BFTB AAR: The Losheim Gap

[Greup]

ORIGINAL: GoodGuy

ORIGINAL: BftB - Hetzer's unit description (general tab)

The unit description of the Hetzer tank translates Hetzer with the word "troublemaker".

...
I am not sure about the english translation for Hetzer, it may be "baiter" ??, in case you could say "to bait a fox or a bear" in English. Or maybe "badger", as I think "to badge" refers to hunting/pushing someone as well?

During my days playing the original Squad Leader and Cross of Iron I was relatively young and addicted to panzer porn. I sought ought the definitive (well..) source for tank data applicable to my favourite games and found out that Don Hill & Co had used a certain book for his tank research. I had to have it.

Therefore I am fortunate enough to have the English translation of "German Tanks of World War II" by Dr. F.M. von Senger und Etterlin

(Original title "Die deutschen Panzer 1926-45" (c) 1968 by J.F. Lehmanns Verlag, München.
My copy (c)Lionel Leventhal Ltd, 1969)

The nickname "Hezter" is used in the book as well as the English translation "Baiter" (page 31)

You are completely right about the PaK 39 L/48 although according to Dr von Senger und Etterlin there was a drawing No Bz 3471 dated 24th November 1944 which shows the Pz Kw 38(t) fitted with a 7.5 cm L/70 gun (the KwK 42 of the Panther). The author considered it unlikely that this idea left the drawing board.

Things that makes me confused are the following two snippets:

von Senger und Etterlin refers to the Reference order [for the Hetzer] 652/63 of 1st November 1944 but in the next sentence he says that the vehicle was in service from May 1944. Either the reference order is misquoted regarding year or possible the name "Hetzer" wasn't official until November.

The number produced during 1944 was 1577. Skoda produced 750 between Septebmer 1944 and May 1945.
Krupp was involved in installing the new (compared to Pz 38(t)) main armament during 1944.

A Pz Jg 38(d) (as in Deutsch - German) was planned and intended for service after 1945. Changes were to be another engine as well as either a t.5 cm KwK42 or a PaK L/70 in a rigid mounting.
There were obviously two varieties planned one (W 1806) with a rear mounted engine and one (W 1807) with the enginge mounted in the center of the vehicle.

Ah well... tank porn... those were the days.

Sorry for the rant. Back to waiting for BFTB.

[HansBolter]

In case you were not aware. Frido von Senger und Etterlin also wrote a personal memoir titled Niether Hope Nor Fear.

[simovitch]

Situation just before sunset on December 18th:
Not much progress made today but my plan was to consolidate my gains while holding the bridges and probing to the west-northwest. You can see that the big points (33) come from destroying the enemy and not so much by investing St. Vith. I'm about 1/2 way there with 15.1/33.3 points completed for destroyed units.

I think the best way to do this is to start hammering the US units trying to escape the Schnee Eifel trap. I only have 1 more full day to pick up some objective points so tomorrow should be decisive.

[Hub]

Thank you for posting this AAR - I can't wait to get this game.
 
Note to Panther/Matrix: "perimiter" should be spelled "perimeter"

[simovitch]

ORIGINAL: Hub

Thank you for posting this AAR - I can't wait to get this game.

Note to Panther/Matrix: "perimiter" should be spelled "perimeter"

Thanks Hub, that my bad... my speling suks.

[Greup]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

In case you were not aware. Frido von Senger und Etterlin also wrote a personal memoir titled Niether Hope Nor Fear.

Also? With all respect I think you might be misinformed. From what I understand the book you refer to - his memoirs "Krieg in Europa" (War in Europe) which was published post-humously in English in 1963 as "Neither Fear nor Hope" - was the only book he wrote.

The book I referred to was written by his son Ferdinand Maria von Senger und Etterlin which also means that the English Wikipedia article on Fridolin v. Senger u. Etterlin is not correct (not suprisingly mixing similar German names up).

The German Wikipedia article on Ferdinand Maria von Senger und Etterlin is correct regarding the authorship of books as far as I can judge.

[Greup]

ORIGINAL: Hub

Thank you for posting this AAR - I can't wait to get this game.

Note to Panther/Matrix: "perimiter" should be spelled "perimeter"

...and Schonberg should be spelled Schönberg (like on the map).

