1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids)

[Tarhunnas]

Outside Leningrad the struggle continues. The Reds managed to push back my leading division and restore supply to their surrounded units south of Leningrad. In my turn I push them back end expand the penetration, reseal the encirclement and press infantry forward.

Meanwhile a panzer corps have gotten into trouble at Staraja Russa. The idea was to explore the right hook, or put pressure on the Soviets to defend against it, but instead my panzer corps got cut off at Staraja Russa by unexpectedly numerous enemy forces. It was just barely that relief forces could push through to them. Well, at least it diverted Soviet forces from Leningrad, but all in all not a happy operation.

[Aussiematto]

Um - if I read it right, in the north there's an opportunity for the Finns to move through the no-attack line and cut off the northern Ladoga port. It's a little sneaky but, hell, germans need all the help they can to get Leningrad!

[Tarhunnas]

ORIGINAL: majeloz

Um - if I read it right, in the north there's an opportunity for the Finns to move through the no-attack line and cut off the northern Ladoga port. It's a little sneaky but, hell, germans need all the help they can to get Leningrad!

No, the map is after the German (and Finnish) move, I should have been clearer on that.

[Aussiematto]

ORIGINAL: Tarhunnas

ORIGINAL: majeloz

Um - if I read it right, in the north there's an opportunity for the Finns to move through the no-attack line and cut off the northern Ladoga port. It's a little sneaky but, hell, germans need all the help they can to get Leningrad!

No, the map is after the German (and Finnish) move, I should have been clearer on that.

No problems - just a thought. Finn sneak through is the perfect technique vs the last ladoga port -- just used it on Cpn Flam. Rather than attacking port directly, which is normally well defended, crush the unit next to it and let the finns advance through to link (see screen shots in Flam's AAR vs me -- and yes, he has allowed me to view said AAR since it is time-lagged).

returning to the bit above about withdrawing from the Dnepr. I think the Soviet move was correct strategically, but operationally, I'd have preferred to see him drop a small chequerboard off in front to slow down the advance.

Nasty near Dnepropetrovsk with those cut off panzers... happens to me all the time cos I get over-aggressive and forget he can create units out of thin air . Did you get them out and, in the end, is it better to advance slower, not get cut off but take 2 turns to get there? or try for it, get cut off, and then dig yourself out but, essentially, be further ahead?

[Tarhunnas]

ORIGINAL: majeloz

Finn sneak through is the perfect technique vs the last ladoga port -- just used it on Cpn Flam. Rather than attacking port directly, which is normally well defended, crush the unit next to it and let the finns advance through to link (see screen shots in Flam's AAR vs me -- and yes, he has allowed me to view said AAR since it is time-lagged).

There will be some Finn sneak through, or Finn sneak around actually, you will see it in the next installment, coming soon to an AAR near you. [:)]

ORIGINAL: majeloz
Nasty near Dnepropetrovsk with those cut off panzers... happens to me all the time cos I get over-aggressive and forget he can create units out of thin air . Did you get them out and, in the end, is it better to advance slower, not get cut off but take 2 turns to get there? or try for it, get cut off, and then dig yourself out but, essentially, be further ahead?

Yep, I got them out, see #39. I would say it is normally not good to get them cut off. In my experience it will take them a turn or so to recover supply and fuel wise, unless you can fly in massive amounts, and I think it will not be worth it in terms of territory gained. The above example was unnecessary and I badly underestimated enemy strength in the area. I should have known really, playing the Soviets in a parallel AAR, i know there are tons of cavalry appearing in this area at about this time. OTOH there were the riches of Dnepropetrovsk that lured me on, and if I had gotten a unit adjacent to the city to prevent evacuation of the industry, it would have been worth it.

The cases when I think it is worth it to get some panzers cut off is when I can take a city or do bold moves to wrong-foot the Sovs and their forces are weak, then I will take the risk. Even the trail of flipped hexes can be a big problem for the soviets in 1941. More of that to follow...

