The Falklands Conflict

[mjk428]

ORIGINAL: Ike99
The Malvinas have been Argentine territory sence the formation of Argentina, always have been, always will be. That cannot be changed.

Didn't "Argentina" sorta belong to somebody else before the Spanish Empire colonized the area? It's not like peaceful farmers created the great Argentine civilzation at the dawn of man - so "always have been" is quite a stretch.

[Dixie]

Regardless of how the Falklands came to be British and the hows and wherefores, rights and wrongs, the islanders want it to remain this way and the British government supports them.

[mjk428]

ORIGINAL: Dixie

Regardless of how the Falklands came to be British and the hows and wherefores, rights and wrongs, the islanders want it to remain this way and the British government supports them.

I completely agree. I'd also add that once Argentina took the islands by force they left the UK little choice but to take them back.

[Ike99]

Regardless of how the Falklands came to be British and the hows and wherefores, rights and wrongs, the islanders want it to remain this way and the British government supports them.

I completely agree. I'd also add that once Argentina took the islands by force they left the UK little choice but to take them back.

The several thousand islanders may want it this way but 40 million Argentines do not and the Argentine government supports them.[:'(]

And because Britian took the islands by force from Argentina 1st that left the Argentine government little choice but to take them back by force.[;)]

[mjk428]

ORIGINAL: Ike99

And because Britian took the islands by force from Argentina 1st that left the Argentine government little choice but to take them back by force.[;)]

Except for that 150 years or so it took Argentina to act. Britain's claims predate Argentinian independence - as do Spanish, French (& Dutch?). The issue can't really be decided by who was there first anymore.

Why is it that Maggie didn't also feel compelled to take back the 13 colonies? By your logic, Spain is also within its rights to show up in Buenos Aires tomorrow with an invasion force to take back what was taken from them a couple of hundred years ago.

[ezzler]

If you read Razors Edge which is all about the land combat , it gives a fair amount of insight into the actual batles and how they came about.
 It also clearly shows that Argentina was a FACIST Dictatorship, with secret police , death squads and everything else that that entails.
 Being invaded by Argentina would be like Hawaii being take over by the North Koreans. The Korean can say 'well you've only been here 70 years, really its ours'
 The USA's response would be the same as the UK's and rightly so.

[Jeffrey H.]

ORIGINAL: ezz

If you read Razors Edge which is all about the land combat , it gives a fair amount of insight into the actual batles and how they came about.
It also clearly shows that Argentina was a FACIST Dictatorship, with secret police , death squads and everything else that that entails.
Being invaded by Argentina would be like Hawaii being take over by the North Koreans. The Korean can say 'well you've only been here 70 years, really its ours'
The USA's response would be the same as the UK's and rightly so.

And Japan should surrender to China and Korea as all inhabitants of Japan undoubtedly came from the mainland and they essentially stole most of their "culture" from the Koreans.

[Ike99]

It also clearly shows that Argentina was a FACIST Dictatorship, with secret police , death squads and everything else that that entails.
Being invaded by Argentina would be like Hawaii being take over by the North Koreans. The Korean can say 'well you've only been here 70 years, really its ours'

Have you looked at the history of Britains Imperial past? It's VERY LONG and well documented. Destroying an Argentine town on its soverign territory (notice-as recognized by Spain, you do understand the concept of Soverignty yes?)then removing the rightful citizens, replacing them with British colonist is about like being invaded by Nazis in 1939 for German ¨Lebensraum¨

The whole British defense of the issue is something like...¨well this is way the islanders want it so that´s the way it`s going to be.¨ Notice they don`t say the Falklands are our territory.

This very defense acknowledges the Malvinas are not British territory but Argentine. They just have this complication of having placed colonist on the place illegaly.

Fair enough.

Return the Malvinas. Give the islanders dual citizenship if they wish to stay and keep raising their sheep or let Britian pay for their resettlement somewhere else on British territory.

[Raverdave]

Ike99, I have no idea who you are or where you come from but you have managed to hi-jack this thread from a discussion about Military history and turned it into a political mud slinging match.  Go to Mad Cows to have such discussions, not here.[:-]

[bradfordkay]

Of course you guys did hear about the three British soldiers who had been badly wounded performing heroic acts in the Falklands War. Some years later a grateful government offered them a reward for their heroism.

A representative of the govt came to the hospital ward in Londin and told them that they each would receive a thousand pounds per inch of any measurement of their bodies.

The first, a gangly fellow from Clydeside responded: "From the tip of me fingers of me outstretched hands to the other.'

The measurement was duly measured and he received 74,000 pounds sterling.

The second fellow, a tall youth from the midlands asked for the measurement to be from the tip of his head to his toes and received 76,000 pounds in payment.

The third fellow piped up: "From the tip of me p***s to me balls, sir!"

The gov't man was taken aback and asked, "Are you absolutely sure?"

Whereupon the the soldier responded "Yes Sir!' and dropped his drawers.

The representative of Her Majesty's Government duly bent down to take the measurement and exclaimed in shock: "Good Heavens! Where ARE your balls, soldiers?!"

"Goose Green, Falkland Islands, Sir!"

[SemperAugustus]

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

Also, another little tidbit of info about it.

