Battle of the Bulge book?

[Rebel Yell]

ORIGINAL: Llyranor

Is this book any good? "Kampfgruppe Peiper at the Battle of the Bulge"
http://www.amazon.com/Kampfgruppe-Peipe ... roduct_top

Yes, its good, imho. Pretty much any of the Stackpole series books are.

[simovitch]

ORIGINAL: Llyranor

ORIGINAL: sterckxe

ORIGINAL: Deerslayer
and both MacDonald's Bulge books are great.

I concur.

Currently enjoying a book dealing with the "other side of the hill" entitled "Victory was Beyond their Grasp" by Nash, which tells the story of the 272nd Volksgrenadier division which took part in the Bulge (Kesternich). The book has a lot of low-level organizational & combat details at the company level and above. If you want to know how the "train" of a German VG company was organized, or how far away from the observation outposts the mortars were positioned, this is the book for you.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

That sounds like a good book. What is Hurtgen Forest's relevance to the Bulge in general?

Besides the proximity to each other, not much. The Hurtgen battles wound down about a month before the Ardennes Offensive. Some of the Units like the 28th division that fought in the Hurtgen were moved to the Ardennes to refit only to be hit again, in some cases by the same German units (28th Inf vs 116th Pz).

[SlickWilhelm]

ORIGINAL: Llyranor

Okay, I think I'll order A Time for Trumpets and Parker's Battle of the Bulge.

Thanks everyone.

Llyranor, I would also put John Toland's "Battle: the Story of the Bulge" on your list. That author's skill at telling the human side of war is unparalleled. I can't recommend it strongly enough.

[Tzar007]

ORIGINAL: Llyranor

Is this book any good? "Kampfgruppe Peiper at the Battle of the Bulge"
http://www.amazon.com/Kampfgruppe-Peipe ... roduct_top

I know that question was asked a while ago, but let me say I just finished reading it and I really like it. It's a short book, it can be read in a weekend sitting although if you have young children as I have, it might take 3 weekends sittings but that's another issue [:)]

Positive of this book:

1) The book weaves very nicely first-person accounts taken out from interviews or excerpts of actual records of the German and U.S. forces, with academic text providing the big picture at every step of the way of Kampgruppe Peiper.

2) I am a military reader who likes books with LOTS of CLEAR and DETAILED maps. I can't stand 300-pages military books with only one cheap basic map, it's just impossible to follow the operations without graphics depiction with arrows and unit icons. Well, this book offers multiple maps every chapter, and they are accurately done. Never was I lost when the text was referring to some village or unit, I always found it on one of these maps.

3) The pictures in the book are nice, but what's nicer is that there are pictures of "what it looked like in Dec. 1944" and "what it looks like now (in 2005)". There is also a quick chapter on a battlefield road tour that explain to you where to go and stop if you want to follow the exact same route as Peiper did almost 65 years ago now.

Negatives:

No real negatives, apart from the fact that it's a bit too short! I would have liked more, especially about what happens after KG Peiper infiltrates back to the German lines. I had the impression these moments are a bit too bland and short.

[Llyranor]

Well, so far I'm nearing the end of A Time for Trumpets. It has been a fabulous read. As people have stated, it does a really good job catching the human atmosphere. Thanks for the recommendation in this thread! Focuses mainly on the American side, though. I really like the maps, too. Whenever something is mentioned in the text, I can usually find it easily enough on one of the maps.

I'm a little into Danny Parker's The Battle of the Bulge. I'm a bit ambivalent about it. On one hand, the writing is fine, and the focus on the bigger picture is appreciated. The maps showing the whole front and the ebb and flow of the battle every 2 days are pretty nice (the fact that my paperback has dec 17-18 printed twice, one of which was supposed to be 19-20 - of which I have no map of - is really annoying). However, there is discrepancy between the narrative and the map details. I'm just reading on the first day of the battle, and the author highlights the movements of the various German armies. Unfortunately, it is unwieldy to keep track of what's going on, because half the villages' names the author mentions cannot be located on any of the available maps, not even in the most detailed situation map at the end of the book. I keep looking back and forth between the text and the map, only to find very little correlation between them. I will either need to find a more detailed global map, or simply ignore the village names (which would destroy the immersion of the narrative, so this isn't a good option).

.... Unless this is a problem with the paperback only? Does the hardcover book have better maps?

Are there any other good books that cover the big picture? Good detailed maps are a must.

ORIGINAL:  RayWolfe

The definitive work must be Hitlers Last Gamble by T N Dupuy. A little academic but very thorough.
Cheers
Ray

What about this one? From what Amazon reviews seem to point out, it may be dry, but it's very detailed and has extensive maps.

