Unit size for senario creation

Advanced Tactics is a versatile turn-based strategy system that gives gamers the chance to wage almost any battle in any time period. The initial release focuses on World War II and includes a number of historical scenarios as well as a full editor! This forum supports both the original Advanced Tactics and the new and improved Advanced Tactics: Gold Edition.

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TPM
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RE: Unit size for senario creation

Post by TPM »

ORIGINAL: Max 86

Here is my formula for division level games. The intent is to have all the major elements of a division in suitable numbers to best reflect partial casualties in a particular combat without losing all of the division's capabilities. Also, I have put aside the one for one comparison and have tried different multipliers for different unit types.

Inf Btns: multiply # of Btns by 10 (Inf Div with 3 INf Reg/6 yields 60 infantry. Out of that 60, 40 Rfl, 10 SMG, last 10 between mtrs, bazookas, IGs and MGs, player discretion according to mission.)

Eng Bn X 10 also. So one Eng Btn in the division = 10 Engs

Divisions usually had Rcn, Arty, AT, Flak Btns. For these battalions multiply by 2 or 3 ( I haven't decided yet). So each division with a Rcn Btn will have 2-3 Scouts or Scout Cars. Same for the other elements.

Transportation I try to keep simple; Mechanized Divs have halftrack/truck mix, Motorized Divs have trucks only and non-motor/mech (groundpounders) use 3:1 horses to truck ratio. Unless the scenario calls for a lack of transport, supply enough of the correct transport for the entire division.

Tanks represent a different animal entirely, initially I thouught 1 tank per tank company in the division but that would lead to as many as 16 tank units for a 2-Tank-Regiment division which is way overpowered for this game. So, try using one tank per tank type per regiment. Confused yet?

An early '42 German Pzr div might consist of 1 Pzr regiment with a PzII company, 2 PZIII companies and a PzIV company (Based on the Campaign Series model for sake of discussion). This means that this division would receive 1 Lt tank and 3 Med Tanks with the PZIV classified as a medium. I am planning to allow both Med Tk 1 and Med Tk 2 to be produced simultaneously (if possible) to represent the PZIII and PZIV medium classes.

A 2-regiment tank division based on the model above would have 2 Lt tanks and 6 mediums.

To summarize;

Inf Div with 3 Inf regiments and Rcn, Arty, AT, Flak Btns would consist of:

40 Rfl, 10 SMG, 3Mtr, 3MGs, 2IGs, 2 Bazookas
10 Engs
2-3 Arty
2-3 Scouts
2-3 AT guns
2-3 Flaks

Tank Div with 2 Tk Regiments and Rcn, Arty, AT, Flak Btns would consist of:
2 Light tanks and 6 Medium tanks
10 Engs
2-3 Arty
2-3 Scouts
2-3 AT guns
2-3 Flaks

Again, the idea is to be able to send these divisions into combat and sustain a few losses without necessarily losing divisional capabilities like Rcn, Arty and so forth; but prolonged combat will still grind them up into a shell of their former selves.

The Hv tank Btns is another situation completely because the heavy tanks are so powerful in this game. I use 2 Heavys, 1 light and a 2 scout cars.  Only 5 units but they pack quite a punch and if losses do occur, it will not necessarily be the heavys that are lost.  I may remove the scouts and add light tanks because I am not sure if these Hvy Btns carried a scout company or not. Must research!

This is not set in stone but just a template to go by. Still use historical data to flesh them out. For example, I don't think Russian tank divisions had any mobile arty so do not inclued Arty in the Soviet tank divisions.  Some divisions did not have Rcn cars so use foot scouts instead. stuff like that.

I know this must be a great game because I have started a notebook for keeping track of things! [:D]


Max, this is great...a really good starting point to nailing this stuff down. I would also agree with the other poster that you should add infantry to the Tank divisions...I'm pretty sure German WWII tank divisions had 1 or 2 infantry regiments in there. Thanks for the work Max, I'm going to use this!
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Max 86
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RE: Unit size for senario creation

Post by Max 86 »

Thanks for the kind words. I meant to include the infantry but overlooked it. Just multiply Inf Btns by 10 for the Tank divs as well.
 
This seems to work pretty well but I still can't figure out where the hex stacking limitations are listed or how you know if a hex is overcrowded. I have only played random games and have units with 800+ strength but did not see a penalty anywhere.
No problem Chief!
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Redmarkus5
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RE: Unit size for senario creation

Post by Redmarkus5 »

I'm a little wary about using the numbers alone to determine unit combat power. Experience, Readiness and Morale are perhaps even more important and it's great that they're modelled and editable in the game. However, it seems that units gain readiness points very quickly - is there a way to edit this so that the effects of shock/surprise last longer?
WitE2 tester, WitW, WitP, CMMO, CM2, GTOS, GTMF, WP & WPP, TOAW4, BA2
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Vic
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RE: Unit size for senario creation

Post by Vic »

this is a double post. but i want everybody to see my advice on doing more groggy / historical divisional - corps level games:
 
Just some advice from me, since i tried a lot of things before releasing AT.

If you want more groggy OOBS and units my advice is:

1. Make a new sftype set in which you assume scouts, mg's, guns, artillery, horses, mortars, etc.. are included in:
-Wehrmacht Regiment
-SS Regiment
-Volkssturm Regiment

2. I repeat do not try to put 8 different subformations of the current set in each division. its hell to play.

3. Make country specific tanks and aircraft with their own historical names.

4. dont use horses, but keep trucks and halftracks so you can chose if you want to mobilize a division or not.

5. Add 2 new roadtypes: "rail" and "road+rail", make a trainsftype to be used by HQs to do transfers and str. transfers, diminish trucks capacity so rail becomes neccesary. Activate the 3th transfer mode rulevar so players can choose to use landcap, seacap or traincap.

6. Optionally make supply to hexes further away from rail and roads go bad earlier.

7. Optionally add auxillary (indepedent) Artillery and AA Regiments. (horse movement standard)

8. Add different people/peoplegroups for like Finish, SS, German, Bulgarians, Rumaninans and give them different morale scores and combat modifiers.

9. Do two layered HQ systems. With OKW - Army - Unit or OKW- Corps -Unit or Stavka- Front - Unit.

just some ideas from the designer here :) i never got around to making this sort of scenarios though.

kind regards,
vic

Visit www.vrdesigns.net for the latest news, polls, screenshots and blogs on Shadow Empire, Decisive Campaigns and Advanced Tactics
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kevinkins
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RE: Unit size for senario creation

Post by kevinkins »

Can standard OOBs be saved and shared?
 
Kevin
“The study of history lies at the foundation of all sound military conclusions and practice.”
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Captain Cruft
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RE: Unit size for senario creation

Post by Captain Cruft »

ORIGINAL: kevinkin

Can standard OOBs be saved and shared?

Kevin

Yes that's what a Masterfile is. Or to be exact the OOB is part of a Masterfile.
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