New v1.0.5.7 Public Beta Now Available!

[hewwo]

Yeah, I've also seen some inconsistent behaviour with AI. The problem here is probably that the game is just to difficult to balance, expecially AI wise, for a single developer who must also maintain all other aspects AND implement new features. I'm writing my thesis on complex adaptive systems, and this game seems like a perfect example of how difficult it is to manage those.

Here's what I think should happen: make the game very easy to mod. including AI (see for instance the scripted AI in space empires V, or supreme commander). Without many people trying out many different approaches this game will never become completely balanced, especially AI wise! I know it'll be a lot of work but IMHO it's the best way to keep this game going on the long run. Besides. I can wait. There's an upcoming thee-week-hangover once we win the finals in the world cup!

[WoodMan]

The AI is pretty good at some aspects of the game, it just stagnates after a while, and seemingly whatever change was made between the last official and the beta patches made it a bit less effective at attacking.

What I've seen of the AI so far shows that it can handle the economy pretty well, and establish a starting Empire, but it doesn't know where to go from there.  I'm playing with all starting systems on Trying and the overall planet quality of the galaxy reduced, and the AI is not having money problems, this is a really good sign.  So we can deduce from that that the reason for the AI not progressing is not due to money problems, which I've seen in a fair few other games over the years, it literally just needs a kick in the backside, lol.

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: WoodMan
In both the Beta patches I have yet to be attacked at all.

Please upload a save - I have not only been attacked but had half my empire conquered by an AI empire in a 1.0.5.7 Beta test game.

The AI is actually far more adept at running its empire now than it was in 1.00 and I've seen AI empires engage in long wars where they do actually eliminate other empires.

I'm interested to see your save file so we can figure out why things are playing out differently for you. One of the main things I change in my settings is that I crank the Aggressiveness up on the Galaxy level and that may be making the difference.

Regards,

- Erik

[tornnight]

Seems to me like the aggressiveness slider should dictate how often empires go to war, now how they respond to it.

Once you're at war, an empire should do it's best to win.

[taltamir]

ORIGINAL: tornnight

Seems to me like the aggressiveness slider should dictate how often empires go to war, now how they respond to it.

Once you're at war, an empire should do it's best to win.

this is a good point. High agressiveness does not actually make the game more difficult as I initially suspect, it makes races be in constant wars with EVERYONE... which is bankrupting to them, devastates their reputation (and thus morale and income), and does a bunch of other horrible things to them. They also tend to go into multi-front wars that way, instead of focusing on easy conquests.

[WoodMan]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

ORIGINAL: WoodMan
In both the Beta patches I have yet to be attacked at all.

Please upload a save - I have not only been attacked but had half my empire conquered by an AI empire in a 1.0.5.7 Beta test game.

The AI is actually far more adept at running its empire now than it was in 1.00 and I've seen AI empires engage in long wars where they do actually eliminate other empires.

I'm interested to see your save file so we can figure out why things are playing out differently for you. One of the main things I change in my settings is that I crank the Aggressiveness up on the Galaxy level and that may be making the difference.

Regards,

- Erik

Hey Erik,

I'm still in my first long game in 1.0.5.7, which is perhaps why I haven't seen any attacks yet, if you are experiencing attacks in this new Beta then hopefully I will too soon. I have my Save, I will play for another hour or 2 tonight and then upload both saves. From what I've seen over the last hour of play the AI Empires have really remained static, hopefully with two savegames an hour or two apart we might see a difference, if not we have a prime example of the stagnation I was talking about.

I *think* I may have found the reason that the Ackdarian and Boskara aren't invading planets too, I have the tech speed on very slow, and I am at this moment unable to build Troop Carriers or Destroyers because my other techs are too advanced for my current Shipyard, neither of the AI Empires in question have Shipyard tech either (because I've been looking around for it to trade and they don't have it) which means that it might be impossible for them to invade planets! If this is the case, it's the explanation for why there has been very little action and my above complaint about the war between these two is irrelevent. [:D] (Sorry I didn't think of this before making my previous post).

[DasTactic]

I had to concede my latest game against the AI because it conquered my home world early on. Not only did it protect its own world, it landed around 20 troops to take the home planet. This was early on in the game.

