A pathetic request for help

[Erik Rutins]

Have you tried calling down mortar fire on it yet?

[Grotius]

Yeah, I guess I'll that next. In my most recent effort, I got all 3 squads to the church unharmed -- although it appears only two can "mount" the church at the same time. When one squad died, the third mounted to take its place. I killed a couple of units outside the church, and then I spent three turns focusing small-arms fire on the AT gun. I damaged it but never killed the crew, and the victory location didn't flip! Grrr! Marginal Loss again.

I did think about using one of those final turns to call in arty fire, but I thought I'd have better luck just shooting at the AT gun. After all, it's sitting in the open, under no cover at all. Next time, arty. Assuming my radio is working.

One thing I like about this game is that I can sneak in a battle at lunch. Unfortunately, then I have to go back to work. So, tonight.

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: Grotius
I did think about using one of those final turns to call in arty fire, but I thought I'd have better luck just shooting at the AT gun. After all, it's sitting in the open, under no cover at all. Next time, arty. Assuming my radio is working.

Note that your squads will still fire on their own at nearby targets while under Spot Indirect Fire orders, so you can do both! [8D]

[PDiFolco]

Really I didn't enjoy much the 2 first missions, and gave up Boot camp after them. In fact imho they try to force *bad* tactics, not a learning method I like. Problem is that other, more realistic, tactics than the one imposed don't necessarily work.

Mission 1 : didn't succeed in 3 tries (even on easy) to slalom between smoke clouds and lost. Then I adopted a realistic approach, stayed in the wood ridge, moving 50m right to limit enemy fire zones, and waited to spot enemies. Then for 8 turns we engaged all sov squads in sight, I used the mortars to lay down suppressive fire, and on turn 11-12 when sovs where nearly all dead, I rushed to the church under smoke grenades cover. And I won at last, without using "pray for the smoke" advocated tactics [:'(] !!

Mission 2 : putting the observer in the church as recommended is so obvious it should be avoided !! It's open to fire from everywhere, any half-brained enemy would bury it in fire...Plus arty strikes on moving trucks isn't exactly effective.
So I chose to retreat the HQ squad to the woods at the bridge entrance, and the other on both sides at the bridge "exit", to form a defensive close "ring" around the bridge. This should have been much more effective, with me commanding the engagement and using limited LOS terrain to counter enemy superiority.
But eventually it didn't work due to a bug, and some features, all highly debatable : my arty was *always* unavailable (grayed out), with no explanation, my troops that should be hidden in woods are visible from 100m+ by moving infantry, and trucks are able to travel in woods.. Frankly that's a bit too much oddities , I quit [:@]
Fortunately the other battles/campaigns  seems better, and the scenario editors will make good scens once I'll have solved those pesky script errors [8|]

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: PDiFolco
Mission 1 : didn't succeed in 3 tries (even on easy) to slalom between smoke clouds and lost. Then I adopted a realistic approach, stayed in the wood ridge, moving 50m right to limit enemy fire zones, and waited to spot enemies. Then for 8 turns we engaged all sov squads in sight, I used the mortars to lay down suppressive fire, and on turn 11-12 when sovs where nearly all dead, I rushed to the church under smoke grenades cover. And I won at last, without using "pray for the smoke" advocated tactics [:'(] !!

That's absolutely fine. The goal of that mission is to teach the use of smoke, but there is always more than one way to win a mission.

Mission 2 : putting the observer in the church as recommended is so obvious it should be avoided !! It's open to fire from everywhere, any half-brained enemy would bury it in fire...Plus arty strikes on moving trucks isn't exactly effective.
So I chose to retreat the HQ squad to the woods at the bridge entrance, and the other on both sides at the bridge "exit", to form a defensive close "ring" around the bridge. This should have been much more effective, with me commanding the engagement and using limited LOS terrain to counter enemy superiority.

The main reason for suggesting the church is that it does provide cover and good line of sight, but you're right, your method could have worked as well.

But eventually it didn't work due to a bug, and some features, all highly debatable : my arty was *always* unavailable (grayed out), with no explanation, my troops that should be hidden in woods are visible from 100m+ by moving infantry, and trucks are able to travel in woods.. Frankly that's a bit too much oddities , I quit [:@]

I have never had my artillery be unavailable for that entire scenario. It's a 50% chance each turn to be in contact. Did you perhaps run into the issue where you need to click off your HQ unit and back on to reset the orders menu?

