Which of the files contain aircraft?

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JWE
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RE: Which of the files contain aircraft?

Post by JWE »

ORIGINAL: m10bob
As pointed out by JWE, so many factors are involved in a true work up, to include air density, height, humidity, PSI at altitude, the whole nine yards.

Holy Cow, Bob!! [X(] Did I say all that!!

Jokin aside, I really am curious about what goes into your maneuver model. The yacht design world has a lot of fun modeling toys to play with; way different Reynolds numbers, and way more attention on laminar/turbulent flow boundaries, but I thought plugging some of this stuff into an IMS VPP might be interesting.
Dili
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RE: Which of the files contain aircraft?

Post by Dili »

The first thing to do is to try to understand how the Witp model work. I guess no one knows. I criticized RHS formula because i think(assuming WITP uses speed for air combat) it factors speed twice.

Excluding Pilot habilities for Air Combat we have  Speed,Ceiling(?),Climb,Mvr. Note: We dont know what are their relative weight in Game.

Speed = self explanatory
Ceiling = think it gives a bonus to what plane have more ceiling or it might just a be an altitude limit without any relevance for Air Combat calculations.
Climb = a factor for change of altitude and maybe reaction time to intercept bombers attacking a base. It will be good if we know if it also affects level acceleration or it is just a factor for vertical plane operation.
Mvr = Just what is not in others. I think the elusive MVR should factor Wing Area, Drag(easy to compare crudely, just engine power Vs speed) and maybe acceleration if it is not factored in Climb. G limit will be here too if we would be in Jets.

el cid again
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RE: Which of the files contain aircraft?

Post by el cid again »

The routine used depends on the situation. If CAP meets ESCORT or other aircraft, it is different than if the target is intercepted by planes starting on the ground. Further, the routine is sophisticated in some senses: over time the planes react to air raids, rotate the CAP, stuff like
that. [You may set 10% CAP - but find the second raid meets 60% of the fighters] I speculate that ROC matters more if you are intercepting. And it will look at altitude of the target. Not only high - but low. If you cannot penetrate at altitude - try going in at 100 feet. You will ALWAYS reach the target, and be intercepted either once or not at all. Lovely routine.

We are told by a programmer that maneuverability is the largest weighted factor - so we pay a lot of attention to it.

Some factors are indeed represented more than once - one of those being weight of airframe. Power loading and wing loading BOTH have weight in them - and we use both.

A problem with many ideas (including some above) is that the data is not available for all the 250 plane types we need to use. It is not good to use valid data for some and guesses for the rest. Now we do have a better data set en route from UK - and that may help a bit. We will see.

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JWE
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RE: Which of the files contain aircraft?

Post by JWE »

ORIGINAL: Dili

The first thing to do is to try to understand how the Witp model work. I guess no one knows. I criticized RHS formula because i think(assuming WITP uses speed for air combat) it factors speed twice.

Ain't that the truth Dili.

I've always wondered why the manual don't have the simple algorythmic version. It would save a lot of code analysis time for serious modders.

RHS does not change the code. If there is a formula change it will only be in a patch or a proprietary executable (.exe file). Believe me, I know about that one.

RHS does nothing but mess with the editor database. If there's a glitch, it's probably the RHS db, because RHS uses the same executable as stock; if RHS factors speed twice, it's only because the Matrix WiTP code factors speed twice

Do you really think it factors speed twice?? I would really like to know why you think so!! I've looked at the model (shhhh!!!!) and just can't find that anywhere. Please, oh please, gimme some "whys". If there is an answer, I'll get it to you. Ciao.

Dili
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RE: Which of the files contain aircraft?

Post by Dili »

El Cid told me that the MVR RHS formula factors speed, and from what i remember from discussion was one of most important factors to achieve the MVR value. Since we have already a Speed independently of MVR ergo we have speed factored twice in RHS for Air Combat calculation: one by the WITP itself in Speed value other included by RHS in MVR value.
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JWE
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RE: Which of the files contain aircraft?

Post by JWE »

ORIGINAL: Dili

El Cid told me that the MVR RHS formula factors speed, and from what i remember from discussion was one of most important factors to achieve the MVR value. Since we have already a Speed independently of MVR ergo we have speed factored twice in RHS for Air Combat calculation: one by the WITP itself in Speed value other included by RHS in MVR value.

I am very, very sorry, but unless there is a proprietary RHS.exe, there is no formula different from stock. The databases define the values; the executable determines how those values are used in the algorithm. Sidley is full of ...
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RE: Which of the files contain aircraft?

