v10102a land fragments 'organising' problem

[michaelm75au]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: Grotius

I'm seeing this too. Sounds like I shouldn't worry about it. But I'm curious: Will I ever actually get these fragments back? I was bummed to see 3 fragments of the 4th division on my list of 'organizing' units.

If I understand correctly, these fragments are the result of losses during earlier movement by sea of the units involved, due to a bug that is now fixed. The parent units should already have made up the losses by gaining replacements. Meanwhile, the Patch fixed the bug, and it also exposed these 'lost fragments' in the reinforcements list. They had code to clean them up, but it wasn't quite ready when the patch was released.

So, the bug is fixed, but we see sort of a 'ghost' of the prior effects of the bug. Most likely the code that will chase away the ghost will come out with whatever and whenever is the next release. Like ghosts everywhere, this one can only scare you and annoy you - it can't hurt you!

The fix in patch 3 was to recover the LCUs that had lost their 'type' (Infantry, Armour, Engineer,etc) by it being changed to NONE.
Being NONE meant that it no longer functioned properly or was no longer visible on the map.
This fix is done when ever a save is loaded on the expectation that once it fixed the LCU it would never find anymore in future loads.

However, due to the strange way that LCU fragments are handled - once a fragment is finished with, it changes its type to NONE.
A side affect of this fix is that ANY fragments that have been used, are being restored when the save is loaded.
However, the fragment will have no devices as the devices would have been transferred to the parent or another fragment on the map. Thus it is only filling up the screen.

There is existing code that removes empty LCU fragments during the turn.
For an AI game without needing to reload, you can see all these organizing fragments have been removed on the following turn. However if you reload the autosave from that turn, the fragments reappear.

Thus when the initial fix is 'fixed', the fragments will stop showing up.

[michaelm75au]

ORIGINAL: castor troy

ORIGINAL: michaelm

One more thing, I´ve got two dozen Dutch air units trying to appear in Aden, the count down to 1 day and then revert back to 7 days the next turn, counting down to 1 again, reverting to 7 and never appearing. Means that also my air reinforcement list is some kind of borked with the two dozen Dutch units spamming my list. But this was already happening before installing the latest patch (never used the beta).

If a group can't find a base to come in at, then it delays for sometime and tries again.

If you have a save showing this, I can verify that is the case and not something else.

please find attached the safe. Only the Dutch units have an issue, even though it seems this day the issue solved itselve to some extend. First the Dutch units always counted down to 1 to revert up to 7 again, base of arrival always has been Aden. Then this turn, ABDA showed up at Aden and exactly this turn the Dutch airgroups changed their destination to "unknown" so they won´t show up. They fill the top of my reinforcement list though.

also please note that the issue with the 200 fragments has not solved itselve, two turns after installing the patch, I´ve still got them in the list.

thanks for taking a look

If a group can't arrive at the designated base, it will arrive at the national home base.
If the home base(s) have been captured, then the group can't arrive and is delayed a week. This is to allow for the possibility of the base being recaptured.

The Dutch and Philippino groups are unique in that their bases are prone to being overrun. There is really two options where there is no home base:
(a) the groups can't form and should be discarded, or
(b) the groups will form up later when a home base is recaptured or

I took option (b) as this would cause the least amount of confusion rather than just have groups 'disappear' (even if recorded in Ops report).

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: khyberbill

Must be a language barrier, I understood BigJ62 perfectly. Every time you open a save file in a PBEM from your foe; you and I and all the rest of us will see the fragments listed. It doesnt affect the game. Rinse and repeat, every time you will see this when you open a new save game file. Until they fix it (whith this annoyance being the result of another fix), which someone else posted as the fix for this missing in the latest patch.

they are gone in my opponent´s reinforcement list though

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: michaelm

ORIGINAL: castor troy

ORIGINAL: michaelm



If a group can't find a base to come in at, then it delays for sometime and tries again.