Argentina had to attack when it did. The military Junta at the time did not want to...they wanted to wait...time was on their side apart from one thing...discontent in Argentina. Had Argentina waited, they would've gained a large quantity of Exocet missiles from the French....they only had 5. These proved extremely effective against the "tinderbox" frigates of the RN. If they had more of these missiles, it's entirely possible Britain would either have had to work on a diplomatic tact...or risk the entire task force to these excellent weapons.

The British were also just about to get rid of their carriers. If the Argintines had waited a couple more months the British wouldn't have air cover either...

[SemperAugustus]

When returning it to Spain, right? It was a Spanish town, not a Argentine town.
Also in international law possesion matters, whatever the quality of the original claim, why does the UK need to give it anyone? They have no obligation to Argentina.

Also given Argentinian history with the Mapuche during the 19th century, they can hardly say that the British were particularly brutal compared to themselves.

[Ike99]

Ike99, I have no idea who you are or where you come from but you have managed to hi-jack this thread from a discussion about Military history and turned it into a political mud slinging match. Go to Mad Cows to have such discussions, not here.

I`ve hijacked nothing and I didn`t create this thread. I have simply responded to others comments from the Argentine point of view. Not a British one. Or is only British points of view allowed here?

Sorry if these valid points have made some peoples moral high ground a little bit unstable or effected someones concience.

And just maybe if you wish to brag about how you were in the Aussie green machine and hoping the war would escalate so you could join in maybe you need to go to a military veterans forum and post this. Not a gaming site.[;)]

Yes this is a gaming site so perhaps this thread shouldn`t have been started or perhaps it should be closed.

Hi SemperAgustus, well I would respond but I will just end my comments on this here. I come to this forum for gaming. I´ll leave it like that. [:D]

[Hertston]

ORIGINAL: Ike99

The whole British defense of the issue is something like...¨well this is way the islanders want it so that´s the way it`s going to be.¨ Notice they don`t say the Falklands are our territory.

This very defense acknowledges the Malvinas are not British territory but Argentine. They just have this complication of having placed colonist on the place illegaly.

Bull.

That is certainly one 'defence' (none is needed) - i.e that what the people who actually happen to live there might want should count. It 'acknowledges' nothing of the sort, Britain has both exercised and claimed sovereignty since 1833. 'Resettlement' my arse...

Feel free to step outside to the Steakhouse.. [;)]

[Ike99]

Hertston-That is certainly one 'defence' (none is needed) - Feel free to step outside to the Steakhouse..

Last comment from me on this thread MODS, I promise, I promise, I promise. [&o][:D]

Ahh...no defense is needed? I see. So I assume this position too then, the Malvinas are Argentine...uuhhh...period.[8|]

Feel free to step outside to the steakhouse? Haa.
That´s funny. Looks to me like you boys got a little
more than you can handle right now in Iraq mate.[;)]

[7th Somersets]

Ike 99,
 
Do you not see the point that I made earlier? Clearly you will disagree with others about who occupied the Falkland Islands first (you seem to limit your history to Argentine independence from Spain - and ignore the French and British presence on the then unoccupied Islands that predated that by over 100 years.) We will obviously disagree on the history of the Islands.
 
BUT the point is that at some point people need to accept what are historical boundaries, or the world will continue to have uneccessary wars. Is there any point in people being killed today over what is now a nearly 200 year old change?
 
I'm off to stake my claim to some Norman village courtesy of William the Conquorer (King of Normandy and England in 1066) - er, or should I be giving up my house to the Normans? 
 
 
 
 

[JudgeDredd]

ORIGINAL: Ike99
I`ve hijacked nothing and I didn`t create this thread.

No I did...and it was about the conflict, not the sovergnty of the islands. Personally I think it daft that a country so far away should come under citizenship of the UK when they are so close to Argentine, but that is how it is.

A country simply cannot stand by a let an island with people living under the protection of it's flag just disappear. I would say the same if the British had invaded the Falkands and Argentinians wanted to protect there citizens.

ORIGINAL: Ike99
Yes this is a gaming site so perhaps this thread shouldn`t have been started or perhaps it should be closed.

There is nothing wrong with the thread in the General Discussion forum, unless I misunderstand the concept of General...it does not need to be closed if people remain civil. Get on topic and talk about the conflict, not who was in the right or wrong.

ORIGINAL: Ike99
That´s funny. Looks to me like you boys got a little
more than you can handle right now in Iraq mate.

and that is very much uncalled for [:-], no matter what country you are from.

[Ike99]

and that is very much uncalled for , no matter what country you are from.

You right JudgeDredd, he made a juvenile comment along the lines of my country can wip your country I think...I responded in kind.

So I was as juvenile as he was and shouldn´t have been. My apologies to any Brits that comment may have offended.

I can tell you I am to young to have been sent at the time but my neighbor was there and captured by the British. He says he was not treated like a house guest but was not mistreated by the British either.

So maybe that will make someone feel better. [;)]

[LarryP]

ORIGINAL: Ike99

I can tell you I am to young to have been sent at the time but my neighbor was there and captured by the British. He says he was not treated like a house guest but was not mistreated by the British either.

I'm going to kick myself later today for entering this but I just have to say this... I just read about how the British treated their captives during the Revolutionary War. Ike, your neighbor was darn lucky, or they have really changed their ways. [X(] However, part of my country used to enslave people so I guess the times have changed us all. [:)]

[sprior]

Kick away! What did you read and where?