Other books I have but haven't read yet are Hugh Cole's US Official History, and the Then and Now book (which Danny Parker recommends for the German perspective).

[Tzar007]

ORIGINAL: Llyranor

I'm a little into Danny Parker's The Battle of the Bulge. I'm a bit ambivalent about it. On one hand, the writing is fine, and the focus on the bigger picture is appreciated. The maps showing the whole front and the ebb and flow of the battle every 2 days are pretty nice (the fact that my paperback has dec 17-18 printed twice, one of which was supposed to be 19-20 - of which I have no map of - is really annoying). However, there is discrepancy between the narrative and the map details. I'm just reading on the first day of the battle, and the author highlights the movements of the various German armies. Unfortunately, it is unwieldy to keep track of what's going on, because half the villages' names the author mentions cannot be located on any of the available maps, not even in the most detailed situation map at the end of the book. I keep looking back and forth between the text and the map, only to find very little correlation between them. I will either need to find a more detailed global map, or simply ignore the village names (which would destroy the immersion of the narrative, so this isn't a good option).

.... Unless this is a problem with the paperback only? Does the hardcover book have better maps?

I have the paperback 1991 edition and it has that same duplication of maps for Dec. 17-18 [:(]

It still a very fine book though.

ORIGINAL:  RayWolfe

The definitive work must be Hitlers Last Gamble by T N Dupuy. A little academic but very thorough.
Cheers
Ray

What about this one? From what Amazon reviews seem to point out, it may be dry, but it's very detailed and has extensive maps.

Oh yes ! I have this one too. Very, very dense book. Lots of tactical information, details about movements of units, operations, etc. Quite good maps also. Probably the book with the most detailed tactical information readily available.

However, beause it covers a lot of nitty-gritty details, it is a much more drier read than Danny Parker's book or Time of Trumpets. Reads almost like an operations plan at times. For a beginner with no previous knowledge of the Battle of the Bulge, this book would be far too much to handle, but I highly recommended it if you are a Battle of the Bulge buff interested in tactical details of the various engagements.

By the way, nice to speak to a fellow Montrealer (actually, I am cheating a bit since I am living in St-Hubert on the South Shore [:D] )

[Llyranor]

ORIGINAL: Tzar007

I have the paperback 1991 edition and it has that same duplication of maps for Dec. 17-18 [:(]

It still a very fine book though.

Yeah, it's a fine book. The extra tidbits are appreciated. I just don't like the lack of correlation between the narrative and the maps - it's just harder to get into it when village names get mentioned but I can't locate them in any of the maps (and I'm reading the book during public transportation, so carrying other reference material can be unwieldy.

ORIGINAL: Tzar007
Oh yes ! I have this one too. Very, very dense book. Lots of tactical information, details about movements of units, operations, etc. Quite good maps also. Probably the book with the most detailed tactical information readily available.

However, beause it covers a lot of nitty-gritty details, it is a much more drier read than Danny Parker's book or Time of Trumpets. Reads almost like an operations plan at times. For a beginner with no previous knowledge of the Battle of the Bulge, this book would be far too much to handle, but I highly recommended it if you are a Battle of the Bulge buff interested in tactical details of the various engagements.

Time for Trumpets has given me a good general sense of the Bulge, and I'm definitely keen on reading up on further details. How does it compare to Hugh Cole's Official US History re: tactical info/detail, and re: the big picture? (though I imagine the Official US History would focus more on the US side, and Danny Parker mentions it errs on some of the German info, for which I've gotten the Then and Now - which Parker also recommends for the German perspective).

If it's *the* most detailed tactical info available, I suppose it'll be worth taking a glance at anyway.

ORIGINAL: Tzar007
By the way, nice to speak to a fellow Montrealer (actually, I am cheating a bit since I am living in St-Hubert on the South Shore [:D] )

Montreal, woooooooooo!

[Arjuna]

For a more indepth look at the tactical engagements I recommend Al Vannoy's and Jay Karamales "Against the Panzers: US Infantry versus German Tanks 1944-45" McFarland 1996. This covers eight engagements, four of which are from the Bulge, including Hosingen, Krinkelt/Rocherath, Don Butgenbach and Butsdorf.

[r6kunz]

I favor Danny Parker as a quick read- I like the way he alternates sidebar discussions, such as Operation Stosser, Heroes of Elsenborn, Hitler's Weather, Patton's Prayer, with the chapters of historic narrative. When I discovered the missing 19-20 Dec map I wrote Mr. Parker. He replied he had not noticed this before and would contact the publisher to correct any subsequent editions. He was nice enough to send me a copy of the correct map. I later bought a used copy of the 1991 edition from Amazon, which does have the correct 19-20 December map on pages 132-133.