Post by witpqs »

ORIGINAL: Dili

El Cid told me that the MVR RHS formula factors speed, and from what i remember from discussion was one of most important factors to achieve the MVR value. Since we have already a Speed independently of MVR ergo we have speed factored twice in RHS for Air Combat calculation: one by the WITP itself in Speed value other included by RHS in MVR value.

I think it is factored in to reduce the maneuver rating - by analogy if you are going faster you cannot turn as tight. As far as I know it is not giving double advantage to faster aircraft.
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RE: Which of the files contain aircraft?

Post by JWE »

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: Dili

El Cid told me that the MVR RHS formula factors speed, and from what i remember from discussion was one of most important factors to achieve the MVR value. Since we have already a Speed independently of MVR ergo we have speed factored twice in RHS for Air Combat calculation: one by the WITP itself in Speed value other included by RHS in MVR value.

I think it is factored in to reduce the maneuver rating - by analogy if you are going faster you cannot turn as tight. As far as I know it is not giving double advantage to faster aircraft.
I am very, very, sorry, but there cannot be any different factoring, unless there is a proprietary RHS.exe file. All calculations are performed in the executable (.exe) file. There is no other way to achieve a formula different from stock, except by modifying the executable (.exe) file. The databases define the values; the executable determines how those values are used in the algorithm. RHS does not and cannot change the calculation equation; it is only capable of changing the database numbers which set the coefficients (i.e., multiply by 47 instead of 31, and divide by 23, instead of 34).
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RE: Which of the files contain aircraft?

Post by m10bob »

These are the principles of the calculations:

Plane: This describes the nomenclature of the particular plane, including it's nickname or common name

Weight (Empty/Loaded/Max): The weights of the plane when empty, when at typical combat weight, and maximum takeoff weight.

Wing Area: The area of the wings.

Wing Loading: For each of the planes weights, the wing loading is derived from dividing the weight by the wing area. It is broken into three numbers, the first being the empty plane wing loading, the second the typical combat weight, the third being maximum takeoff weight. Wing loading helps in instantaneous turns, and sustained turns. A low wing loading allows a higher g load on the plane at a particular speed.

Engine: Describes the horsepower of the engine (base, no WEP), the maker of the engine, and whether it is a radial or inline (liquid cooled) engine. Radial engines tend to take more battle damage before failing.

Flaps: The number of possible settings for the flaps

Visibility: My judgement of visibility conditions for front view, side view, and rear view. This field is only used if a plane has its own art, otherwise it refers to the plane whose art is used.

Control feel: My judgement of control feel for the plane's elevators, rudder and roll (ailerons) at slow speeds (near stall), near the sustained maximum speed of the plane, and above the maximum speed of the plane (fast).

Stall speed: 10 minutes worth of fuel loaded on the plane, the speed the stall horn start kicking in with/without flaps to maintain level flight.

Guns: Table containing the gun type, caliber, rate-of-fire(ROF), firing time (duration), Warbirds' ping "punch", muzzle velocity, and ammunition supply/gun, broken down by primary and secondary banks of weapons.

Ordnance: Breakdown of the ordnance loadouts for ordnance settings of 0-3

Fuel Time/Percent: Time that the engine ran at full power with 1% gas loaded

Power/Weight (Empty/Loaded/Max): The plane's weight divided by the base horsepower of the engine. A rough measure of a plane's acceleration and climbing ability, as well as diving ability to some degree. Lower is better.

Corner Velocity: The speed at which the screen starts to become visible again when pulling a maximum-g turn from 350mph. Somewhat useful for determining instantaneous turn rate. Very useful for TnB fights since this is the maximum speed at which you can turn minimum radius, while at the same time, the minimum speed at which you can pull max G. It is also the point at which your plane is capable of maximum turn rate along that radius, and this turn rate slows down to sustained turn rate levels as speed is bled off (usually quickly).

Durability: My judgement of the plane's ability to take gunfire before falling apart.

WEP time: Duration of WEP, if the plane has WEP

Plane's Maximum Angle-of-Attack (no flaps/full flaps): Plane's Angle-of-Attack determined by AoA study

Plane's wing effective Incidence Angle (no flaps/full flaps): Plane's wing effective incident angle to fuselage, determined by AoA study


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As I stated, I only re-worked the ROC and the ceilings, but the source book I referred to will allow all of the above to be calculated as the book contains detailed specs on weights and horsepower.
It just depends on how far you want to go.