Moving infantry will usually not spot infantry in cover from far away, but 100m is not _that_ far away. How deep in he woods were your infantry?

Fortunately the other battles/campaigns  seems better, and the scenario editors will make good scens once I'll have solved those pesky script errors [8|]

Sorry to hear that Boot Camp did not work out well for you. I'm glad you are enjoying the other scenarios though and I know Stridor is working with you to help resolve those script errors, so hopefully that will be solved very soon.

Regards,

- Erik




[/quote]

[PDiFolco]

Thanks Eric,
So the radio contact to arty is just 50% per turn random ? Bleh, I already found arty not much cost-effective, but now it's worse !! Maybe a higher contact % (at least for early war germans) and a arty cost reduction would be in order...
As for my wood placement, I was some meters inside it, but anyway the Russians that spotted were *also* in the wood, so it doesn't matter. Really I suppose that you can't see a defending, "hidden" squad in woods from any farther than 50 m, and even then.
And about the wood-strolling trucks, is that really "normal" ?? [X(]

Stridor is indeed working hard on my issues, that's a thing to acknowledge and thank the Matrix/Koios crew for [&o]

[TheOx]

I won the first mission, no problem. Laid down the smoke, rushed the church and bayoneted the Soviets inside. Perfekte. Went on the 2nd Mission. Squad anniilated in church tower. Way too obvious, altough, I was surprised when they opened fire. I was thinking they would lay low. Is there a "Hold Fire" command? Ok, so I went back to Main Menu to retart the 2nd mission only to find it sends you back to Mission 1! NOOOOO! I had thought it might save your progress, how do I get back to Mission 2? 

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: PDiFolco
So the radio contact to arty is just 50% per turn random ? Bleh, I already found arty not much cost-effective, but now it's worse !! Maybe a higher contact % (at least for early war germans) and a arty cost reduction would be in order...

I'd like to hear some other opinions on that before I'd change it, but I will keep an eye on it. My own testing has shown it to be pretty effective and that scenario _usually_ helps show that off.

As for my wood placement, I was some meters inside it, but anyway the Russians that spotted were *also* in the wood, so it doesn't matter. Really I suppose that you can't see a defending, "hidden" squad in woods from any farther than 50 m, and even then.

Based on that description, I agree. I don't suppose you have a save so that I could double-check the LOS? If there is any kind of issue, it's almost impossible to find it without duplicating the exact situation.

Doing the base calculatons, infantry start with 40 sighting factors. Trying to spot other infantry reduces that to 25 and infantry in woods have a -10 "per hit" which means in effect per tree in the way, with a -10 _minimum_ even if the LOS ray hits no trees at all. That means even if they had a completely clear LOS to you with no trees in the way, the fact that you were in woods would have meant they'd spot you at 95 meters, so on the surface 100+ meters seems like it should be impossible. If their LOS ray passed through just two trees, that would knock the sighting distance down to 46 meters.

And about the wood-strolling trucks, is that really "normal" ?? [X(]

Wheeled vehicles have a 75% speed reduction in Woods and cannot move through Heavy Woods at all. I'm surprised they thought that was a good path unless they had no other choice, but they should have been moving very slowly at least.

Regards,

- Erik

[TheOx]

Erik, see my post above, how can I get back to Mission 2?

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: TheOx
I won the first mission, no problem. Laid down the smoke, rushed the church and bayoneted the Soviets inside. Perfekte. Went on the 2nd Mission. Squad anniilated in church tower. Way too obvious, altough, I was surprised when they opened fire. I was thinking they would lay low. Is there a "Hold Fire" command? Ok, so I went back to Main Menu to retart the 2nd mission only to find it sends you back to Mission 1! NOOOOO! I had thought it might save your progress, how do I get back to Mission 2? 

Yes, Defend -> Hold Fire is what you want to set so that units won't take "opportunity shots". If you're in the campaign and lost the mission, it should bring you back to the briefing for the lost mission so that you can try it again, no need to exit to the main menu. Since you did that though, you should still have an autosave that you can continue from if youLoad Game.