[WoodMan]

Okay it seems others are seeing increased activity from the AI in the latest Beta patch.  I played for another hour or more as I said I would and have posted below two saved games, one I saved last night and one I saved after finishing up playing tonight.  If you compare the two you will see all the Empires I had discovered in the first save have not expanded at all by the 2nd save, their colonies remain the same and their military strength is about the same, with a couple of small variations.

However... fleets have been seen moving around now, I've had some come to refuel in my systems, also I have discovered a few new Empires, most have the usual 2-4 colonies, but one Empire is much bigger with 19 colonies and a military twice as strong as mine, so clearly these guys are not having any problems expanding [:)]

Of all the new Empires I discovered one has colonized a new planet since I found them, the Naxxilians colonized a large Lost Colony of Humans, this was a smart move, they beat my colony ship there by a matter of minutes.  I'm thinking maybe the reason the AI hasn't colonized the empty planets is that it sees them as no benefit to their economy, because they sure snapped up the human colony fast!

As for the Acdarian/Boskara war, still no territory changes, but there has been some fluctuation in their military strength, the Boskara have grown a fair bit stronger.

I'm sure things will get interesting soon, 4 Empires are repairing the planet destroyer thing at the same time [:D] Who gets it when that happens?

Edit: oops forgot the saves, I'm not sure they really tell us much about war, but perhaps about the expansion: http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/5/31/2462189//WoodMans Saves.zip

[Elrohir525]

Hello Erik and Elliot,
 
I'm really enjoying the new beta so far, but noted a few problems:
-Ice asteroids are uncolonizable, but still sometimes have ancient ruins on them, making those ruins permanently unavailable
-I've been repeatedly directed by events to the same site but, after multiple trips to said site, there's never anything there (although the blue circles on the target disappear each time after my ship arrives)
-I searched the co-ordinates that are supposed to have the final technological archive of the ancients, but it's empty.  I am getting new events that give directions, but never to that archive that I want
 
Great work otherwise guys!  [:)]
 

[selform]

where i can download new patch????? help pleez

[Tycow]

ORIGINAL: selform

where i can download new patch????? help pleez

In the very first post in this thread it tells you... [:-]

Here's how to download this update - because it's a public beta, you need to get it from our Members Club. Click on the Members Link in the top nav bar. If you haven't created an account there yet or registered your copy of Distant Worlds, please do so. Once logged in and registered, click on "My Games" then click on the "Private Downloads" link next to Distant Worlds and you will see a link to download the public beta update.

Please note that once this becomes official, it will be available through our normal download and update process (in the Latest Downloads section and through the "Check for Updates" link on your game menu) but we do not like to release public beta updates widely until we are sure they are good to go.

[elliotg]

ORIGINAL: mizkif

I've been getting a pretty consistent bug in this version as well as the last. I didn't see it reported yet but I apologize if it was and I didn't notice it.

Any large ship (I think I was noticing it as small as 600 or so) has bugged speed. No matter how it is designed, when it is built it will come out as having either very low or negative maximum speed. They can still use their hyperdrive but they're pretty much useless.

This has been completely consistent across all of my games. I just downloaded the new patch and started a game specifically to test this out, designing a size 1495 capital ship with 173 Vortex Engines and a max speed of 212, yet it ended up with a -6 maximum speed.

Is this a bug or am I overlooking something?

Thanks for that report mizkif. I'll take a look and see what's going on there.

[elliotg]

ORIGINAL: taltamir
btw. just to be clear, this is FLEET behavior, right? We wont have ships individually flying into battle with 0 fuel, right? Because a ship without fuel is useless in combat and just goes to its death. What it should do is independently go refueling. Not fly with the fleet into combat while it is out of fuel.

Yes, this additional refueling/assembling check only applies to fleets, not individual ships.

[elliotg]

ORIGINAL: WoodMan
In both the Beta patches I have yet to be attacked at all.  In the last official patch I was attacked by AI fleets, in one game I was actually eradicated very early on by a huge Haakonish onslaught, and fought a desperate war against some Ikkuro and Attuk at the same time in another game, the Ikkuro attacked me at several locations at once and kept coming relentlessly, the Atuuk instead had one huge fleet I couldn't possibly defeat with my forces, it was all good fun.  But since the two Beta patches I have never been attacked except by pirates.