[Tarhunnas]

Turn 10. Leningrad, after German move, The going is tough, but the encircled Soviet divisions are eliminated, and progress is made to the east.

[Tarhunnas]

In the center, a bold advance led by the Grossdeutschland regiment captures Orel. That panzer corps had recieved a HQ buildup. They might be setting themselves up for being surrounded, but I sense enemy forces in the area are weak. In fact, the Soviet front in the center seems in some disarray, while they are much stronger in the south.

At Rzhev, the XXXIX panzer corps aims northwest, aided by infantry of the 9th army, to encircle the Soviet defenders of the bulge north of Smolensk, but the attempt peters out due to stubborn Soviet resistance and lack of fuel.

[Tarhunnas]

In the south, a scuffle in the Dnepr bend ends in a poorly executed encirclement, that the Soviets will easily break.

Also, Odessa falls to the efforts of the Rumanians (almost unadided by a German division, there as advisers). Every school child in Rumania recieves a bar of chocolate to celebrate the victory!

[Tarhunnas]

Lastly the body count after turn 10.

[Tarhunnas]

And production, filtered to German production.

[Tarhunnas]

Turn 11.

At Leningrad, the panzers finally break out in open country (by open meaning relatively undefended, not free of trees). It seems the fate of Leningrad is sealed. The enemy concentration at Novgorod which has been creating trouble for the LVII panzer corps at Staraja Russa are now themselves encircled!

[Tarhunnas]

Up to the northeast, the Finns are curling around the incomplete Soviet defences.

According to my opponent, this is not an oversight, but caused by lack of units to block the no move line.

[Tarhunnas]

Turn 11 in the center.

I have gassed up another panzer corps to follow up the advance to Orel last turn. The staggered HQ buildup yields spectacular returns. The Grossdeutschland et consortes were indeed cut off, but only by insignificant enemy forces which are easily brushed aside. A solid encirclement is made, and as an added bonus, 10th motorized division motors into Kaluga.

[Tarhunnas]

In the south, the encirclement in the Dnepr bend (broken, of course) is made more solid, and enemy forces frightened out of Zaporozhe, though we couldn't cross the river.

The problem here is that we have travelled obediently down the cul de sac into the Dnepr bend, and now we have to decide where to go and then cross the river. Alternatives are:

1. Aim for the Crimea.
2. Go straight east for Stalino.
3. Northeast for Kharkov, possibly aided by AGC.

I have not decided yet. Of course, there is always the alternative of compromising and trying for all three, and failing. [;)]

[Mynok]

He's weakest directly east and that is where the greatest rewards are. Seems pretty clear to me.

[Aditia]

Less small encirclements, more taking of terrain/cities/rail lines is what I would say judging from your screenies. Then again, my only experience with WitE is running away from soviet supermen in 1943 =P

[Tarhunnas]

Turn 12.

The north. The pieces of a grand plan falls in place. The XXXIX panzer corps at Rzhev was gassed last turn, and now makes a leap forward and captures Kalinin (with industry still there), Torzhok and Vyshni Volochek. At the same time panzers of 4th panzer group aims southeast. Alas, the big plan falters at the last moment. We are one tiny hex from the most stupendous encirclement of all time! Map after German moves turn 12.

[Tarhunnas]

In the center, Soviet resistance appears to be crumbling! Another panzer corps has had a HQ buildup and now hurls itself through the Soviet lines. Kursk and Tula is taken by panzer spearheads, with the trams still running and the defenders completely surprised (no units in either city). Better still, their industry had not been evacuated!

A couple of mid-size pockets are made. Uncertain if they will hold, but I judged the capture of Tula and Kursk worth it compared to an uncertain pocket.

[Tarhunnas]

In the south, the Dnepr is crossed in two places. Sort of a compromise between east and southeast. Soviet resistance appears suddenly weaker than just one or two turns ago.

[Tarhunnas]

And a loss count after turn 12.