[TheOx]

Thanks Erik, will do. Great fun so far!

[Capitaine]

nm

[rickier65]

Finally managed a Decisive victory on the first BootCamp mission. But it was on my laptop. Is there a way to move that victory over to my desktop?

Actually, I should probably just do it over hre anyway. Doing something once doesn't really mean much - But for future reference, is it easy, or even possible to start a campaign on one machine then move to a different one in middle say after one or two missions? Thinking about being on road and all.

Oh, my tactic for the win --

I first ordered platoon to advance to wook line. Got caught by surprise and squad on right flank took casualties and suppressed as soon as he started to move. The fire came from sniper team in church tower (I dont think he was there last time I played though maybe I just never saw him shoot).

I almost stopped there but decided to forge ahead. Laid down a smoke in front of building to right of the church. put my left squad on engage hold and advanced center squad toward church.

The center squad took fire and also suffered casualties. But the smoke started drifting and helped to obsucre LOS (it was still there but must have gotten decreased. because the center squad rallied.

I then orderd the platoon to rush the church, but then changed the rush order for the left squad (which was still holding in tree line) to just rush like 1 meter, so it would stop and go into defence while other two squads rushed the church.

Command squad (center squad) reached it first. I had it enter the church and it started targeting the Zis. as soon as the mortar cooled down I redirected fire to the building to the NW that were pouring fire down on my third squad still in the treeline.

I was not able to get my second squad to enter the church for about 2 turns, not sure what the problem was.

After HE mortar fire stsred coming down onto northern building i engaged --> moved my third squad from the tree line twoazrd the church. They got about 50 meters and were wiped out!

But I had two partial squadsin the Church now. the second squad engaged snipers that were advancing while the command squad engaged the zis. I dmaged the Zis and then knocked it out. during theat same phase the command squad quickly shifted its fire to suppress another Russian team advancing on the church.

I shifted the mortar fire to hit some Russians advnacing in the open Two sniper teams and the zis out of action now.

and then the game ends with Major Vict. I was surprised. Unfortunately, the after action didn't show my thrid squad being recovered - so I might be in trouble next battle.

Thanks!

Rick

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: Rick
Finally managed a Decisive victory on the first BootCamp mission. But it was on my laptop. Is there a way to move that victory over to my desktop?

Sure, just save the game and move the save file over. It should be in the /Save folder.

Actually, I should probably just do it over hre anyway. Doing something once doesn't really mean much - But for future reference, is it easy, or even possible to start a campaign on one machine then move to a different one in middle say after one or two missions? Thinking about being on road and all.

Yep, save files are totally portable as long as you have the same scenario/campaign files on both systems too.

But I had two partial squadsin the Church now. the second squad engaged snipers that were advancing while the command squad engaged the zis. I dmaged the Zis and then knocked it out. during theat same phase the command squad quickly shifted its fire to suppress another Russian team advancing on the church.
I shifted the mortar fire to hit some Russians advnacing in the open Two sniper teams and the zis out of action now.
and then the game ends with Major Vict. I was surprised. Unfortunately, the after action didn't show my thrid squad being recovered - so I might be in trouble next battle.

Excellent work, congratulations. [8D]

[Grotius]

I finally won the first boot camp mission -- my guys took out the AT gun immediately this time. And I went ahead and won missions 2 and 3 too. In each mission, though, I've been getting a bug. I don't get a full order of battle. For example, I got no vehicles in either mission 3 or 4, but the description of each seems to imply vehicles. Interestingly, I won mission 3 on the first try without vehicles anyway.

Incidentally, I also saw this when I tried to replay mission 1; I'd get one or two squads instead of three. I'm playing on 'normal', not hard.

Anyway, mission 4 seems to require tanks, and I have none, so I went off and started the road-to-Moscow campaign instead. Great fun! And I learned the hard way that "overrunning" infantry with tanks isn't always a great idea. Tanks need infantry support, don't they. *bonks self*

[Stridor]

ORIGINAL: Grotius

I finally won the first boot camp mission -- my guys took out the AT gun immediately this time. And I went ahead and won missions 2 and 3 too. In each mission, though, I've been getting a bug. I don't get a full order of battle. For example, I got no vehicles in either mission 3 or 4, but the description of each seems to imply vehicles. Interestingly, I won mission 3 on the first try without vehicles anyway.

