Impression

[Oleg Mastruko]

What's planned for CC6?
 
Honestly, yes, I belong to the "slightly disappointed" club here - not so much because of price, but because this *might* have been the wasted opportunity to *really* revitalize and refresh this fantastic engine (graphics, UI, sounds, usability...)
 
Now, I said "might have been the wasted opportunity". Perhaps the opportunity is not entirely wasted, yet. If this CC:CoI, meagre as it is, is just a stepping stone towards CC6 I am all ears [X(]
 

[Oleg Mastruko]

ORIGINAL: old man of the sea
undercovergeek has it, this game was released 10 years ago. The average gamer is between 22 and 38 years old. That means that the average 28 and under gamer most likely never saw CC3. Half the market. It makes it a great idea to re-release it.

Sorry mate but whoever thinks this re-release will get any new players to the genre/series is smoking some strong stuff... For any new player this game has "dated!" written accross it's forehead. CC:CoI is aimed at old CC players and this is in a way cashing on nostalgia. Hey, nothing wrong with that - it's a perfecly legitimate business model, as long as we all know what we're in for.

Also, I have personally seen bazillion posts on various boards to the tune of "please god just give us the old CC3, 100% same, just make it work under XP". As they say be careful what you wish for, you might get it [;)]

Anyhow, just wanted to say what I think/hope/want:

a) CC:CoI will not bring more than 12 new players to the genre/series. Whoever thinks otherwise needs to play more games.
b) If that's the end of the CC line - let us know.
c) If it's a stepping stone towards *really* new CC6 - I am sure many of us here would like to know more [8D]

[Beeblebrox]

There is no shortage of intention, just a massive shortage of resources ($$$).  I believe Close Combat does NEED a facelift, but that is not necessarily the biggest issue in terms of a new release.  It is far more important that the AI foundations of CC are taken forwards to the next generation, and that is a time intensive, costly, and high risk initiative.  Why high risk?  If you spend man years of work building a behavioural and psychological system based on complex interactions, there is no way you are going to be able to gurantee if the result will work, not just as a simulator, but as a game.  What if you spend 5 man years work on the AI, and find it does not actually deliver to the standard you need?  Big gamble.  Who's going to front up tons of spondoolicks to resource that?
 
Through this and other releases, we are going to try and mobilise some serious work on CC.  That is our intention and hope.  Real life may have other plans, but all we can do is bang the rocks together until it happens, or doesn't as the case may be.... oh, and hope that luck is on our side...
 
You have no idea how important all your support is, and has been over the years.  It is part of why we are still here, and even have the remotest hope of taking it on further.

[Beeblebrox]

CC:CoI is aimed at old CC players and this is in a way cashing on nostalgia.

We have to differ.  before CC came out, there was a world of peolpe who never played anything like it.
 
A decade on, there is another generation of players who have never played anything like it.  I don't buy the 'dated graphics' excuse.  It's not the graphics that 'pulls' is it?  Once that gets around, I am sure that there will be plenty of new players coming on board.  It was and never will be a preferred 'wargame' to those who are committed FPS players.
 
Game play is everything.  There is no competition to CC at the moment IMO.  I use a very simple perspective:
 
Drop dead gorgeous graphics, crap game play - crap game, possible short term sales, but no longevity.
Crap graphics, drop dead gorgeous game play - great game, less short terms sales, much longevity
 
But I have absolutely no objection at all to taking CC into drop dead gorgeous graphics.  What a great complement to a great game!

[Oleg Mastruko]

ORIGINAL: Beeblebrox

There is no shortage of intention, just a massive shortage of resources ($$$).  I believe Close Combat does NEED a facelift, but that is not necessarily the biggest issue in terms of a new release. 

You're one of the guys on this project? A developer? So I take it that your answer on "what's planned for CC6" may be summed up as "I don't have a clue!" [:)]

[Oleg Mastruko]

ORIGINAL: Beeblebrox

CC:CoI is aimed at old CC players and this is in a way cashing on nostalgia.

We have to differ.  before CC came out, there was a world of peolpe who never played anything like it.

A decade on, there is another generation of players who have never played anything like it.  .

And they most probably never will. At least not in CC:CoI's current form.

They will read the press release (if it appears on Gamespot, and I haven't seen it so far), see the screenshots and say "so *this* is what granpa's Company of Heros looked like??? well poor granpa" and go back to their Blitzkrieg and CoH shallow RTS bullsh1t, never realising beyond terrible UI and aging graphics exists one of the best tactical engines ever. I mean, it's not like you actually *helped* them, by updating the UI and graphics haven't you?