This page shows the already worked up performance specs on some of the more popular WW2 aircraft, (to use as an example of how far in detail you might go:

http://www.rdrop.com/users/hoofj/index.html
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JWE
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RE: Which of the files contain aircraft?

Post by JWE »

ORIGINAL: Dili

The first thing to do is to try to understand how the Witp model work. I guess no one knows. I criticized RHS formula because i think(assuming WITP uses speed for air combat) it factors speed twice.

Well, what I'm trying to figure out is just how maneuver is calculated. Right now it's just a number, like 32. But why is it 32? Why not 73? So how does one arrive at 32? Maybe it's (speed/23 + wing loading in furlongs - paint color in nanometers) doubt it, but who really knows.

In that case, yes, speed would appear twice, somewhere, but the game engine wouldn't be using speed twice, it would be using this independently derived magic maneuver number '32'. It would be really, really nice to know how the maneuver number is calculated. It does not come from the game engine. It comes from the mind of the scenario designer. It's like a 75mm gun having an effect of 12; it's because a 75mm shell weighs 12 pounds. So how does one come up with a number for maneuver? It's a puzzlement.
el cid again
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RE: Which of the files contain aircraft?

Post by el cid again »

ORIGINAL: JWE
ORIGINAL: Dili

The first thing to do is to try to understand how the Witp model work. I guess no one knows. I criticized RHS formula because i think(assuming WITP uses speed for air combat) it factors speed twice.

Ain't that the truth Dili.

I've always wondered why the manual don't have the simple algorythmic version. It would save a lot of code analysis time for serious modders.

RHS does not change the code. If there is a formula change it will only be in a patch or a proprietary executable (.exe file). Believe me, I know about that one.

RHS does nothing but mess with the editor database. If there's a glitch, it's probably the RHS db, because RHS uses the same executable as stock; if RHS factors speed twice, it's only because the Matrix WiTP code factors speed twice

Do you really think it factors speed twice?? I would really like to know why you think so!! I've looked at the model (shhhh!!!!) and just can't find that anywhere. Please, oh please, gimme some "whys". If there is an answer, I'll get it to you. Ciao.



The code is not very simple - and it would not be easy to document at this stage. The code was originally done in a different era - and it probably was not intended to be supported by people other than who were writing it. In any case, it is now maintained by different people - and a number of people over time have changed this or that. Understanding what happens is not very easy. Quoting one of them "After about a year, I thought I had a pretty good idea how that routine worked. Then, last week, I found a line with a branch that totally changed my understanding."

It is certain speed is used more than once. Because speed is a component of maneuverability. A Matrix programmer suggested that maneuverability might be purely a function of speed - otherwise it is one of the major components of it. I found some justification for both possibilities in stock data: some maneuverability values are speed/10. Others are something like speed / 20 plus ROC / 500. Either way - speed is in maneuverability - and so it is used twice. It may or may not be a big problem - to say "I criticized RHS for putting speed in there twice" is somewhat beside the point - as the comments above indicate - it isn't RHS fault that is the system. But regardless of who made it that way, it also may not be wrong to be in there twice. I have done far more sophisticated models, and worked with many others of various levels of complexity - and NOT to consider speed more than once (counting indirect factors) is at least exceptional - if not wholly unknown. What matters is "does it work"??? Not "is speed in there twice." Whatever your intuition says - that is not necessairily a problem.
Dili
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RE: Which of the files contain aircraft?

Post by Dili »

witpqs i came from the discussion with contrary opinion. RHS MVR factors speed to improve/augment the value.
In that case, yes, speed would appear twice, somewhere, but the game engine wouldn't be using speed twice, it would be using this independently derived magic maneuver number '32'.

Okay  you undestood that my point hasnt any relation with Code or .exe. When i said twice i wanted to mean it was being factored 2 times in Air Combat due to RHS MVR formula+ game speed field. If we already have a separated speed field why MVR have speed too that was my point.  I cannot say how much weight MVR has so it's dificult to find a less imprecise word instead of twice.
Well, what I'm trying to figure out is just how maneuver is calculated. Right now it's just a number, like 32. But why is it 32? Why not 73? So how does one arrive at 32? Maybe it's (speed/23 + wing loading in furlongs - paint color in nanometers) doubt it, but who really knows. 

:) Yes, that is one of unknowns.