[GoodGuy]

ORIGINAL: Greup

Therefore I am fortunate enough to have the English translation of "German Tanks of World War II" by Dr. F.M. von Senger und Etterlin

I have some of the compendiums/encyclopedias by Thomas L. Jentz/Hillary L Doyle.
Jentz checked out various tanks in museums, measured hulls, interiors, armaments and what not, plus he doesn't just copy from other authors/works, as he dug for original docs in the library of congress and the Bundesarchiv in Freiburg, Germany. Some of his books are byproducts as they feature material he discovered accidentally in these archives (like his book about deployment and tactics of tiger I + II). In these instances he comes up with numbers (tanks leaving the factories) but he doesn't display which tank reached what unit, especially after all the re-routing the Germans had going there - these parts are less helpful for researchers.
Despite these rather weak works, his technical details/drawings and findings regarding changes during production are top-notch.

The nickname "Hezter" is used in the book as well as the English translation "Baiter" (page 31)

I start to like that, as in German the word harrier usually translates to either "looter" or the German/middle-European bird's name ("Weihe", zool.).
I'd either use the word baiter or I'd take out the translation.

You are completely right about the PaK 39 L/48 although according to Dr von Senger und Etterlin there was a drawing No Bz 3471 dated 24th November 1944 which shows the Pz Kw 38(t) fitted with a 7.5 cm L/70 gun (the KwK 42 of the Panther).

By the way: The Panther's KwK 42 is in fact a modified 75mm PaK 42, [:D] that's why it had even more punch than the Tiger I's 88mm.

Things that makes me confused are the following two snippets:

von Senger und Etterlin refers to the Reference order [for the Hetzer] 652/63 of 1st November 1944 but in the next sentence he says that the vehicle was in service from May 1944. Either the reference order is misquoted regarding year or possible the name "Hetzer" wasn't official until November.

The number produced during 1944 was 1577. Skoda produced 750 between Septebmer 1944 and May 1945.
Krupp was involved in installing the new (compared to Pz 38(t)) main armament during 1944.

Production of the Hetzer "commenced in April 1944 at BMM and was taken up by Skoda in September 1944". (page 53, "Encyclopedia of German Tanks of World War Two" by Peter Chamberlain and Hillary L. Doyle - Technical Editor Thomas L. Jentz).

The Germans renamed the Czech company CKD (which built the LT-35/LT-38) to BMM ("Böhmisch-Mährische-Maschinenfabrik") in 1939, after they had sacked Czechoslovakia in March 1939.

Senger was either not aware of the fact that 2 different plants were producing the Pz35/38(t) (CKD produced at least around 20% of the Pz35(t) according to Jentz) and of the relocation of the production later on, or he didn't think it was worth mentioning CKD, due to their small share of the output.

A Pz Jg 38(d) (as in Deutsch - German) was planned and intended for service after 1945. Changes were to be another engine as well as either a t.5 cm KwK42 or a PaK L/70 in a rigid mounting.

May 1945 was the deadline "for change over to rigid mounting of the Pak 39/1 and 105mm StuH42 (105 Assault Howitzer)", according to Jentz.

Ah well... tank porn... those were the days.

Yeah it is tank porn, hehe ok sorry Simo go ahead[:D]

[simovitch]

... and Steinebrück, and Prümmerberg...

some levels of the UI will not recognize umlauts and such. I'll take a look and fix these up if possible.

[GoodGuy]

ORIGINAL: simovitch

... and Steinebrück, and Prümmerberg...

some levels of the UI will not recognize umlauts and such. I'll take a look and fix these up if possible.

Ha, i wanted to mention that too, but Greup was faster! [:D]
The official German rules of grammar allow for replacing "ö" with "oe", "ü" with "ue" and "ä" with "ae". You might want to consider using these replacements.

[simovitch]

ORIGINAL: GoodGuy

ORIGINAL: simovitch

... and Steinebrück, and Prümmerberg...

some levels of the UI will not recognize umlauts and such. I'll take a look and fix these up if possible.

Ha, i wanted to mention that too, but Greup was faster! [:D]
The official German rules of grammar allow for replacing "ö" with "oe", "ü" with "ue" and "ä" with "ae". You might want to consider using these replacements.

Sehr gut, vielen dank.

