength, etc) to take it.

So I think it is a contingency option - something to do if we are doing well.

Holding the Malay barrier, Sumatra, Burma and the Andaman Islands - operations re Ceylon are not too risky. But I want to bring in the heavy mobile forces to cover the approach of the major invasion force - just in case it provokes a reaction - and also to eat whatever does not run. I don't like this much- I like to be in the Western Pacific - and not being there creates opportunities for Allied mischef - so I want to do it fast - and leave the place to your management.

[Mifune]

"how do you feel about the concept of invading Ceylon?" I had a feeling this would come up. I have not had a chance to see how best to employ this possibility. I have only war gamed out the first month a couple of times in our interlude. I too believe timing is everything with this one. It can not obviously be an initial operation, but it needs to be relatively early for its success. Nemo has made many fine points of this neccesity and its value for overall success for the Japanese effort.

[Mifune]

"Do we want the I-400s? That is, do we want them as aircraft carriers?" After seeing the A.I vs. A.I. game we might want to keep that possibility open. It might represent one of very few late war raiding options. Though I too doubt its worthiness of investment.

[Mifune]

One of my initial concerns has to do in relation with the Grand Escort Command . There are many Allied subs within easy striking distance right off the bat. I am assuming that you plan to deal a death blow to Manila, even so the Russians have quite a few waiting to come out and play. I believe that one needs to assume a major ASW effort at the start of the game.

[el cid again]

I assume no Russian subs. Never in a human game have I seen them. It would be an act of war to send them - and so humans don't do that.

The best ASW is to hunt them from the sky - IRL and more so in WITP. So we hunt them. If a bomber unit has nothing to do - it is hunting subs. Maybe we just do that - maybe we formally transfer them to Grand Escort Command until needed again - but either way - our bombers "train" by hunting subs!

I am considering dumping all H6K2-L transports into the DNKKK civil unit - it can expand to 32 machines - and converting the military units to H6K4 patrol planes - so they can hunt subs when not otherwise occupied. It reduces transport capacity vs keeping all units transports - but this way we don't buy any transports - and get more patrol power - and we can always build transports and convert squadrons if we want to. The peculiar way RHS does flying boat transports means we can convert back and forth at will - but I won't arm the civliians.

[el cid again]

Also - I intend to invade Aussie territory on day 1 - and follow up in the winter.cammpt be ised

[Mifune]

"Also - I intend to invade Aussie territory on day 1" Seems to me that I have seen this manuever before. [;)]

[Mifune]

"The best ASW is to hunt them from the sky" I concur, especially with no escort vessels to spare for such duties.