More sites:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/markw4/

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/
el cid again
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RE: Which of the files contain aircraft?

Post by el cid again »

ORIGINAL: Dili

El Cid told me that the MVR RHS formula factors speed, and from what i remember from discussion was one of most important factors to achieve the MVR value. Since we have already a Speed independently of MVR ergo we have speed factored twice in RHS for Air Combat calculation: one by the WITP itself in Speed value other included by RHS in MVR value.

Quite correct - except for the implication this might not be wholly valid. The speed is used in different routines than maneuverability is. For example, speed is surely used in determining if an intercept occurs between this plane and that one. Only if the routine says "yes" to that does maneuverability get used - to figure when/if firing position is achieved?
This might be perfectly done (probably not perfectly) - and it likely is adequately done - and there is no justification for assuming it must be badly done.
el cid again
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RE: Which of the files contain aircraft?

Post by el cid again »

ORIGINAL: JWE

ORIGINAL: Dili

El Cid told me that the MVR RHS formula factors speed, and from what i remember from discussion was one of most important factors to achieve the MVR value. Since we have already a Speed independently of MVR ergo we have speed factored twice in RHS for Air Combat calculation: one by the WITP itself in Speed value other included by RHS in MVR value.

I am very, very sorry, but unless there is a proprietary RHS.exe, there is no formula different from stock. The databases define the values; the executable determines how those values are used in the algorithm. Sidley is full of ...


What are you peddling? Who says a formula cannot be used to define values in a database? It appears a formula IS used to define maneuverability - even in stock. And changing the values in the data set has some significant impacts on what happens. That does not allege or require code changes. And as it is all we can do - other than RECOMMEND changes to code - which would cost money to implement - it is a perfectly sound way to proceed. If you don't like it - don't think about it - don't use it - and don't waste our time being critical in a non-constructive sense.
el cid again
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RE: Which of the files contain aircraft?

Post by el cid again »

ORIGINAL: JWE
ORIGINAL: Dili

The first thing to do is to try to understand how the Witp model work. I guess no one knows. I criticized RHS formula because i think(assuming WITP uses speed for air combat) it factors speed twice.

Well, what I'm trying to figure out is just how maneuver is calculated. Right now it's just a number, like 32. But why is it 32? Why not 73? So how does one arrive at 32? Maybe it's (speed/23 + wing loading in furlongs - paint color in nanometers) doubt it, but who really knows.

In that case, yes, speed would appear twice, somewhere, but the game engine wouldn't be using speed twice, it would be using this independently derived magic maneuver number '32'. It would be really, really nice to know how the maneuver number is calculated. It does not come from the game engine. It comes from the mind of the scenario designer. It's like a 75mm gun having an effect of 12; it's because a 75mm shell weighs 12 pounds. So how does one come up with a number for maneuver? It's a puzzlement.

You can reverse engineer it. Look at the data. Some values are perfect if you assume max speed / 10. Others are perfect for different assumptions. Find the algorithm you think is closest - and you have the answer - as close as can be done - for a somewhat inconsistent data set.

el cid again
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RE: Which of the files contain aircraft?

Post by el cid again »

ORIGINAL: m10bob

These are the principles of the calculations:

Plane: This describes the nomenclature of the particular plane, including it's nickname or common name

Weight (Empty/Loaded/Max): The weights of the plane when empty, when at typical combat weight, and maximum takeoff weight.

Wing Area: The area of the wings.

Wing Loading: For each of the planes weights, the wing loading is derived from dividing the weight by the wing area. It is broken into three numbers, the first being the empty plane wing loading, the second the typical combat weight, the third being maximum takeoff weight. Wing loading helps in instantaneous turns, and sustained turns. A low wing loading allows a higher g load on the plane at a particular speed.

Engine: Describes the horsepower of the engine (base, no WEP), the maker of the engine, and whether it is a radial or inline (liquid cooled) engine. Radial engines tend to take more battle damage before failing.

Flaps: The number of possible settings for the flaps

Visibility: My judgement of visibility conditions for front view, side view, and rear view. This field is only used if a plane has its own art, otherwise it refers to the plane whose art is used.

Control feel: My judgement of control feel for the plane's elevators, rudder and roll (ailerons) at slow speeds (near stall), near the sustained maximum speed of the plane, and above the maximum speed of the plane (fast).

Stall speed: 10 minutes worth of fuel loaded on the plane, the speed the stall horn start kicking in with/without flaps to maintain level flight.