[GoodGuy]

Gern geschehen. ("you're welcome") [:D] Or "bitte sehr" ("here you are" / "you're welcome").
Ok 'nuff German lessons [;)]

[Fallschirmjager]

What happened to the snow textures?

[Arjuna]

It wasn't snowing on Day 1. [:)]

[Greup]

Senger was either not aware of the fact that 2 different plants were producing the Pz35/38(t) (CKD produced at least around 20% of the Pz35(t) according to Jentz) and of the relocation of the production later on, or he didn't think it was worth mentioning CKD, due to their small share of the output.

I'll supply the entire quote about production which makes it clear he knew about different production sites although he uses the Böhmisch-Mährisch company name:

Construction of the chassis and the assembly were carried out by Böhmisch-Mährisch and by Skoda of Königgrätz, while the armour plate was supplied by Poldihütte of Komotau, Böhmisch-Mährisch, Linke-Hoffmann-Werke of Breslau and Skoda of Pilsen. A total of 1577 vehicles were produced during 1944, and Skoda turned out 750 between September 1944 and May 1945. Krupp also participated in the production programme during 1944, being responsible ofr the installation of new main armament.

(Btw,I have the very nice Chamberlain book as well).

[simovitch]

December 19th, late morning:
The advance elements of the Führer Begleit Brigade have arrived, and I have ordered these to advance to Wallerode northeast of St Vith in order to at least deny the US those VP's. I will set low aggro and the "bypass" SOP so that they don't get sidetracked by the presence of any enemy on the way.

The remaining armored elements of the FBB can help with the mop up when they arrive, or if the road to St. Vith clears up I may send them there and make a try for the town.

[simovitch]

Late afternoon, December 19th:
The FBB has stalled on the road to St. Vith and under heavy bombardment. Hopefully they can reach Wallerode during the night without too many casualties. I should be able to get the max VP for casualties, but it looks like I will need to deny the US the occupation points for the St Vith Perimeter to get that decisive Victory.

[simovitch]

Well, here it is - a German decisive victory.

The advance FBB contingent made it to Wallerode during the night while the remaining mechanized units wreaked some havoc along the Auw - Bleialf Road. The US suffered heavily in AFV's and Men including 31 units surrendering. The US did put up a tough fight in front of St. Vith and I was getting a fair beating by the 7th Armored's drive to Steinebrück, which changed hands a few times in the early morning hours of the 20th.

I fixed several errors in the scenario including the ones pointed out on this forum, and I may do a little bit more tweaking of the objectives but overall this one is a done deal. I was very happy with the sketchy availability of the German Corps artillery, reflecting the historical situation nicely. Fuel was never a real problem (but that changes for the Germans in the later scenarios).

Hope you all enjoyed this one. There are a few other new features I may showcase in another AAR when the next build comes out. For now it's back to the Reference Manual.[:)]

[Helpless]

Thanks for the AAR, simovitch! Game looks very sweet..

Couple minor asks..

- Would it be possible to provide the list of destroyed/lost equipment for every side when the game ends? This would add some chrome to the game, i.e. depending on side you play, it gives much more satisfaction to know that there was PzKw-VI destroyed and not just "some" AFV. [:)]

- Also would be good to have an access to the list of combined losses of friendly forces during the game. Sometimes to get this info I need to either remember the total amount of equipment and make math during the game play, or usually save and then just surrender with maximum zoom [:D]

- As I see, in BFTB as in COTA or HTTR, primed info on bridges is available as a free intel. Wouldn't it be more historical to give that info in the same way we get info on enemy units? That would make a bridge securing much more careful, thus slowing down the bridge crossing, as it was in RL.

[Arjuna]

ORIGINAL: Helpless
- As I see, in BFTB as in COTA or HTTR, primed info on bridges is available as a free intel. Wouldn't it be more historical to give that info in the same way we get info on enemy units? That would make a bridge securing much more careful, thus slowing down the bridge crossing, as it was in RL.

Good idea. We would need a set of move tables for each command ( currently one per side ) and an "actual" set with the real data.
This, however, would require us to triple the number of moveTables and the RAM we use for them and increase the processing to update them.

TT3671 - AI - Intel on Bridges - Add Crossings to the Intel system - Add Additional MoveTables