Current Human vs Human 41 campaign games

[kfmiller41]

here are the losses and production for the game thru turn 36 German front line strength is pretty bad considering what he is facing.[X(] Blizzard is still going on. I am on the outskirts of Mogilev!

[bwheatley]

It looks like with a little prodding from peeps my opponent will continue the game in the name of science

[bwheatley]

T40 Losses

[bwheatley]

t40 prod

[raizer]

one of the benefits of being soviet in a pbem games, is that the sov player can sir robin to the rear with stuff he wants to save and box car willie all the stuff he does not mind losing, forward, into the swamps.  I find it amazing that I can rail infantry with their HQs into choke point swamps hexes, and get them right in front of axis units,off load them and have them ready to fight.  Not sure how sir robin to the rear and box car to the front can happen simultaneously-I mean is their any congestion rules/variables that could be introduced to make it a bit more hard for the soviet player to flit all over the map on the same rail lines, axes of advances/retreats? 

Im deep into glantz on blau I II III and one the of the concerns Bock had was that the assigning of strategic/operational axes had to be planned in such a manner as to prevent armies/corps from competing for the same approaches to their separate objectives.  Only a limited numbers of roads/rail exist and "becoming neighbors" with fellow divisions and corps, while providing concentration/mass of effort was a good thing, it was many times outweighed by badness (lol) of competition for rail and roads and bridges.  And this is in summer 42, pretty much the high water mark in terms of organization/coordination for the german army-and they had problems-namely outside millervo, with crowding and congestion and competition for operational avenues of approach.  But in our game, in june/july 41, the soviets can pull off amazing feats of strategic movement and coordination, never suffering any ill effects of moving armies and their corps about the map, and more importantly, right out of the rail cars into fighting  positions in swamps, rough, heavy woods etc.  Seems to me this makes them a real tough out by late 42.

It seems a little off to me, and almost a little too easy, the way the soviets can move masses of men into strategic/operational locations with such ease all the while retreating at the same time.  

(maybe the closer you get to enemy units when moving toward them in rail, the more it costs in strategic movement to come out of rail, and maybe you forfeit all your MPs once you come out of rail/// and make it more expensive to go into rail, initiate rail movement, the closer you are to an enemy division)

[MengJiao]

ORIGINAL: raizer

one of the benefits of being soviet in a pbem games, is that the sov player can sir robin to the rear with stuff he wants to save and box car willie all the stuff he does not mind losing, forward, into the swamps.  I find it amazing that I can rail infantry with their HQs into choke point swamps hexes, and get them right in front of axis units,off load them and have them ready to fight.  Not sure how sir robin to the rear and box car to the front can happen simultaneously-I mean is their any congestion rules/variables that could be introduced to make it a bit more hard for the soviet player to flit all over the map on the same rail lines, axes of advances/retreats? 

Im deep into glantz on blau I II III and one the of the concerns Bock had was that the assigning of strategic/operational axes had to be planned in such a manner as to prevent armies/corps from competing for the same approaches to their separate objectives.  Only a limited numbers of roads/rail exist and "becoming neighbors" with fellow divisions and corps, while providing concentration/mass of effort was a good thing, it was many times outweighed by badness (lol) of competition for rail and roads and bridges.  And this is in summer 42, pretty much the high water mark in terms of organization/coordination for the german army-and they had problems-namely outside millervo, with crowding and congestion and competition for operational avenues of approach.  But in our game, in june/july 41, the soviets can pull off amazing feats of strategic movement and coordination, never suffering any ill effects of moving armies and their corps about the map, and more importantly, right out of the rail cars into fighting  positions in swamps, rough, heavy woods etc.  Seems to me this makes them a real tough out by late 42.

It seems a little off to me, and almost a little too easy, the way the soviets can move masses of men into strategic/operational locations with such ease all the while retreating at the same time.  

(maybe the closer you get to enemy units when moving toward them in rail, the more it costs in strategic movement to come out of rail, and maybe you forfeit all your MPs once you come out of rail/// and make it more expensive to go into rail, initiate rail movement, the closer you are to an enemy division)

I agree that a game with road and rail capacities would be interesting, but it would be fundamentally different from this game.

[notenome]

Railing Soviets to the front can be adressed at least partialy by some sort of readiness penalty, much like the motorized penalty that ocurs when you reactivate a unit. Railing units out on the other hand is a more complex issue.

[bwheatley]

t45 oob

[bwheatley]

t45 losses

[karonagames]

Thanks for posting the OOB numbers. The Axis effectives strength is 200K higher than the benchmark figures we have been using for the start of the 1942 campaign (3,013,936) and they have more 600 more AFVs(2862)and almost exactly the same number of Aircraft(2951). I've misplaced the Soviet numbers but It looks like they with be 1000k higher than the bench mark, their AFV numbers look really low and their aircraft really high.

Edit: any chance of posting the air losses? And did you play any house rules with air operations?

