This new stand alone release based on the legendary War in the Pacific from 2 by 3 Games adds significant improvements and changes to enhance game play, improve realism, and increase historical accuracy. With dozens of new features, new art, and engine improvements, War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition brings you the most realistic and immersive WWII Pacific Theater wargame ever!
Yes I know there was a thunderstorm in the listed combat action,but there are hundreds of planes on search mission in the game,your telling me that with all the sighting reports that a TF had no idea that an enemy force was close by,at some point in the days leading up to the combat action?[;)]
I dont know what you're on about, but the ships were spotted the day before, that is how he knew the enemy TF was in the area. It is also the reason why he sent his surface ships to the location.
Then out spake brave Horatius, The Captain of the gate:
"To every man upon this earth death cometh soon or late.
And how can man die better Than facing fearful odds,
For the ashes of his fathers, And the temples of his Gods."
Ok he all ready new the Japanese task force was in the area,so how come the allies radar only identified it was there at a range of 5000 yds thats virtually point blank range, instead of firing shells he could have just rammed the Jap capital ship's,that would have put paid to the 4 CV & 2 BB?[;)]
Regards,
Graham.
I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction! Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller
No, the ships were in port. Small and fast them made to contact in a day, maybe in a night. The other task force, the one the with BB's, did get spotted and hit pretty hard. CA's sunk, CL's sunk, but no BB's I think they may have concentrated on the big TF and either did not see, or ignored, the little one. Lucky thunderstorm and then the results you see
Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly
Ok I make contact with a large Japanese task force at a range of 5,000 yds I'm afraid I would order my destroyers in to either torpedo the carrier's & battleship's or ram them,your at war the Japanese have just taken out your major surface force's at Pearl,revenge is a course best served cold ram them all to hell.[;)]
In any case the order of the day is target the CARRIER'S & BATTLESHIP'S they are the vital unit's that need to be eliminated.[;)]
Regards,
Graham.
I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction! Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller
Did not a British DD ram either one of the Scharnhorsts or Hipper in broad daylight off Norway? From a lot of the incredulous commentary here it is perfectly obvious there are not many "Blackshoes" in this bunch. The "God's Eye" view of the gamer is way too omnipotent.
On a tactical level the IJN did not manuever its CVTFs in a compact ring formation. Spread a dozen DDs out on picket duty at a 25-30 km radius from the center of the formation and you will see that there are holes in the ring "big enough to drive a bus (or a column of warships) through" without detection (average gap 6-7000 m).
I think Japanese gunnery is a bit weak at first glance when compared the USN. Then again; IRL the Japanese Battleline never fought a surface battle that came out all that well or in the least according to expectation in spite of all their nighttime/bad weather practice (Naval Battle of Guadalcanal I & II, Surigao Strait and Battle Off Samar). THE RN and its Commonwealth Allies had two years of real war experience including a large number of real surface battles in the day and the night and in all sorts of weather (as opposed to the pre-war nautical kabuki in favor in the IJN). So although the USN might be a little strong in surface combat early on I don't have nearly such a problem with this result since the RN pulled it off.
At first I thought there was a problem with air combat, but it seems to be confined to a few of the smaller scenarios, maybe the Zero is a bit underpowered but I can live with it.
However the ludicrous bias for the allies in surface combat cannot be denied. The result we are discussing is not even in the realms of possibility, its bollocks basically.
I dont want to come across as a moaning all the time, but one of your playtesters, Yamato Hugger, says he brought up this issue time and time again but was ignored[&:]
We are monitoring a range of issues including surface combat
I suspect the main problem is that the Japanese superiority in visual search at night is missing. We need to keep the gunship advantage in night or bad weather to discourage the CVTFs from getting in too close.
Harry Erwin
"For a number to make sense in the game, someone has to calibrate it and program code. There are too many significant numbers that behave non-linearly to expect that. It's just a game. Enjoy it." herwin@btinternet.com
ORIGINAL: Miller
I dont want to come across as a moaning all the time, but one of your playtesters, Yamato Hugger, says he brought up this issue time and time again but was ignored[&:]
I will point you again to the replies that Joe and I made in that thread. Surface Combat was not ignored before release, we actually did a LOT of additional testing on that after several testers, including YH, asked us to look into it. Please be aware that the beta testers were not privy to all team discussions or all team testing, only to that which was posted in the testing forum. In a game like this, one unusual result actually proves nothing and an issue that affects a certain subset of surface combat (even if it happens repeatedly in that situation) does not mean that all surface combat is off. To test in this game, you have to make sure you're testing the right way and you need a huge sample set to get results that are at all meaningful.
In any case, we agree that surface combat could use some more tweaking, especially in certain cases, and that's being done.
OK, a lucky result, but I am not giving it back. judging by what limped away, after secondary action, one carrier sunk, one CV and 1 BB badly hurt. Probably significant aircraft losses. This changes the game significantly. I have 2 carriers finishing refit at Pearl. 2 More at Noumea. I am seriously eying an early shot at Guadalcanal. In the central pacific Midway is no longer a concern. If they could take it, they could not hold it. I kind of have the initiative.
Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly
What I don't understand is would there not be a protective ring around the carriers? I always kind of assumed that there was some sort of ring for anti-sub duty plus AA.
Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly
The game does model surface warships in a Carrier TF screening the carriers, but if combat starts at extremely close range then the screening has effectively failed already.