Guns: Table containing the gun type, caliber, rate-of-fire(ROF), firing time (duration), Warbirds' ping "punch", muzzle velocity, and ammunition supply/gun, broken down by primary and secondary banks of weapons.

Ordnance: Breakdown of the ordnance loadouts for ordnance settings of 0-3

Fuel Time/Percent: Time that the engine ran at full power with 1% gas loaded

Power/Weight (Empty/Loaded/Max): The plane's weight divided by the base horsepower of the engine. A rough measure of a plane's acceleration and climbing ability, as well as diving ability to some degree. Lower is better.

Corner Velocity: The speed at which the screen starts to become visible again when pulling a maximum-g turn from 350mph. Somewhat useful for determining instantaneous turn rate. Very useful for TnB fights since this is the maximum speed at which you can turn minimum radius, while at the same time, the minimum speed at which you can pull max G. It is also the point at which your plane is capable of maximum turn rate along that radius, and this turn rate slows down to sustained turn rate levels as speed is bled off (usually quickly).

Durability: My judgement of the plane's ability to take gunfire before falling apart.

WEP time: Duration of WEP, if the plane has WEP

Plane's Maximum Angle-of-Attack (no flaps/full flaps): Plane's Angle-of-Attack determined by AoA study

Plane's wing effective Incidence Angle (no flaps/full flaps): Plane's wing effective incident angle to fuselage, determined by AoA study


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As I stated, I only re-worked the ROC and the ceilings, but the source book I referred to will allow all of the above to be calculated as the book contains detailed specs on weights and horsepower.
It just depends on how far you want to go.

This page shows the already worked up performance specs on some of the more popular WW2 aircraft, (to use as an example of how far in detail you might go:

http://www.rdrop.com/users/hoofj/index.html

Bob: Why use your JUDGEMENT about durability instead of a formula that uses hard data objectively? Joe and I made a long list of possible factors - and settled on a number we felt were important. Putting ALL the important factors in probably means your resultant is at least somewhat related to all of them.
Dili
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RE: Which of the files contain aircraft?

Post by Dili »

Quite correct - except for the implication this might not be wholly valid. The speed is used in different routines than maneuverability is. For example, speed is surely used in determining if an intercept occurs between this plane and that one. Only if the routine says "yes" to that does maneuverability get used - to figure when/if firing position is achieved?
This might be perfectly done (probably not perfectly) - and it likely is adequately done - and there is no justification for assuming it must be badly done.
 
If Speed field doesnt affect Air combat except probability of interception then you are right. Doubt it is only used for that.
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RE: Which of the files contain aircraft?

Post by m10bob »

ORIGINAL: el cid again

ORIGINAL: m10bob

These are the principles of the calculations:

Plane: This describes the nomenclature of the particular plane, including it's nickname or common name

Weight (Empty/Loaded/Max): The weights of the plane when empty, when at typical combat weight, and maximum takeoff weight.

Wing Area: The area of the wings.

Wing Loading: For each of the planes weights, the wing loading is derived from dividing the weight by the wing area. It is broken into three numbers, the first being the empty plane wing loading, the second the typical combat weight, the third being maximum takeoff weight. Wing loading helps in instantaneous turns, and sustained turns. A low wing loading allows a higher g load on the plane at a particular speed.

Engine: Describes the horsepower of the engine (base, no WEP), the maker of the engine, and whether it is a radial or inline (liquid cooled) engine. Radial engines tend to take more battle damage before failing.

Flaps: The number of possible settings for the flaps

Visibility: My judgement of visibility conditions for front view, side view, and rear view. This field is only used if a plane has its own art, otherwise it refers to the plane whose art is used.

Control feel: My judgement of control feel for the plane's elevators, rudder and roll (ailerons) at slow speeds (near stall), near the sustained maximum speed of the plane, and above the maximum speed of the plane (fast).

Stall speed: 10 minutes worth of fuel loaded on the plane, the speed the stall horn start kicking in with/without flaps to maintain level flight.

Guns: Table containing the gun type, caliber, rate-of-fire(ROF), firing time (duration), Warbirds' ping "punch", muzzle velocity, and ammunition supply/gun, broken down by primary and secondary banks of weapons.

Ordnance: Breakdown of the ordnance loadouts for ordnance settings of 0-3

Fuel Time/Percent: Time that the engine ran at full power with 1% gas loaded

Power/Weight (Empty/Loaded/Max): The plane's weight divided by the base horsepower of the engine. A rough measure of a plane's acceleration and climbing ability, as well as diving ability to some degree. Lower is better.