I don't buy the 'dated graphics' excuse. It's not the graphics that 'pulls' is it?

Yea we CC veterans know it, but young guys don't.

However, I would not even completely agree with this assesment. When it was first released CC3 was graphically quite capable game. Now would it hurt devs if they implemented, say, proper zoom (mouse wheel), with proper scaling and interpolation today's 2D graphics engines are well capable of? Instead, we still have 4x enlarged pixels, which to be honest is totally unacceptable for 2007s graph and UI standards.

Drop dead gorgeous graphics, crap game play - crap game, possible short term sales, but no longevity.
Crap graphics, drop dead gorgeous game play - great game, less short terms sales, much longevity

Nothing new here - it's an age old mantra of developers that are unable to make their game look acceptable [:D] Any customer failing to see how great their game might be, behind atrocious UI and bad graphics, must be stupid, right? Well it isn't always like that....

[Shaun Wallace]

You're one of the guys on this project? A developer? So I take it that your answer on "what's planned for CC6" may be summed up as "I don't have a clue!"

Not sure where you get that idea really! Do not forget that we have been working on military CC projects, some not even finishished that will have a huge impact on CC6. There are many things that will come out with CC6 that we know of and that are already underway. The limitary products have led development in many directions.

Imagine CC with:

• 5 on 5 MP Play
  4 X or more larger maps
  Pre-deploy fortifications
  Scripting to allow for other Victory Conditions and in game options, set up via scenario editor
  Complete AAR of any game
  Civilians
  Mount and dismount of units onto and off vehicles
  Major AI improvments
  Dig In / Fortification commands
  A raft of new menu options in game
  New unit types

This is just a part of what could already be completed or Not .... CC6 is well on the way and we have major plans for it. We have even bigger plans for CC7.

CC: CoI is a release to serve 3 main purposes.
To give back something back to the grogs who have been around for a long time waiting for something from CC.
Wanting to get new players into both CC and the modding scene by making things much easier and far more widely accesssible.
Last but not least, to help fund the development of said CC6 and CC7.

We are all at Simtek CC nuts and wargamers and love what we do. Unlike mainstream game develoment its not huge bucks and sometimes its tough, but we all want to bring the next generation of CC to fruition and to the gaming public. Many of you know me from CSO and know that its not always been easy keeping such a huge download site going, but things ahve changed and we have the opportunity to bring CC back to life with a bang. Thats really the long and short of where we are and what we want for the future

Sulla

[Shaun Wallace]

Actually, Oleg, thats not strictly true. CC that looked like SS or Blitz etc, but still played like CC would be nice yes, but the game play is where its at.
 
With CC7, there will be major graphic overhaul to bring it into line with more modern games, but top down and maybe isometric are still where CC will be at. Its simply the most efficient use of the GUI for a tactical game of this scope. Now Strat layer, thats a totally different story and major plans are in the works for this
 
Sulla

[old man of the sea]

ORIGINAL: Oleg Mastruko

Sorry mate but whoever thinks this re-release will get any new players to the genre/series is smoking some strong stuff... For any new player this game has "dated!" written accross it's forehead. CC:CoI is aimed at old CC players and this is in a way cashing on nostalgia. Hey, nothing wrong with that - it's a perfecly legitimate business model, as long as we all know what we're in for.

There are lots of games out there that prove that game play is more important than graphics in the wargame theatre. Hell, GI Combat sold 30,000 units retail and is still bringing in big bucks off of digital download. Its a butt ugly game with marginal game play. If CoI does half that SimTek will be doing great for development money.

E

[Prince of Eckmühl]

Since Eric has spoken about G.I.Combat, let me respectfully chime in.

I believe that a lot of people took it for a given that the next step in the evolution of Close Combat should be to take the concept 3-D. GIC was the result. For a host of reasons, it never measured up to CC in terms of gameplay. And I don't believe that any game engine ever has, at least not on this unit scale. For that reason, I think that folks grousing about the graphics in CC3 or CoI is kinda silly. Simply put, what do you want, a pretty screen-saver running wide-open on your desktop, or a great game?

PoE (aka ivanmoe)

[Llyranor]

ORIGINAL: Beeblebrox
However, we took the opportunity to complement CC3 with additonal features and services. Whilst this has gone down quite well with some (as seen by posts on this and CSO Forums), I am not convinced that this will make as much difference to potential new players as some would have us believe. To a new player, CC3 is new game, so what's the difference?