In my current game (can upload if you wish) the Ackdarian and Boskara have been at war for a long time, I think somewhere between 10 and 20 game years even.  In that time, the Military Strength of the Ackdarian has remained about the same, the Boskara lost around 200, then went back up to stronger than they started.  Neither Empire has gained or lost a colony.  So, I suspect the AI war behaviour is not acting correctly, how can two Empires remain at war so long without actually fighting each other?  This also benefits the Boskara because Ackdarian Democracy has very low tolerance for war weariness, so basically the Boskara are winning even though they are not fighting because of the Ackdarian colonies will be suffering war weariness.

...

Along the same lines:  In my current game the AI Empires seem to have become stagnant, they have not colonised any new planets for a long time and are all stuck at between 4 and 9 colonies.  I have recently gone into the diplomacy window and traded galaxy maps with the Ackdarians, this revealed that they had discovered 5 or 6 continental planets that they could have colonised.  Also, when in the trading window it appears that they have around 100000 credits in the bank (from clicking over and again on their money for trade until none is left), so why is an Empire with 5 or 6 continental planets in range, plus Ocean planets, and immense treasury, not expanding?  Their military power has stayed about the same too (even though they are in the above mentioned war), its almost like they lost the will to live or something [:D]

Thanks for that report Woodman, and the savegames which will be invaluable to analyze.

I'll take a look and see if there's anything that might be preventing expansion or that's stalling wars.

Thanks for those savegames!

[WoodMan]

Hey Elliot thanks for swift reply.  I continued playing for another hour or two (i lose track of time when playing [:D]) and the game has sort of kicked into life now, it's the year xx82 now and the Teekan faction claimed several new planets in a matter of minutes at one point, also the Naxxilians wiped the Shandar off of the map entirely using the Devastation Moon and also colonized a new planet or two. 

Even so, I think in the last official patch the Empires did expand faster, I recall Empires with 20-40 planets around 5 to 10 game years earlier than my current game.  I expected the Empires to be smaller this time around because I reduced the planet quality, but the old 10-40 planets down to 3-9ish is a much bigger drop than I expected.

Sorry to be a major pain, but I uploaded another save in the tech forum from this same game because I got a reproducable (unavoidable it seems) crash possibly caused by a civil war in one of the Empires.  Luckily the save is literally about 30 seconds before the crash occurs, so you might be able to get some use out of it [:D]

[hewwo]

ORIGINAL: elliotg

ORIGINAL: hidden_asbestos

This. This is more like it ! Thanks very much for these fixes, and I hope to see more UI stuff soon! [:D]

Please let us know of any specific items you'd like to see [:)]

Hi Elliot,

Really liking the new improvements! As to UI stuff: In the diplomacy screen (and in general) it is quite difficult to read the numbers because they're writen as 23123542 instead of 23.123.542

Also what really contributes to this game feeling unfinished is the fact that all the dialog screens (e.g. do you want to do this or that? yes/no) are standard windows dialogs! That must be the single biggest immersion killer I've ever seen in a game. Please change!!

thanks

[Pocus]

Hi,

Any ETA for serious modding support (i.e one shipset per race etc.) ?

[impact]

thanks, awesome update. i love the game even more now!
i had two issues with construction ships though:
1. i tried building a mining base and my construction ship was attacked and tried to flee. the base then sat there, not fully constructed and i couldn't resume construction (right-click showed no options). had to use the editor to delete it.
2. at one point two of my construction ships running on auto wanted to repair one of my ships. don't know if it was already dead or repaired, but they got stuck in this state. i was able to just give them new orders, so it was no big deal, but i had to notice it first, so they were stuck for like half an hour and my economy almost went down the drain.

sorry, no safe, but if i see it again, i will safe and upload.

[Wayston]

Is the AI's tax policy improved in these patches? In 1.0.4.9 and before I can get negative income that could be solved by the AI cranking up taxes.

[RViener]

Erik, It's about time for the next iteration. Any hints on date and substance?
Bob Viener