Corner Velocity: The speed at which the screen starts to become visible again when pulling a maximum-g turn from 350mph. Somewhat useful for determining instantaneous turn rate. Very useful for TnB fights since this is the maximum speed at which you can turn minimum radius, while at the same time, the minimum speed at which you can pull max G. It is also the point at which your plane is capable of maximum turn rate along that radius, and this turn rate slows down to sustained turn rate levels as speed is bled off (usually quickly).

Durability: My judgement of the plane's ability to take gunfire before falling apart.

WEP time: Duration of WEP, if the plane has WEP

Plane's Maximum Angle-of-Attack (no flaps/full flaps): Plane's Angle-of-Attack determined by AoA study

Plane's wing effective Incidence Angle (no flaps/full flaps): Plane's wing effective incident angle to fuselage, determined by AoA study


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As I stated, I only re-worked the ROC and the ceilings, but the source book I referred to will allow all of the above to be calculated as the book contains detailed specs on weights and horsepower.
It just depends on how far you want to go.

This page shows the already worked up performance specs on some of the more popular WW2 aircraft, (to use as an example of how far in detail you might go:

http://www.rdrop.com/users/hoofj/index.html

Bob: Why use your JUDGEMENT about durability instead of a formula that uses hard data objectively? Joe and I made a long list of possible factors - and settled on a number we felt were important. Putting ALL the important factors in probably means your resultant is at least somewhat related to all of them.


You are quite correct, *I* do not use a personal judgement. I was quoting from that site I have referred to 3 times in this very same thread as it gives *a* formula.

Personally I calculate durability as being a combination of a planes' weight and size, (which works out quite well, therefore a P 47 with loads of armor has better durability than a Hayabusa.)

As for giving planes a numeric maneuverability value, (as in the present game), of course it can be done, and of course it can be calculated, in a uniform way to affect how all planes interact with each other.
For instance, the Japanese "NIck" should really have a value closer to 20-22, than what it has, (the fighter version anyway).

It has been said the vanilla maneuver ratings are a combination of speed, ROC, turning, God knows what all, but if so, all of this fruit salad was not necessary to arrive at the "magic number", since ROC and speed are already calculated seperately.
IF (IF) the computer is able to read things seperately (like speed vs maneuver), then there is no reason to mix all quantities into the same pile.
I never felt that maneuver # was a mix of more than turn time vs speed loss calculated (as it should be).

Mixing speed with turns is forgetting that a P 38 at 400 MPH makes a 180 degree turn in 10 miles, while an A6m2 at 100 MPH does it in 1 mile,(approx.)

I prefer to think the program is smart enough to read a planes values seperately and know that a plane with speed has a different quality than a plane with great turn ability.
The computer does not read turning as a "better" quality, but a "different" quality.
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JWE
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RE: Which of the files contain aircraft?

Post by JWE »

ORIGINAL: Dili
Well, what I'm trying to figure out is just how maneuver is calculated. Right now it's just a number, like 32. But why is it 32? Why not 73? So how does one arrive at 32? Maybe it's (speed/23 + wing loading in furlongs - paint color in nanometers) doubt it, but who really knows. 

:) Yes, that is one of unknowns.

More sites:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/markw4/

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/

Good sites, nice stuff. Thanks.

Think we're creeping up on it. So far, I think I have the main parameters; wing loading, power loading, lift coefficient, roll rate, and speed. Inversely proportional to wing loading, directly proportional to the others. Power loading should take care of acceleration, incidence angles, such like; lift coefficient should cover stall.

Now the fun part, proportionality functions and coefficients. Too bad that the war-2 curves aren't in digital data form; would make curve fitting easier, and taking the integral a snap. Oh well ..
Dili
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RE: Which of the files contain aircraft?

Post by Dili »

It has been said the vanilla maneuver ratings are a combination of speed, ROC, turning, God knows what all, but if so, all of this fruit salad was not necessary to arrive at the "magic number", since ROC and speed are already calculated seperately.
 
My point entirely. It can only be taken down if ROC and Speed have a much more restricted propose and dont affect air combat. We need to know that.
 
Think we're creeping up on it.
 
JWE if we dont know how air combat model works in witp the end result can be  gigantic, wonderful and wrong.
 
El Cid since you seems to have contacts in Matrix what about you bug them concerning air combat model?
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