If you have a save showing this, I can verify that is the case and not something else.

please find attached the safe. Only the Dutch units have an issue, even though it seems this day the issue solved itselve to some extend. First the Dutch units always counted down to 1 to revert up to 7 again, base of arrival always has been Aden. Then this turn, ABDA showed up at Aden and exactly this turn the Dutch airgroups changed their destination to "unknown" so they won´t show up. They fill the top of my reinforcement list though.

also please note that the issue with the 200 fragments has not solved itselve, two turns after installing the patch, I´ve still got them in the list.

thanks for taking a look

If a group can't arrive at the designated base, it will arrive at the national home base.
If the home base(s) have been captured, then the group can't arrive and is delayed a week. This is to allow for the possibility of the base being recaptured.

The Dutch and Philippino groups are unique in that their bases are prone to being overrun. There is really two options where there is no home base:
(a) the groups can't form and should be discarded, or
(b) the groups will form up later when a home base is recaptured or

I took option (b) as this would cause the least amount of confusion rather than just have groups 'disappear' (even if recorded in Ops report).

thanks, this is the info I didn´t know

[Rainer79]

ORIGINAL: castor troy
they are gone in my opponent´s reinforcement list though

I just tested it. If I (as Japan) simply run the new turn these fragments won't show up. If I interrupt my work on the turn by saving and then reloading, I'll get them back.

But as this problem is pretty harmless, I don't mind the extra scrolling.

[ADB123]

I noticed that for some of the "organizing" units, such as the 44th, 45th and 46th Indian Bde, when I go to the actual unit screen and click on the "Unit Org" button a fragment with a ".../1" on its name appears along with the "parent" unit. The ".../1" fragment has 0 supplies, 0 assault, and is shown as being located at "0,0".

But some of the other "parent" units don't show the "Unit Org" button active, even though there is a "fragment" organizing. Does this mean that the parent unit has already received its missing upgrades?

Thx

[joey]

How far does this fragment issue go? I was wondering because I had the Wahoo sink about two weeks ago (in the game) due to damage and out of fuel. More out of fuel than due to damage. It was yet to be reported as sunk, however, in the ops report. Not unusual there. But after the patch it reappeared at the same place it had sunk two week earlier. I hope my other subs that have yet to be "reported as lost" reappear.

[michaelm75au]

Don't worry about these 'empty' fragments.
They go away when you run a turn, but a new set will reappear when the turn is loaded again.

Nuisance factor: high
Risk factor: Low

[bradfordkay]

Okay, so we will only have to put up with this until the next patch, right?

It is a bit of a nuisance, after all... [;)]

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: michaelm

Don't worry about these 'empty' fragments.
They go away when you run a turn, but a new set will reappear when the turn is loaded again.

Nuisance factor: high
Risk factor: Low

Michael,

Longer term observations, posting this just to make sure you guys are aware:

More fragments are accumulating over time as more units are moved by sea. Still no more than display effects so far.

BTW, they also show up on a unit's Unit Organization display.

[Grotius]

I will also watch for further accumulation of fragments. But how are you keeping track, witpqs? Do they show up on Tracker or something?

Also, this is probably unrelated to the 'organizing' issue, but I thought I'd ask to be sure. I lost an SNLF during the (otherwise successful) invasion of Wake Island, and I was surprised to see the unit reappear as a reinforcement at Kwajalein. (Actually, I was surprised the unit poofed in the first place, as the invasion went pretty smoothly after the initial shock attack.) But the new LCU appeared with three fragments described in its 'unit org' screen -- one 'destroyed,' one 'inactive,' one on map with a very small TOE. I clicked 'rebuild unit' to regrow it. Is this anything related to the 'organizing' issue? I'm assuming not, and I'm not worried about it, but I am mildly curious.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Grotius

I will also watch for further accumulation of fragments. But how are you keeping track, witpqs? Do they show up on Tracker or something?

Just press 'i', then click on ground reinforcements. I have to keep an eye on it to be ready to deploy new units. The 'organizing' units all appear at the top, and I've noticed newer entries as I scrolled down to the 'real' entries.