Cole's official history is a bit dense, older, and has some errors- it exaggerates the number of Tigers as over 250 (Parker states the actual number on the battlefield was 87.) It does, however, have nice foldout maps in the appendix, and good aerial photos of villages involved in the fighting.

In some respects Dupuy's Hilter's Last Gamble is an update of the official history. It is detailed, and is best suited for someone with more than a passing interest the battle. In my opinion it is the best book for a reader who looking for an in depth analysis of the battle. The maps are easily followed, and the appendix and end-notes gives detailed unit composition and strength of personnel and AFVs. He gives a biographical sketch of commanders down to division level. He analyzes the US, British and German forces by service branch and equipment.
Appendix H German Combat Performance is an interesting analysis of the relative effectiveness of the two forces using a computer modeling system.
Note, however, there is a problem with the page numbering in the index- add three pages to the page referenced in the index to find the correct page in the text.

A recent Stackpole Military History Series, Panzers in Winter, Hilter's Army and the Battle of the Bulge, copyright 2006, is a recent book that I plan to read in conjunction with the launch of BotB!

[Llyranor]

Thanks for the input on Dupuy. That'll likely be my next Bulge book if I need another one.

ORIGINAL: Tzar007
I have the paperback 1991 edition and it has that same duplication of maps for Dec. 17-18 [:(]

ORIGINAL: HPT KUNZ
I later bought a used copy of the 1991 edition from Amazon, which does have the correct 19-20 December map on pages 132-133.

So, which one has the correct map [&:]? Judging from Amazon, the paperback I have is 2004.

[Greup]

ORIGINAL: Llyranor
I tried to look for Middlebrook's Arnhem as well, but it's out of print)

FYI: Arnhem 1944 -The Airborne Battle by Martin Middlebrook is back in print (2009) from Pen & Sword Books Ltd.


BTW, Just got me "A time for trumpets" and Parker's book mentinoed above. Will be a good read to prepare for "B-day" [:)]

[Llyranor]

ORIGINAL: Greup
FYI: Arnhem 1944 -The Airborne Battle by Martin Middlebrook is back in print (2009) from Pen & Sword Books Ltd.

Yes! I managed to find a paperback version a while back and loved it. Just ordered the hardcover version recently since this one would be a keeper in my library.

[Arjuna]

Yes we relied on Middlebrook a lot for HTTR.

[r6kunz]

My Parker 2004 edition does NOT have the correct map; my 2001 edition first edition paperback of 1991 edition HAS the correct map...

[Llyranor]

ORIGINAL: Arjuna

For a more indepth look at the tactical engagements I recommend Al Vannoy's and Jay Karamales "Against the Panzers: US Infantry versus German Tanks 1944-45" McFarland 1996. This covers eight engagements, four of which are from the Bulge, including Hosingen, Krinkelt/Rocherath, Don Butgenbach and Butsdorf.

How are the maps for this book? From reading the Amazon reviews, they seem to be numerous, but possibly confusing (lacking detail?).

[Arjuna]

There are many sketch maps. Some show contours, others of the city fights don't. I found them to be clear and consise. They usually show either mil symbols for each company and/or platoon but also many show individual weapon positions. It's focus is on the tactical battles, rather than the big picture. There are also TO&E tables and orbats.

[Llyranor]

Thanks! Depending on how I fare with my current Bulge books (backlog!), that one might be next if I still have an itch to read more on it.

EDIT: Also, would just like to add that Dupuy's Hitler's Last Gamble has absolutely FANTASTIC maps. Great quantity and quality to them.

[Llyranor]

Oooh, just another quick addendum. I've been reading more and more of Parker's book - nearing the end now. It's a lot more enjoyable now, possibly because I'm used to it. While yes, I can't always follow the village names on the maps, it's easier to follow the narrative now if I keep an eye on the situation maps and check out which division is where. The special topics/chapters are a joy to read, as well; lots of little insights on various different aspects of the battle. I'm actually thinking of picking up the hardcover version to get some better maps (the 2004 paperback maps aren't that well-printed), and get a proper map of Dec 17-18!

[JeffroK]

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/USA ... index.html

[kipanderson]

Hi,

Yes… I agree that the Charles MacDonald book A Time for Trumpets is the best… also try his Company Commander book… he was actually there and his Company Commander is such a classic it is on many a military reading list… including the US Army’s own recommended list.

But others are also good… such as the TN Dupuy Hitler’s Last Gamble…

All the best,
Kip.