[Q-Ball]

ORIGINAL: BigAnorak

Thanks for posting the OOB numbers. The Axis effectives strength is 200K higher than the benchmark figures we have been using for the start of the 1942 campaign (3,013,936) and they have more 600 more AFVs(2862)and almost exactly the same number of Aircraft(2951). I've misplaced the Soviet numbers but It looks like they with be 1000k higher than the bench mark, their AFV numbers look really low and their aircraft really high.

Edit: any chance of posting the air losses? And did you play any house rules with air operations?

Interesting benchmarks. Look at his production pools, though, on T-40; I count over 1500 T-34s and KVs alone. Couldn't he quickly reach the benchmark just by creating a pile of Tank units? He certainly has the Tanks to fill them with.

[Flaviusx]

Yeah, the Soviet AFV numbers will adjust themselves once tank corps come into play and the Soviet player starts building tank battalions.

In early 1942 there's a tendency for obsolete models to linger in the existing tank brigades even if they are well below TOE, and this can distort the AFV numbers. The situation corrects itself in due course.

I'm actually mildly impressed with the German figures in this particular data set. They are very respectable.

[karonagames]

Correction: the German effectives numbers are 200k higher. The Sovs 1100k up on men, 2400 down on AFVs, and nearly 10k up on Aircraft.

[karonagames]

The Rumanians are down 50K, the Hungarians are up 50K. the Finns about level.

[raizer]

the sov aircraft #'s are insane-getting them all to airbases and just flinging them at the axis might be a game in itself

[bwheatley]

ORIGINAL: BigAnorak

Thanks for posting the OOB numbers. The Axis effectives strength is 200K higher than the benchmark figures we have been using for the start of the 1942 campaign (3,013,936) and they have more 600 more AFVs(2862)and almost exactly the same number of Aircraft(2951). I've misplaced the Soviet numbers but It looks like they with be 1000k higher than the bench mark, their AFV numbers look really low and their aircraft really high.

Edit: any chance of posting the air losses? And did you play any house rules with air operations?

I will post air for t50 tonight and losses and oob.

For houserules on air we said no strat air since it's broken right now. So we have both been not doing much with air. We both know there are issues with it so we feel it's almost a waste of time for anything besides recon/transport atm.

[bwheatley]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

ORIGINAL: BigAnorak

Thanks for posting the OOB numbers. The Axis effectives strength is 200K higher than the benchmark figures we have been using for the start of the 1942 campaign (3,013,936) and they have more 600 more AFVs(2862)and almost exactly the same number of Aircraft(2951). I've misplaced the Soviet numbers but It looks like they with be 1000k higher than the bench mark, their AFV numbers look really low and their aircraft really high.

Edit: any chance of posting the air losses? And did you play any house rules with air operations?

Interesting benchmarks. Look at his production pools, though, on T-40; I count over 1500 T-34s and KVs alone. Couldn't he quickly reach the benchmark just by creating a pile of Tank units? He certainly has the Tanks to fill them with.

Well i just got to 4/42 last night so i've started making tank corps. I don't have enough AP to do them all so it's 1 or 2 a turn. Hoping they will start sucking down my t34's and get them into the loop.

Before winter set in i was at <2000 tanks (iirc) the tanks have just been building up since winter and mud. I'm now finally ahead in tank production. But right now tanks really don't do much for me. I think with tank corps i'll have better luck though i've got some that have 40-50MP with full supply. So i might have a chance to use them to counter wherever ara commits for the 42 attacks.

I've pulled 5 tank corps to be an army in the north. I've got another 5 i'm trying to keep in center and i'll build up another 5 (another 6 months out probably) for south.

I want to use them as a reserve to help counter encircle whatever germany goes after. Also there are some spots where the line is pretty thing. I might use them to kill off a couple german units if i can.

[karonagames]

I think the soviet manpower is coming from not capturing the cities they got historically, as the casualty figures are close to or better than our benchmarks.

[bwheatley]

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Yeah, the Soviet AFV numbers will adjust themselves once tank corps come into play and the Soviet player starts building tank battalions.

In early 1942 there's a tendency for obsolete models to linger in the existing tank brigades even if they are well below TOE, and this can distort the AFV numbers. The situation corrects itself in due course.

I'm actually mildly impressed with the German figures in this particular data set. They are very respectable.

hehe please tell ara that. He feels it's all doom and gloom. We're really only going to play out to 53 so that you guys can get your numbers. He's still pissed off (and i agree rightly so) about his winter losses from units in good fortifications.

I'm hopeful that he'll start the 42 offensive and smash through my forts and then we'll keep playing.

[Flaviusx]

The early tank corps are pretty fragile. Use them with some care. The 42a TOE for them is complete crap compared to the later ones. You need to fit them out with attachments to make up for this, including at least 1 tank battalion, they are low in tank strength initially.

They're pretty good against Axis minors and overextended panzers early on. Give them some easy wins to train them up. They'll start off with disappointingly low CVs (3-4) but in a few months you might be able to tease out some 9+ point monsters.