Also, for one unit I've noticed that empty fragments located at 0,0 show up on the display you get when you click on 'Unit Organization' on the LCU display. I have not checked around to see if other units that were moved by sea also show this, but if one does I assume they all would.

I have no idea about your destroyed/un-destroyed unit issue.

[jwilkerson]

BTW I have asked why we even want ANY fragments showing up on the ground reinforcement screen. I for one - would be perfectly happy if only editor defined ground unit reinforcements show up on the ground reinforcement screen. But, some team members feel strongly that Allied players need to be able to move their fragments around on the off map holding boxes and that thus - fragments should show on the ground reinforcement screen. So for now, we are leaving them in.

[witpqs]

I have no problem with fragments being "in". I'm just reporting an update on this particular bug (empty fragments galore).

[michaelm75au]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: Grotius

I will also watch for further accumulation of fragments. But how are you keeping track, witpqs? Do they show up on Tracker or something?

Just press 'i', then click on ground reinforcements. I have to keep an eye on it to be ready to deploy new units. The 'organizing' units all appear at the top, and I've noticed newer entries as I scrolled down to the 'real' entries.

Also, for one unit I've noticed that empty fragments located at 0,0 show up on the display you get when you click on 'Unit Organization' on the LCU display. I have not checked around to see if other units that were moved by sea also show this, but if one does I assume they all would.

I have no idea about your destroyed/un-destroyed unit issue.

The fragments showing up are not all sea-transport related. ANY fragment could reappear in the list.
And yes the 0,0 means that it shouldn't really be there. That is one indication ( and why some real units, before a much earlier patch, were dropping out) that unit is not real.

[Grotius]

Well, today I had two strange events related to this issue. The first is somewhat annoying; the second, I hope, is harmless.

1. As I reported in my AAR, on the same day that an air HQ unloaded at a forward base, one fragment of it also appeared as a "reinforcement" in Tokyo. Unfortunately, the fragment is listed as the Headquarters, even though most of the unit is at the forward base. That means I can't load torpedoes at the forward base, unless the two LCUs switch designations in a coming turn. I guess the only recourse is to ship the fragment from Tokyo to the forward base -- again. Or is there any other solution?

2. On the same turn, all LCU reinforcements that had been listed as "organizing" suddenly disappeared from the reinforcement menu. I assume this is harmless? I recall reading here that you could "cure" this "organizing" problem by playing several turns in quick succession, but our PBEM actually has been on hiatus for a week, so I don't understand why it suddenly went away. Anyway, we'll see whether my opponent experiences something similar when he gets the turn from me, probably tomorrow. Is this anything to be concerned about?

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Grotius


2. On the same turn, all LCU reinforcements that had been listed as "organizing" suddenly disappeared from the reinforcement menu. I assume this is harmless? I recall reading here that you could "cure" this "organizing" problem by playing several turns in quick succession, but our PBEM actually has been on hiatus for a week, so I don't understand why it suddenly went away. Anyway, we'll see whether my opponent experiences something similar when he gets the turn from me, probably tomorrow. Is this anything to be concerned about?

Grotius, I don't understand. What was the theory behind the "quick succession" fix? It doesn't make sense to me that it would make a difference.

[Grotius]

I think if you play two or more AI turns in succession, without exiting the game, that cures the issue? But if you're playing a PBEM, it's not an option? I may remember wrong, though. As for why this might cure things, I have no idea.

Mostly I'm curious why my "organizing" units suddenly stopped showing up. I don't mind, so long as I don't keep seeing fragmentary reinforcements arrive in Tokyo. Fragments normally aren't a problem -- but they are a problem if they decide THEY will keep the torpedoes to themselves!

[witpqs]

Understood - I remember that post. Only fixes it during the extended playing session (and can't work for PBM). Thanks.

[afspret]

This happens to me every time I open a saved game to play. I can confirm that if you're playing against the AI, after a couple of turns, all those units shown as organizing are no longer there.