Incidentally, I also saw this when I tried to replay mission 1; I'd get one or two squads instead of three. I'm playing on 'normal', not hard.

Anyway, mission 4 seems to require tanks, and I have none, so I went off and started the road-to-Moscow campaign instead. Great fun! And I learned the hard way that "overrunning" infantry with tanks isn't always a great idea. Tanks need infantry support, don't they. *bonks self*

Ummm, you don't get tanks in BC #4. It is a lesson in close assault. Something I think the AI just taught you [;)]

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: Grotius
I finally won the first boot camp mission -- my guys took out the AT gun immediately this time. And I went ahead and won missions 2 and 3 too. In each mission, though, I've been getting a bug. I don't get a full order of battle. For example, I got no vehicles in either mission 3 or 4, but the description of each seems to imply vehicles. Interestingly, I won mission 3 on the first try without vehicles anyway.

I'll check this, but I don't think you were actually missing units.

Incidentally, I also saw this when I tried to replay mission 1; I'd get one or two squads instead of three. I'm playing on 'normal', not hard.

If you took losses they would be tracked, but if enough points were given you can click on the unit in the purchase screen and then click the "Replace Losses" button to bring it back up to strength.

Anyway, mission 4 seems to require tanks, and I have none, so I went off and started the road-to-Moscow campaign instead. Great fun! And I learned the hard way that "overrunning" infantry with tanks isn't always a great idea. Tanks need infantry support, don't they. *bonks self*

Glad you're having fun in any case!

[TheOx]

ORIGINAL: Stridor

ORIGINAL: Grotius

I finally won the first boot camp mission -- my guys took out the AT gun immediately this time. And I went ahead and won missions 2 and 3 too. In each mission, though, I've been getting a bug. I don't get a full order of battle. For example, I got no vehicles in either mission 3 or 4, but the description of each seems to imply vehicles. Interestingly, I won mission 3 on the first try without vehicles anyway.

Incidentally, I also saw this when I tried to replay mission 1; I'd get one or two squads instead of three. I'm playing on 'normal', not hard.

Anyway, mission 4 seems to require tanks, and I have none, so I went off and started the road-to-Moscow campaign instead. Great fun! And I learned the hard way that "overrunning" infantry with tanks isn't always a great idea. Tanks need infantry support, don't they. *bonks self*

Ummm, you don't get tanks in BC #4. It is a lesson in close assault. Something I think the AI just taught you [;)]

This was a GREAT mission! I got those 2 T34s stopped on the road while they attacked one platoon, while I "zerg rushed" the tanks with the other platoons. Minimal losses with two dead Soviet tanks. Perfekte. Watching my troops make a beeline for the tanks was a little harrowing!

[Grotius]

Oh, OK! Back to boot camp, then.

It is a lesson in close assault. Something I think the AI just taught you

LoL, in a big way! I was getting all cocky, roaming over the map, and got lazy about engaging that lone infantry unit in front of my big mean tanks out in the open. KABOOM!

Erik: So I was supposed to have only infantry in boot camp 3 -- the one in which there is apparently a minefield? I had no vehicles in that one, on "normal". Also, when I was repeatedly playing boot camp 1, if I lost, clicked "continue," and immediately tried to re-run the scenario at "Normal," I had only one or two squads. To fix it, I had to exit to main menu and reload the scenario. Not a big deal. Or maybe it's working as designed?

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: Grotius
Erik: So I was supposed to have only infantry in boot camp 3 -- the one in which there is apparently a minefield? I had no vehicles in that one, on "normal".

Hm, no as I recall that one is supposed to have some vehicles. They weren't available on the unit purchase screen either?

Also, when I was repeatedly playing boot camp 1, if I lost, clicked "continue," and immediately tried to re-run the scenario at "Normal," I had only one or two squads. To fix it, I had to exit to main menu and reload the scenario. Not a big deal. Or maybe it's working as designed?

No - there's a "replace losses" option. When you're at the purchase units screen if you click on a depleted platoon you should see a red "replace losses" button show up in the top right, if you have enough points to replace the losses (which you should). The only downside to this is that it comes with a potential loss of experience.