The game does model surface warships in a Carrier TF screening the carriers, but if combat starts at extremely close range then the screening has effectively failed already.
Yes I agree Erik, but one must admit that such TFs were much more lose than they seem to be right now.... They sound like tight packs of ship while CV formations on the Japanese side absolutely weren't from what Ive read [:)]
Plus of all the devices listed in the database,SONAR has been overlooked,because it to hard to model in game programming terms,pull the other one it has bells on.Without SONAR it would be the submarine that would be the master of the oceans and not the aircraft carrier,if you can't see it how can you attack it,the game is massive yet this vital invention is overlooked,come on implement it into the game now!!!!![:@][:@]
I think that unless a ship has sonar listed in it's weapons loadout,that it should not be able to attack a sub with depth charges or whatever, simple solution is just list sonar as a device in the database,and unless a ship has it in it's weapons load out no attack allowed against subs simple.
So sonar + depthcharges etc listed on board a ships weapons system,ship allowed to attack submarine's if not both listed then no attack allowed yes /no maybe perhaps ? The sonar does not even need to be programmed to do anything,other than be used in combination with depthcharges etc.
SONAR
Hellfirejet sorry, I can see what you mean, but please drop that SONAR thing. You heard about hydrophones, didn't you? Any escort ship with hydrophones could be expected to lead an attack on a sub, escorts didn't wait for ASDIC to be invented before starting to kill subs...
And btw the presence of any detection device is partially simulated by the ASW rating. If I am not mistaken, it takes into account the presence of an active detection device of the SONAR kind already. You saw that in WitP already right? Or am I wrong?
Heh, recently I got this combat result. One have to think about HOW THE HELL THEY COULD GET THEMSELVES SO CLOSE considering battleships on both sides are 220m/728 ft in leght. (1 yard = 3 feet or 0,91m) [X(] The lookouts/radar operators on both sides must have been totally drunk [:D]
Day Time Surface Combat, near Tulagi at 116,137, Range 1,000 Yards
Allied aircraft
no flights
Allied aircraft losses
No Allied losses
Japanese Ships
BB Hiei, Shell hits 1
BB Kirishima, Shell hits 7, on fire
CL Nagara
DD Akizuki
DD Mutsuki
DD Yayoi
DD Uzuki, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Yuzuki
Allied Ships
BB North Carolina, Shell hits 28, and is sunk
CA Portland, Shell hits 2
DD Maury
DD Benham, Shell hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Balch
Reduced visibility due to Thunderstorms
Maximum visibility in Thunderstorms: 3,000 yards
Range closes to 29,000 yards...
Range closes to 23,000 yards...
Range closes to 17,000 yards...
Range closes to 11,000 yards...
Range closes to 5,000 yards...
Range closes to 1,000 yards...
Onoshi, S. crosses the 'T'
BB North Carolina engages BB Kirishima at 1,000 yards
BB North Carolina sunk by BB Hiei at 1,000 yards
BB Kirishima engages DD Benham at 1,000 yards
DD Benham sunk by DD Uzuki at 1,000 yards
orders Allied TF to disengage
Range increases to 2,000 yards
BB Kirishima engages CA Portland at 2,000 yards
DD Balch engages BB Kirishima at 2,000 yards
DD Uzuki engages DD Maury at 2,000 yards
Range increases to 7,000 yards
BB Kirishima engages CA Portland at 7,000 yards
BB Kirishima engages DD Balch at 7,000 yards
CL Nagara engages CA Portland at 7,000 yards
DD Yayoi engages DD Balch at 7,000 yards
Range increases to 9,000 yards
BB Hiei engages CA Portland at 9,000 yards
DD Uzuki engages DD Maury at 9,000 yards
DD Akizuki engages DD Balch at 9,000 yards
Task forces break off...
Reduced visibility due to Thunderstorms
Maximum visibility in Thunderstorms: 3,000 yards
Range closes to 29,000 yards...
Range closes to 23,000 yards...
Range closes to 17,000 yards...
Range closes to 11,000 yards...
Range closes to 5,000 yards...
Range closes to 1,000 yards... Onoshi, S. crosses the 'T'
BB North Carolina engages BB Kirishima at 1,000 yards
BB North Carolina sunk by BB Hiei at 1,000 yards
BB Kirishima engages DD Benham at 1,000 yards
DD Benham sunk by DD Uzuki at 1,000 yards
orders Allied TF to disengage
Range increases to 2,000 yards
BB Kirishima engages CA Portland at 2,000 yards
DD Balch engages BB Kirishima at 2,000 yards
DD Uzuki engages DD Maury at 2,000 yards
Range increases to 7,000 yards
BB Kirishima engages CA Portland at 7,000 yards
BB Kirishima engages DD Balch at 7,000 yards
CL Nagara engages CA Portland at 7,000 yards
DD Yayoi engages DD Balch at 7,000 yards
Range increases to 9,000 yards
BB Hiei engages CA Portland at 9,000 yards
DD Uzuki engages DD Maury at 9,000 yards
DD Akizuki engages DD Balch at 9,000 yards
Task forces break off...
I take it one of the many shells that hit North Carolina were a critical hit of some sort? Perhaps many DP battery hits etc and a few major whacks from 38cm guns? Seems like NC was taken out fairly quickly by a lucky shell hit to me.
Yamato, IMO the best looking Battleship.
"Hey, a packet of googly eyes! I'm so taking these." Hank Venture