Don't think for a moment that the new content isn't appreciated. CC3 may be new for me, but having 26 new maps and changes for more realism and improvements to AI are all things I can completely support.

[spadman]

Oleg said Sorry mate but whoever thinks this re-release will get any new players to the genre/series is smoking some strong stuff... For any new player this game has "dated!" written accross it's forehead. CC:CoI is aimed at old CC players and this is in a way cashing on nostalgia. Hey, nothing wrong with that - it's a perfecly legitimate business model, as long as we all know what we're in for.

I am definitely one of those that are a new player to CC. $40 didnt seem so bad to me because it was a new game to me. I cant imagine that I am one of a very few that are going to be drawn into this game as a release that seems quite interesting.

[Adam Parker]

Just a general reply to the group here - no one in particular - as it's moved rapidly! But I've probably learned more about the game here - shortcomings and strengths than in all other threads put together and any marketing support material.
 
I think there is definitely a basis for some to be cynical about Matrix of late as being focused on charging "full prices" for re-releases. But there's nothing wrong with that. As Erik alluded to, Matrix is simply exploring and answering market demand. Hell, if they reprinted the full AH catalogue complete with mounted boards, I'd take out an equity loan to buy it up full price!
 
But in the arena of PC war gaming, only if I see a huge improvement to gameplay or I've never owned an original will I now invest in such a beast (Carriers at War will be an example of the latter for me). So, if someone say's "don't buy a game if you already own it because the changes are minimal", as has been posted here, then I'll say "thanks for the heads up".
 
That said, though, there really seems to be a very odd conflict of opinions here - some say CC:CoI has no worthy improvements to gameplay whilst others say it does. I'm thoroughly confused (and I did read the release notes).
 
As for CC as series, I love CC5 (Normandy) - picked it up for $10AUD new off the retail shelf (published by Red Ant Games). CC4 which I believe covered the Ardennes absolutely appalled me for its brain dead AI. Hence, remembering the controversy over the CC3 Russia's AI (the basis for CC:CoI), I really am looking to see 10-20 posters in a row say to me here - "the AI is vastly improved and a blast to play - buy it"! Till then I'll have to rely on threads like this for the game's debate.

[Monkeys Brain]

[quote]ORIGINAL: Oleg Mastruko


Oleg came up with all guns blazing a cavarly arrived lol
Just joking, nice thread.

About CC6, if you plan to make game of exporting american democracy to iraq, you will not do well in europe, I guarantee you.

[Oleg Mastruko]

First of all Sulla thanks for the informative reply! Sounds good, I am sure many here will agree......

ORIGINAL: Prince of Eckmühl
I believe that a lot of people took it for a given that the next step in the evolution of Close Combat should be to take the concept 3-D. GIC was the result.

Way I understood only Eric Young thought CC oughta go 3D, so being the main game designer for CC series he did it (and I think we'll all agree - failed). Most of us here would be OK with CC staying 2D in presentation (I know I will).

However, staying in the realm of 2D does not have to mean "never changing a thing". Many many things can and should be improved graphic, and UI wise. Just take a look at the COTA series UI! Fully zoomable map, yay!!

[Udi]

Interesting points from all and thanks for the answers!
Also thanks to Marc for deciding for me if I buy or not the game: after those arrogant answers I am really not going to give anything to Matrix.

Back to CCIII + RR. I was really waiting for this one.

[Oleg Mastruko]

ORIGINAL: Udi

Interesting points from all and thanks for the answers!
Also thanks to Marc for deciding for me if I buy or not the game: after those arrogant answers I am really not going to give anything to Matrix.

Oh come on, Marc is German-Italian, he has to be arrogant [:D] I guess it's from too much parma cheese + beer. [:'(] He's cool guy most of the time though.....

[dobeln]

Funnily enough, this thread sold me on CoI - A modern, supported CC with Multiplayer is something I've wanted for a long time  

[bink]

Why is there no retail distribution of this game? e.g. Best Buy, CompUSA, etc?

[Beeblebrox]

"what's planned for CC6" may be summed up as "I don't have a clue!" [:)]

We have plenty of clues grasshopper, even you do! [:D] but not the dosh.  It's a mean mad tricksy world out there, but no generous patrons falling over themselves to be first in line to put the money in.  Look see what does attract the serious money... it ain't CC!  Could CC ever become a top selling global game?  I doubt it.
 
I could no more play Motor Smashup Madness Thing Type Game than drill a hole in my head, well unless I was out of my skull at the time, and I probably would regret it afterwards... [8D]